Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Well read on in my postI mean Mars and Venus, and of course we shouldn't forget our own oceans while we're at it.
I see now
Absolutely nothing - just thought I would share my love for Bush
I see now
Absolutely nothing - just thought I would share my love for Bush
Lithium381
Lifer
- May 12, 2001
- 12,452
- 2
- 0
it wouldn't necessarily have to make direct contact....assuming there are other intelligent forms out there, a broadcast would work, get it into SOME vicinity of a solar system and if they are there to see it, great, multiple frequencies, different types of patterns, etc.......wouldn't have to go directly to a planet and attempt to establish communication
:laugh: yeah i'm sure the aliens would appreciate that!
as for the OP's suggestion, what's the point? Until we have a way to make a probe go faster then 38,000MPH (the current speed for Voyager 1), it's going to take a long long time just for the probes to exist our Solar system. by the time they do, we'll probably invent faster engines.
They can be programmed to terraform, build bases and the equipment needed. They can be used to make a shell around the sun with a radius equal to our orbit. We would need anti-gravity capability, but we could harness vast amounts of energy from the sun and increase our living area on an epic scale.
They can also falter and turn our end of the milky way into grey goo.
videogames101
Diamond Member
- Aug 24, 2005
- 6,783
- 27
- 91
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 19
- 81
I've heard that the first life forms to encounter the Voyager and Pioneer probes will probably be humans in the future. We might still have ancient tales of robotic explorers being launched from Earth, touring the planets using gravity. They could probably run back-calculations on amazingly powerful supercomputers, and figure out likely launch dates, and calculate trajectories. Do a quick hypermegaquantum subspace sweep of the entire solar system out to 5000 AU's - Oh, there they are!Originally posted by: Mojoed
Even if mankind launched millions and millions of probes in every possible direction, it would take our lifetimes for most of them just to exit the far reaches of our puny solar system which itself is a speck of a speck of a speck of a spec of an ordinary galaxy which there are billions of.
I'll support your idea when we can equip these probes with warp engines.
My idea though for a quick probe out of here - a fission-powered probe launched using the rocket that shot New Horizons out of here at really high speed. It would then deploy a solar sail, and use that to accelerate out of the solar system. Once too far to use the sail, it'd kick on its reactor to full power, and active an ion engine drive.
Still nowhere near light speed, but pretty darn fast anyway.
Of course, the Prometheus project got cancelled, dammit, so no fission reactors in space for a long time. Just have to rely on slow plutonium decay.
And that sucks for probes like New Horizons - that plutonium is decaying the entire time the probe is in transit to Pluto. With a fission reactor, the fuel could sit there waiting until arrival at the destination. Then you'd have relatively fresh reaction material, and a LOT of power to work with. Probes these days work with a few hundred watts of power - NH will have about 200 watts from its RTG's by the time it makes it to Pluto, which is just crazy. What do you want to run, a loaded PC, or a sophisticated spacecraft the size of a piano? A fission reactor would afford kilowatts of power to work with. Oh well.But if this probe is in the middle of nowhere, where's it going to get the raw materials for replication? It'd have to seek out a planet or nebula for materials to convert into new probes. Best case scenario would be a solar powered Star Trek-style replicator. Then it'd still have to wait until it's near a star to produce more probes. Once the probes are constructed, they're going to need to be fueld as well - even more resources are needed. Seems it'd be a lot easier to devote resources to a powerful launch system for high-speed explorers either here or on the Moon. Besides, we could then put those self-replicating robots to work right here, building the launching system.
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 19
- 81
I think I read that our most powerful transmitters would only manage a signal that would dissipate to an almost indiscernable level by the time it'd reach another star system. And again, there's the frequency problem - if they're not listening at the right frequency, the signal wouldn't be detected. Even a very high-power laser beam would only be detectable if they happened to be looking in the right direction at the right time, assuming we were even pointing it in the right direction.
DrPizza
Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Just a bizarre thought, but since we don't see any Von Neumann probes running around, we can probably assume one of three things:
1. We're the only intelligent life form in the universe
2. We're the only "advanced" life form around, or at least there haven't been any much more sophisticated life forms that have been in existence long enough to get a Von Neumann probe to us
3. The whole probe thing is a dumb idea.
Now, assuming there have been many advanced, intelligent civilizations, then we can probably argue that one of them (just like our own) is intelligent enough to build a Von Neumann self-replicating machine, but stupid enough to actually do it. Since we don't see any around, this is a contradiction. Therefore there are no other stupid civilizations that think they're intelligent. And, the really intelligent civilizations know better than to want to have anything to do with us.
1. We're the only intelligent life form in the universe
2. We're the only "advanced" life form around, or at least there haven't been any much more sophisticated life forms that have been in existence long enough to get a Von Neumann probe to us
3. The whole probe thing is a dumb idea.
Now, assuming there have been many advanced, intelligent civilizations, then we can probably argue that one of them (just like our own) is intelligent enough to build a Von Neumann self-replicating machine, but stupid enough to actually do it. Since we don't see any around, this is a contradiction. Therefore there are no other stupid civilizations that think they're intelligent. And, the really intelligent civilizations know better than to want to have anything to do with us.
Who's to say life exists in multiple beings? Life can exist such, as ...
A giant blob of some matter (jelly) that just lives on and on forever.
If you're talking about intelligent beings that can potentially interact with humans...that's a reeeeeeaaaaallllly probability. But, hey. Humans exist. So why not?
In the rare event that we conclude 'f--- this, we're spreading,' we should just gather mutliple forms of bacteria and small lifeforms, put em in a capsule, add some subsistence components (say, a slice of pizza ) and blast a bunch of em off into space. Eventually, in a million+ years, at least ONE probe probably hit a planet or something and the bacteria manage to carry on the planet.
We can also, launch genetic garbage (hmmm...let's say, a rotting corpse of something. ). Easier for bacteria to develop, and will be easier to adapt to their new foreign environment.
A giant blob of some matter (jelly) that just lives on and on forever.
If you're talking about intelligent beings that can potentially interact with humans...that's a reeeeeeaaaaallllly probability. But, hey. Humans exist. So why not?
In the rare event that we conclude 'f--- this, we're spreading,' we should just gather mutliple forms of bacteria and small lifeforms, put em in a capsule, add some subsistence components (say, a slice of pizza
) and blast a bunch of em off into space. Eventually, in a million+ years, at least ONE probe probably hit a planet or something and the bacteria manage to carry on the planet. We can also, launch genetic garbage (hmmm...let's say, a rotting corpse of something. ). Easier for bacteria to develop, and will be easier to adapt to their new foreign environment.
We could even make a kit that contains a habitat that slowly changes itself , over a billion years, to adapt to the new planetary environment. Hmm...
Would need to do this with something higher powered than we have on earth today operated from the dark side of the moon to have any real chance, and even then if there is intelligent life out there able to pick it up, odds are it will not be for tens of thousands of years. For some reason, I just do not feel the closest systems that show that they might support life are capable of supporting intelligent life.
Here in Alaska on the darkest days in the remote country you can see UFO's with the nekkid eye. Odds are they are man made. But it's the damnedest thing you'll ever see. A bunch of small dimmer 'stars' going to a bigger 'star' that can stay there doing it for hours, then all of a sudden, they will all converge into the big 'star' which will then zoom away like a shooting star (looks like same speed), only while it is zooming away, it turns. And I dont mean a small turn, but something large like as if gravity is effecting it.
Takes many days to spot these. Myself, a family member, 2 friends, and some strangers that I never knew all seen these. On quite a few occasions on the same night in the same place in the sky.
Alien UFO's? Doubtful. If they were in another solar system or even less than 4 lightyears away, these would have to be friggin huge and bright. I just can not fathom anything that can do that. If they are alien and within our solar system, they move so fast one would think with relative safe deduction that they would hit a rock and go boom.
More likely I think those lights are human made stuff within our earths orbit. With a standard telescope I cant make anything out other than the light. But then again the hubble can not even pinpoint close enough to see anything man made on the moon even with the perfect lighting and no atmospheric interference.
Draw your own conclusions.
Speaking of sending out stuff in space and bombing, whenever the world decides to disarm their nukes, why not send the nukes off into space? Time the nukes to go off right before the circuitry and everything corrupts...Wouldn't it be great to see a man-made explosion in the solar system?
...Let's nuke the moon!!1
...Let's nuke the moon!!1
Jeff7
Lifer
- Jan 4, 2001
- 41,596
- 19
- 81
The other possibility is, maybe we're a million years off. Maybe aliens visited regularly in the distant past, before humans could walk upright. Seeing that we were primitive, they thought nothing of walking among us. But they got bored eventually - maybe Cancun, Mexico was just getting worn out as a tourist spot, so they found some other planet. In another million years, someone else will stop by.Originally posted by: DrPizza
Just a bizarre thought, but since we don't see any Von Neumann probes running around, we can probably assume one of three things:
1. We're the only intelligent life form in the universe
2. We're the only "advanced" life form around, or at least there haven't been any much more sophisticated life forms that have been in existence long enough to get a Von Neumann probe to us
3. The whole probe thing is a dumb idea.
Now, assuming there have been many advanced, intelligent civilizations, then we can probably argue that one of them (just like our own) is intelligent enough to build a Von Neumann self-replicating machine, but stupid enough to actually do it. Since we don't see any around, this is a contradiction. Therefore there are no other stupid civilizations that think they're intelligent. And, the really intelligent civilizations know better than to want to have anything to do with us.
We're here in a galactic blink of any eye. Not only is it being in the right place, but also being in the right time. Big Universe, with lots and lots of time on its hands.
Most stuff on Earth comes with a 1 year warranty. Maybe furniture would have a 30 year warranty. I doubt that even RAM makers' "lifetime warranty plan" would cover 1 billion years.
Launching bacteria to other planets could even be seen as a hostile act - we don't generally like biological weapons here on this planet. A benign algae to us may take hold on another world, and completely innundate the local ecology.
Of course, taking hold there would mean that the atmosphere would need carbon dioxide, and the nearby star would have to put out the right wavelengths of light. There'd also need to be some kind of UV shielding component in the atmosphere. Earth life has adapted to an Earthy environment. We'd need to launch a host of our finest extremophiles, and that certainly wouldn't seem suspicious.
"Hmm, an alien probe laden with 153 different biological agents. You think maybe they're trying to make really sure that they kill everything on this planet?"
Better idea - if the fissile material can be used in nuclear reactors, send it there. Reprocess the waste if possible, and then launch the remainder into the sun.
Making first contact with an alien race in the form of a nuke might not be good.
"Hey Zordar, look at this artifical device. What do you think these symbols mean? 5. 4. 3. 2. 1. And now an audible beeping--"
BOOM
You know, because all of our ICBM's have digital readouts and alarms when they're ready to go off.
Well, winter is nearly here (officially is). But the best time is in late Nov-Jan when we only have ~4 hours of daylight where I live. If I can manage to get a camcorder that can film in sub-zero temperatures I'll see if I cant film one of these. Assuming of course I can even find them. Takes tons of patience staring at one point in the sky. Once found they are not hard to refind even after going into lighted area's.
Only reason I came across it my first time was I was out in the country snowmachining and ran out of fuel. One of my studs shot off the track and into the fuel tank draining it rather fast. I decided rather instead of walking off with the possibilty of getting lost/injured in the dark which was coming very soon that I would just make a makeshift camp right next to my snowmachine. While lying there bored and too cold to even spank it I was just watching the night sky keeping an eye open for any satellites when something in the corner of my eye caught my attention. Something moved into a 'star' then went away very soon after. I was able to watch it 'buzz' around in one point of the sky then go back to the star. I finally lost track of it so then I focused on the star. To my surprise there was about 9 or 10 other ones doing the same thing as that first dim one I seen. At first I thought I was suffering from hypothermia. But quickly dismissed that as I was not having hypothermia symptoms. All of a sudden, all the dim lights converged on the brighter star then it shot away looking like a shooting star and going just as fast as one, but turning while doing so. Looked like from point of origin to where I lost site in less than 2 seconds, it turned over 55 degree's.
I asked around in my family if anyone ever seen any UFO's all said no but one. I asked him what he seen and he described the same thing I seen. Certain that that was too bazaar on the next cloudless night after repairing my snow machine I went out a group of 6 friends to see if we can spot these again. We could not. So again following another cloudless night a couple weeks later 2 of us set out again. This time we scored. We were able to spot it happening in action then we got the bejeebus scared out of us when we heard some noises in the snow and then got a few flashlights pointed at us. Turned out to be some ice fishing campers who seen our snowmachine lights all turn off after we were doing some various stunts. They thought we had a big accident. Anyways we told them what was going on and pointed into the sky where that stuff is. They found them in relative short order and we were all watching for ~ 2 hours when the lights took off again. This one unlike the last one which turned about 55 degrees made over a 180 degree turn. Most definately not a shooting star or a weather balloon and all of us seen it.
Since that night, I have only seen them a total of 8 other times. Only one of those times did I have a telescope. And as I said earlier that only yielded brighter (and more) stars. I searched for other sightings like this on the internet and came across none. While the search did make some reference to stars looking to be buzzing around, none of them said anything about major movement away from where it was buzzing around. Nor was it in such a huge area of buzzing, mainly within what would appear as a couple millimeters to a square cm. These were clearly in the range of '1-5' inches in the night sky.
In all it would probably be easier to spot these if it were not for those damned northern lights. They get really bright at times here in Alaska. Unlike the rare colorful counterparts in the lower 48 that can let off some really neat colors. here they are all green. On a rare occasion you might see some purpolish red or even more rare white. But they (northern lights) are just so common. lol
But yeah, someone needs to shoot one of these down. If it is a alien life, were finally not alone. If it's human technology then some governments needs to give the world technology for their cover-ups. Frankly I think those lights are human tech.
Only reason I came across it my first time was I was out in the country snowmachining and ran out of fuel. One of my studs shot off the track and into the fuel tank draining it rather fast. I decided rather instead of walking off with the possibilty of getting lost/injured in the dark which was coming very soon that I would just make a makeshift camp right next to my snowmachine. While lying there bored and too cold to even spank it I was just watching the night sky keeping an eye open for any satellites when something in the corner of my eye caught my attention. Something moved into a 'star' then went away very soon after. I was able to watch it 'buzz' around in one point of the sky then go back to the star. I finally lost track of it so then I focused on the star. To my surprise there was about 9 or 10 other ones doing the same thing as that first dim one I seen. At first I thought I was suffering from hypothermia. But quickly dismissed that as I was not having hypothermia symptoms. All of a sudden, all the dim lights converged on the brighter star then it shot away looking like a shooting star and going just as fast as one, but turning while doing so. Looked like from point of origin to where I lost site in less than 2 seconds, it turned over 55 degree's.
I asked around in my family if anyone ever seen any UFO's all said no but one. I asked him what he seen and he described the same thing I seen. Certain that that was too bazaar on the next cloudless night after repairing my snow machine I went out a group of 6 friends to see if we can spot these again. We could not. So again following another cloudless night a couple weeks later 2 of us set out again. This time we scored. We were able to spot it happening in action then we got the bejeebus scared out of us when we heard some noises in the snow and then got a few flashlights pointed at us. Turned out to be some ice fishing campers who seen our snowmachine lights all turn off after we were doing some various stunts. They thought we had a big accident. Anyways we told them what was going on and pointed into the sky where that stuff is. They found them in relative short order and we were all watching for ~ 2 hours when the lights took off again. This one unlike the last one which turned about 55 degrees made over a 180 degree turn. Most definately not a shooting star or a weather balloon and all of us seen it.
Since that night, I have only seen them a total of 8 other times. Only one of those times did I have a telescope. And as I said earlier that only yielded brighter (and more) stars. I searched for other sightings like this on the internet and came across none. While the search did make some reference to stars looking to be buzzing around, none of them said anything about major movement away from where it was buzzing around. Nor was it in such a huge area of buzzing, mainly within what would appear as a couple millimeters to a square cm. These were clearly in the range of '1-5' inches in the night sky.
In all it would probably be easier to spot these if it were not for those damned northern lights. They get really bright at times here in Alaska. Unlike the rare colorful counterparts in the lower 48 that can let off some really neat colors. here they are all green. On a rare occasion you might see some purpolish red or even more rare white. But they (northern lights) are just so common. lol
But yeah, someone needs to shoot one of these down. If it is a alien life, were finally not alone. If it's human technology then some governments needs to give the world technology for their cover-ups. Frankly I think those lights are human tech.
Even if they don't turn the galaxy into grey nano-ooze, self-replicating probes could (through evolution by faulty copying) end up as Fred Saberhagen's Beserkers, bent on destroying all life in the universe. D'oh!
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