New monitor - ViewSonic VP930 or Samsung 970P

[mauri]

As the summary says I can't decide between VP930 and 970P. mostly I'm worried about the backlight bleed of VP930 (and somewhere said not so good image quality) vs the dithering of 970P (it doesn't seem to be a true 8-bit panel). I had a Samsung 940B for few days, It was ok on gaming, but the image quality wasn't too good, colors were all washed out and the viewing angles were terrible. so I returned it.

Now I have narrowed my choice to these two, 19" is enough, they both cost the same, and are on a limit of how much I can put money on a monitor at the moment. I play daily, but I also do lot of 3D-animation and modeling work, and some visual work/designing. that is why I would like to have good colors and image quality. The monitor is coming to my home computer, so I can do all the heavy stuff at work, but I need a decent work backup/gaming monitor at home.

which monitor would suite me better, ViewSonic VP930 or Samsung 970P?

 

[Z33]

I have samsung 970.. here is my PROs and CONs

PRO

GREAT image quality - the colors are so vibrant.
Very little to no ghosting
no backlight bleeding
Good viewing angles.

CONs

height adjustment (doesnt go that high)
only 1 port for input. you cant have 2 things hooked up to it and switch between them (like xbox 360 and PC)

IMO if you want a monitor with good image quality and play games. This is a great monitor..... I love it

 

[Matthias99]

I like my VP930B. Only problem is that some (at least a couple months ago) were coming with horrible backlight bleeding issues. Mine has VERY minor bleeding (I can only really see it on a completely black background), but otherwise looks great. Ghosting is very minimal; it's a great gaming LCD as long as you get one that doesn't have backlight issues. THG says color accuracy is good when calibrated (as with most newer high-end LCDs).

It also automatically scales everything to native res (including distorting it if it's not a 5:4 signal), but I just run everything at native res anyway or have the video card scale it. Could be a problem if you want to hook up non-computer sources that can't output at 1280x1024.

 

[mauri]

Did the backlight bleeding get worse during the use or do you mean that different versions/revisions are bleeding worse? That is pretty scary to hear, sounds like a gamble to get a good one, or is ViewSonic having some sort of Quality issues lately?

I read the THG review, just hope that there would be more good reviews of those monitors. I also read just the opposite from BeHardware, which stated that the image quality of VP930 isn't that good at all.

I'm going to run the monitor at native resolution and I don't see any usage for more than one inputs at the moment. As long as it has DVI-connection, it's enough. Still, the dithering of 970P and backlight bleed of the VP930 are still giving me mixed feelings about both of them. It's so hard to decide.

Does anyone else have any experiences or opinions from these monitors?

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: mauri
Did the backlight bleeding get worse during the use or do you mean that different versions/revisions are bleeding worse? That is pretty scary to hear, sounds like a gamble to get a good one, or is ViewSonic having some sort of Quality issues lately?

Backlight issues normally don't get significantly better or worse over time. That would require... interesting things to be happening inside your display.

Some users were reporting bad bleeding on some VP930s right after they came out. Mine seems OK. I don't know if it was a problem with the initial production run, or if it may be ongoing. Keep in mind that ALL LCD monitors have SOME amount of backlight bleed; it's just part of the technology.

I read the THG review, just hope that there would be more good reviews of those monitors. I also read just the opposite from BeHardware, which stated that the image quality of VP930 isn't that good at all.

From the results, it sounds like what they were talking about is out-of-the-box color accuracy. This is pretty irrelevant IMO, since anyone who actually CARES about color accuracy will calibrate the display, and every monitor they tested was very good after calibration.

color test page

I'm going to run the monitor at native resolution and I don't see any usage for more than one inputs at the moment. As long as it has DVI-connection, it's enough. Still, the dithering of 970P and backlight bleed of the VP930 are still giving me mixed feelings about both of them. It's so hard to decide.

If you care about color accuracy, go for an 8-bit panel like on the VP930. I wouldn't want to try to do graphic design on a display that was dithering colors.

 

[mauri]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: mauri
Did the backlight bleeding get worse during the use or do you mean that different versions/revisions are bleeding worse? That is pretty scary to hear, sounds like a gamble to get a good one, or is ViewSonic having some sort of Quality issues lately?

Backlight issues normally don't get significantly better or worse over time. That would require... interesting things to be happening inside your display.

That would be something experimental and interesting..

Some users were reporting bad bleeding on some VP930s right after they came out. Mine seems OK. I don't know if it was a problem with the initial production run, or if it may be ongoing. Keep in mind that ALL LCD monitors have SOME amount of backlight bleed; it's just part of the technology.

I read the THG review, just hope that there would be more good reviews of those monitors. I also read just the opposite from BeHardware, which stated that the image quality of VP930 isn't that good at all.

From the results, it sounds like what they were talking about is out-of-the-box color accuracy. This is pretty irrelevant IMO, since anyone who actually CARES about color accuracy will calibrate the display, and every monitor they tested was very good after calibration.

I agree, and reading it again after your last post it gave me the same impression; that they were talking about out-of-the-box color accuracy. Calibrated monitors showed very good results.

color test page

I'm going to run the monitor at native resolution and I don't see any usage for more than one inputs at the moment. As long as it has DVI-connection, it's enough. Still, the dithering of 970P and backlight bleed of the VP930 are still giving me mixed feelings about both of them. It's so hard to decide.

If you care about color accuracy, go for an 8-bit panel like on the VP930. I wouldn't want to try to do graphic design on a display that was dithering colors.

So VP930 is true 8-bit panel? I was reading some forums and there were few remarks that even VP930 uses dithering. Is that possible, or has there been any signs of it? ViewSonic specs at their homepage show that VP930 comes with a true 8-bit panel.

 

[TheRyuu]

VP930b owner here too. Great monitor, aside from the already stated backlight bleeding issue.
Trust me, the bleeding isn't all that bad. You will ONLY notice it on a black backround, and even then you have to actually remember it's there to notice it (as in you forget about it over time).

Whether Viewsonic is a true 8 bit panel is still a mystery, some think it is, while other simply don't know. Still, it's a great monitor and I havn't noticed any dithering...yet.

 

[mauri]

Well, here ViewSonic states that the VP930 is a 8-bit monitor. Hopefully it is true. I tried to find more info about VP930 and the 8-bit and dithering, but couldn't find any. But if the VP930 dithers, is there point to choose it over 970P (6-bit vs 8-bit)?

Anyway it seems that I'm going to get VP930, have it in order, but I have to wait for few days to get it. I could get 970P immediately (which is tempting and my CRT is flickering), but I rather wait than regret.

 

[Stumben2]

I checked out the Samsung 970p and was really disapointed. I didnt think it looked good at all, contrast was horrible no matter what setting I tried. The hardware guy here at work told me the same thing. However, it is very fast for games you probably wont get any ghosting. I cant believe this thing is as expensive as it is.

If I were to get a Samsung it would be the 21inch ( I think 204b? ) thats a nice LCD. but many of their other models look like......dare I say close to crud.

The Viewsonic is nice, colors and contrast is beutiful, but it is slower than the samsung.

If I had to choose between the 2 at this point I would have to also see each of these perform with some intensive games but... unless the viewsonic has some serious tearing playing games, I Would go for it as the image quality at least I thought was way better than the 970p.

Mind you I was REAL close to ordering the 970p.

 

[mauri]

Seems that I'm sticking with my VP930 order. I also checked those 20" and 21" samsungs (204T and 214T) and 21" ViewSonic VP2130, they have nicer 1600*1200 resolution, but they are over my price range at the moment. I also don't want to invest over 500? to graphics card every six months to be able to game at native resolution.

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: mauri
Well, here ViewSonic states that the VP930 is a 8-bit monitor. Hopefully it is true. I tried to find more info about VP930 and the 8-bit and dithering, but couldn't find any. But if the VP930 dithers, is there point to choose it over 970P (6-bit vs 8-bit)?

Anyway it seems that I'm going to get VP930, have it in order, but I have to wait for few days to get it. I could get 970P immediately (which is tempting and my CRT is flickering), but I rather wait than regret.

The panel they use (I think it's an AU Optronics model) is an 8-bit-per-subpixel panel. There is no reason it *should* dither, and it does not appear that mine does. A 6-bit panel definitely will dither colors, at least sometimes (depending on exactly how it is implemented and what you are displaying).

Overall, I've been very happy with my VP930B.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mauri
So VP930 is true 8-bit panel? I was reading some forums and there were few remarks that even VP930 uses dithering. Is that possible, or has there been any signs of it? ViewSonic specs at their homepage show that VP930 comes with a true 8-bit panel.

You probably only read that here. We originally thought it was dithering, but it was found to be an electronics issue in the driver. I'm not sure if it's been fixed yet. I've only been able to reproduce it in my own theoretical tests.

I like my VP930b fairly well. As it has been said, there is backlight bleeding, but this thing is so contrasty it's acceptable to me. Response time is usually very fast. Bright colors are extremely vibrant and darker ones aren't far behind. The VP930b is a bit faster than the Samsung.

 

[mauri]

It was propably here where I read from the VP930 dithering. I read more later on (here) and discovered that it might been an electronics issue more than color depth. Thank you all for the feedback, it has been helpful. Now I feel that the ViewSonic VP930 is the right solution for me at the moment.

 

[xtknight]

Argh. Well now on ViewSonic Germany's site it says 6-bit + 2-bit FRC and on ViewSonic UK it says 8-bit. I don't know what to believe.

 

[mauri]

I didn't know which to believe either, I've just been so pissed about this thing for a while.

So I decided to call local ViewSonic Contact Center and they were quite surprised to hear someone asking about this, but after little waiting a really helpful guy in the customer service did some research for me (called to some tech guy in Germany) and confirmed to me that the VP930 is really a 6bit+2bit FRC monitor. After that even he didn't recommend that monitor for me.

They told me that the reason they are calling it 8-bit monitor, is that in most of the countries (atleast here in europe) the legislative rules don't require ViewSonic/manufacturer to tell the customers that the 8-bit in the VP930 is actually a 6bit+2bit FRC. So they can market as a 8 bit monitor.

I'm propably going with the 970P now, I can't find any other good alternatives at this price point.

edit: typos.

 

[mauri]

Somehow after thinking of this, the logic seems strange. 6bit+2bit FRC doesn't make up as a 8bit (16.7 vs 16.2 million colors)? Samsung uses 6bit+2*2 dither to achieve 16.7 million colors. Am I missing something?

I'm so lost with this decision at the moment.

 

[xtknight]

Try one of NEC's IPS-mode LCD screens if you care more about colors than speed. I think they'd suit your needs well and I'm fairly certain they are true 8-bit displays.

NEC LCD1970NX
NEC LCD1980FXi
NEC LCD1990SXi

2-bit FRC doesn't make it true 8-bit, just the fake 8-bit they love to advertise. It generates the colors artificially (by flickering). The Samsung doesn't really achieve 16.7m colors. Some of the colors have patterns on them. If you can afford it the Dell 2001FP looks best suited. It has quite a cheap price relative to other 20"ers. If you still want 19" and care more about speed then I'd say go with the Samsung 940B (the colors suffer mainly from contrast not color depth but still aren't that bad). If you wanted both color quality and speed then only 20" and up can offer that unfortunately.

 

[spectra9]

Originally posted by: mauri
I didn't know which to believe either, I've just been so pissed about this thing for a while.

So I decided to call local ViewSonic Contact Center and they were quite surprised to hear someone asking about this, but after little waiting a really helpful guy in the customer service did some research for me (called to some tech guy in Germany) and confirmed to me that the VP930 is really a 6bit+2bit FRC monitor. After that even he didn't recommend that monitor for me.

They told me that the reason they are calling it 8-bit monitor, is that in most of the countries (atleast here in europe) the legislative rules don't require ViewSonic/manufacturer to tell the customers that the 8-bit in the VP930 is actually a 6bit+2bit FRC. So they can market as a 8 bit monitor.

I'm propably going with the 970P now, I can't find any other good alternatives at this price point.

edit: typos.

I still don't understand why they state that the VP930B is 8-bit, while in fact it's 6-bit + 2-bit FRC. Why not just state it as such from the beginning like the VX924 in this doc

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: spectra9
I still don't understand why they state that the VP930B is 8-bit, while in fact it's 6-bit + 2-bit FRC. Why not just state it as such from the beginning like the VX924 in this doc

I wouldn't trust that doc either. An 8-bit TN? WTH? Yeah how deceptive of them listing one LCD's specs as 6+2 bit and the other as 8 bit when they're the same. :roll:

 

[mauri]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Try one of NEC's IPS-mode LCD screens if you care more about colors than speed. I think they'd suit your needs well and I'm fairly certain they are true 8-bit displays.

NEC LCD1970NX
NEC LCD1980FXi
NEC LCD1990SXi

2-bit FRC doesn't make it true 8-bit, just the fake 8-bit they love to advertise. It generates the colors artificially (by flickering). The Samsung doesn't really achieve 16.7m colors. Some of the colors have patterns on them. If you can afford it the Dell 2001FP looks best suited. It has quite a cheap price relative to other 20"ers. If you still want 19" and care more about speed then I'd say go with the Samsung 940B (the colors suffer mainly from contrast not color depth but still aren't that bad). If you wanted both color quality and speed then only 20" and up can offer that unfortunately.

It's a shame to admit, but there is no single place which would sell NEC LDC -monitors around here. And that said the Dell are Overpriced here also (I live in Finland!), 2001FP costs around 800? here (200? - 300? over my budget).

If I want color quality It seems like i need to go with either Eizo S1910-K (19") or with the Samsung 204T (20"). Both of those are within my price range (over it, actually). I had the Samsung 940B for a while, but I wasn't satisfyed with that. Especially the view angles were terrible. 19" Dells also use TN -panels these days and they cost more than VP930 around here.

If I need speed (and good/not perfect image quality) it seems that I need to choose from either Samsung 970P or ViewSonic VP930. Or buy Either 19" Eizo, Samsung 204T (8-bit hopefully?) or bigger. I'm interested with the Eizos offereing, but BeHardware states that the Eizo Is too slow on gaming, so it is now to gaming vs. image quality. I might need to go with image quality to be satisfyed, but I'm not sure still cause I do game quite a lot.

I think that if the VP930 has a good image quality and good colors, it will be enough (unless the 970P is better, I need help on this one!) for now, and I start to save money for a good 21"-monitor. Does anyone have any knowledge from either Eizo S1910-K or Samsung 204T?

 

[xtknight]

One user reported that he has less backlight bleeding and no color flicker pattern problems on his VP930b so I'd go with that for now before you go insane. The 204T will probably have better colors slightly, but will be slower. The VP930b has good, high-contrast colors and is fairly fast.

 

[mauri]

Yes I'm getting the VP930 (I value my sanity ). It seems as the best allround option at the moment in that pricepoint. In the future I'll get a better monitor when it is needed (next big upgrade). Thank you for the help xtknight.

 

[mauri]

Finally got this monitor (VP930), good image quality, mild blacklight bleeding (so far the "x-shape", I have to look it more critically later, definately more bleeding than the Samsung 940B had). Most I'm pissed of the 5 defective pixels the panel has (I knew it might have some, it's a LCD, but five?). I called to the local contact center and they told me that they want me to send them pictures by e-mail (with digital camera, that I don't have) from the defective pixels before they can take the matter any further. This thing is just going as the wrong way as it can go.

After so much time I spend to choose the right monitor, now this. Man i'm so dissapointed with ViewSonic at the moment.

Does this go beyond the ISO 13406-2 class II specifications, that they have been advertising for? I have 2 permanently red pixels, one blue, one black and one white. all permanently lighted as mentioned.

 

[zephyrprime]

Fice is a lot of dead pixels. Even my 4 year old planar only has 3 stuck pixels.

 

[xtknight]

Five dead pixels? Wow. Mine has had absolutely none. Sorry to hear about that. I'm not sure if five is within that class II thing.