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New Medical Studies Show Chiropractic Care Helps, More Cost-Effective

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lxskllr said:
I don't trust chiropractors. I know people who love them, and I also know people who've been screwed up by them. I'd go to one as a last resort, but that's it. Back surgery's out for me except for very dire circumstances.
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that's a shame.

that's like saying "i won't see a dentist ever because i don't trust them. i'll go to one after my teeth have rotten out of my face as a last resort. getting dentures is out of the question for me, except for very dire circumstances."

why wait until it's too late for a chiropractor to help keep you out of the operating room?
 
eits said:
lol any study that shows something that opposes your warped point of view is, apparently, not a decent study... even if it's done by the supposed opponents of the supported field.

seriously, what's your boner with downing chiropractors about? there's got to be some sort of back-story (no pun intended).
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I don't have any issue with chiropractic care except there is no study that shows any efficacy of chiropractic care.

You are no better than a homeopathic pusher. The difference is that homeopathic remedies don't do as much harm as you do.

If you have back problems and want REAL help go to real physical therapists.....
 
daw123 said:
My colleague put his back out by bending to pick something up from the passenger footwell of his car. He was in agony for days.

He started seeing a Chiro (and paying for it out of his own pocket) once a fortnight, then it became monthly and now it is every two months.

He is not in any discomfort any more, so something must have worked.
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that's one of my favorite words to use 🙂
 
Codewiz said:
I don't have any issue with chiropractic care except there is no study that shows any efficacy of chiropractic care.

You are no better than a homeopathic pusher. The difference is that homeopathic remedies don't do as much harm as you do.

If you have back problems and want REAL help go to real physical therapists.....
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lol what?

wait a second... you think we harm people? why would insurance companies cover our services if we did? do you even realize that iatrogenisis is the third leading cause of untimely death in this country?

and these REAL studies further support that people get more REAL for back problems from chiropractic care than they do from physical therapy.
 
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eits said:
that's a shame.

that's like saying "i won't see a dentist ever because i don't trust them. i'll go to one after my teeth have rotten out of my face as a last resort. getting dentures is out of the question for me, except for very dire circumstances."

why wait until it's too late for a chiropractor to help keep you out of the operating room?
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The thing is, I've never known anyone who went to a dentist, and then couldn't eat afterward. I have known people who went to a chiro, and their back was worse off than when they went. I prefer taking the familiar path. I can at least mostly function as is(for now).
 
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Codewiz said:
If you have back problems and want REAL help go to real physical therapists.....
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Actually, I've seen some of those too and in fact a lot of the stuff they had me do is the same stuff the guy I'm seeing recommends. I guess perhaps a classical chiropractor only plays around and pushes things here and there. I can't really speak to that, though.
why would insurance companies cover our services if we did?
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I also would like to know that if chiro is complete crap why would insurance companies cover it? I pay a specialist fee to see one, same as if I'm seeing an ortho. They are not the same people but if i wanted to see a witch doctor i'm sure bluecross wouldn't cover it.
 
lxskllr said:
The thing is, I've never known anyone who went to a dentist, and then couldn't eat afterward. I have known people who went to a chiro, and their back was worse off than when they went. I prefer taking the familiar path. I can at least mostly function as is(for now).
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it's common to feel sore after your first time getting an adjustment. there's a dissonance between the adjustment towards proper alignment and how your body used to be. muscle memory tries to get you back to how you were before the adjustment. a lot of times, inflammation at the joint capsules happen because capsular adhesions are broken off and cause inflammation. after the next adjustment or so, it gets absorbed and goes away and your body recognizes what the chiropractor's trying to do and doesn't fight it. it's kinda like dusting off a bookshelf... well, a lot of times, the dust goes right back to where it was, just not as much. the only way to get it all off is to dust it off a couple times.
 
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Skoorb said:
Actually, I've seen some of those too and in fact a lot of the stuff they had me do is the same stuff the guy I'm seeing recommends. I guess perhaps a classical chiropractor only plays around and pushes things here and there. I can't really speak to that, though.
I also would like to know that if chiro is complete crap why would insurance companies cover it? I pay a specialist fee to see one, same as if I'm seeing an ortho. They are not the same people but if i wanted to see a witch doctor i'm sure bluecross wouldn't cover it.
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The insurance question is easy to understand if you look into it. It has nothing to do with efficacy.

Skoorb if you are really interested here is a good place to start.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4068

Here is a chiropractor that knows that the chiro part is total BS. The physical therapy isn't.

The difference here is that eits has every reason to continue supporting his BS pseudoscience. He makes money at it. I don't.
 
I never had any use for chiropractic even though my wife has benefited greatly (no more migraines). Until last month when I did something to my back shoveling snow. After a week it was just as bad as the first day. I could get a free initial exam so my wife talked me into going.

The chiro did some tests, said she could help me, and I said I would try a couple visits. By the end of the week I was 80% pain-free. So while I can only speak to my own experience, it definitely helped me.

Would it have gotten better on its own? Who knows, but I spent a week in agony and wasn't willing to wait and see.
 
kranky said:
I never had any use for chiropractic even though my wife has benefited greatly (no more migraines). Until last month when I did something to my back shoveling snow. After a week it was just as bad as the first day. I could get a free initial exam so my wife talked me into going.

The chiro did some tests, said she could help me, and I said I would try a couple visits. By the end of the week I was 80% pain-free. So while I can only speak to my own experience, it definitely helped me.

Would it have gotten better on its own? Who knows, but I spent a week in agony and wasn't willing to wait and see.
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I was uncharacteristically taken down by major back pain a few months ago. I mean it felt bad, really something bad. But after a couple of days of taking it easy it really did buck up. BTW I think I got it because I am basically a lazy slouch and don't work out enough.

codewiz so this guy mixed stuff, that's kind of what my guy is doing at the moment, too. He did nothing with my spine FWIW. He did try some lower body adjustments but I should note that he honed in immediately on the imbalances in my body that I had not yet vocalized, finding which foot sank lower than the other, which calf was bothering me, which foot pronated more, which hip was not as high as the other. Now, diagnosis is only half the battle, but none of the MDs I saw even with MRIs diagnoses me very well at all, frankly.
 
Codewiz said:
The insurance question is easy to understand if you look into it. It has nothing to do with efficacy.

Skoorb if you are really interested here is a good place to start.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=4068

Here is a chiropractor that knows that the chiro part is total BS. The physical therapy isn't.

The difference here is that eits has every reason to continue supporting his BS pseudoscience. He makes money at it. I don't.
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it's also been shown through research that there's an apparent difference between people who receive sham chiropractic adjustments and actual chiropractic adjustments. that's how we know that it's not just placebo... and that's why bad chiropractors, like the dude you linked, who fake it 'til they make it fail and find a different career path.

with that said, i am a fan of physical therapy as well. however, i think that the reason it helps is because it helps reinforce the chiropractic adjustment. these days, an increasing percentage of the population has terrible core strength because modern technology, although aimed at making our lives more convenient, makes things more inconvenient for their biomechanics and core strength. without core strength, chiropractic adjustments alone won't help anything. you'll keep having to come back. so, that's why i have my patients do some therapy exercises in office and then i have them do it at home once they know how to do it unsupervised.

is it the therapy that's fixing the problem? no. it's just supporting the fix.
 
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Skoorb said:
... he honed in immediately on the imbalances in my body that I had not yet vocalized, finding which foot sank lower than the other, which calf was bothering me, which foot pronated more, which hip was not as high as the other. Now, diagnosis is only half the battle, but none of the MDs I saw even with MRIs diagnoses me very well at all, frankly.
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Physicians are indeed trained to do those very things, but unfortunately many don't practice how they were taught? Why? It's easier, and more "cost-effective" to spend 10 minutes with a patient, and then prescribe an anti-inflammatory and/or analgesic. Is that a good thing? No, I don't believe it is but unfortunately that's what "healthcare" has done to the practice of medicine.
 
There is a difference between making people "feel better" and treating their medical problem.

I would "feel better" if I got a massage twice a week for a couple months, too. And let's not forget how important it is for the patient to BELIEVE you are doing something beneficial to them, whether or not you actually are. Belief is powerful. There are three words you'll never hear chiropractors say: "I don't know."

Chiropractors will always tell you 'Oh, I know exactly what the problem is. Its just a matter of your whatchajigger being misaligned with the whatchamacallit causing disharmonious regulation of the humor, thus making your "core" weak (whatever the hell a "core" is). We'll have you fixed up in no time.'

This is MUCH more reassuring than the honesty that doctors are trained to have (e.g. I am not sure what's wrong with you, but we'll start treating the most likely explanation for these symptoms, and if that doesn't work, move on to the next most likely explanation. Don't know when you'll get better, could be tomorrow or never. Just can't say for sure."

Wow, that sure does instill confidence, doesn't it? Makes you just want to leap into a chiropractors office, even though its the most honest answer.
 
TheVrolok said:
Physicians are indeed trained to do those very things, but unfortunately many don't practice how they were taught? Why? It's easier, and more "cost-effective" to spend 10 minutes with a patient, and then prescribe an anti-inflammatory and/or analgesic. Is that a good thing? No, I don't believe it is but unfortunately that's what "healthcare" has done to the practice of medicine.
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vrolok, you and i rarely see eye-to-eye on chiropractic things, but i'm in complete agreement with you on this post. the same goes for chiropractic care. there are many chiropractors out there who spend maybe 2-3 minutes with a patient before they tell them to go to the front desk to schedule another appointment. they just adjust and that's it. it's wrong. it gives us a bad name and it perpetuates a negative image of chiropractors. that's why i'm glad that more of those kinds of chiropractors (typically the older generation of chiropractors) are dying off, going out of business, or slipping up and losing their licenses.
 
tcsenter said:
There is a difference between making people "feel better" and treating their medical problem.

I would "feel better" if I got a massage twice a week for a couple months, too. And let's not forget how important it is for the patient to BELIEVE you are doing something beneficial to them, whether or not you actually are. Belief is powerful. There are three words you'll never hear chiropractors say: "I don't know."

Chiropractors will always tell you 'Oh, I know exactly what the problem is. Its just a matter of your whatchajigger being misaligned with the whatchamacallit causing disharmonious regulation of the humor, thus making your "core" weak (whatever the hell a "core" is). We'll have you fixed up in no time.'

This is MUCH more reassuring than the honesty that doctors are trained to have (e.g. I am not sure what's wrong with you, but we'll start treating the most likely explanation for these symptoms, and if that doesn't work, move on to the next most likely explanation. Don't know when you'll get better, could be tomorrow or never. Just can't say for sure."

Wow, that sure does instill confidence, doesn't it? Makes you just want to leap into a chiropractors office, even though its the most honest answer.
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you have no idea what you're talking about, do you? did you even click the links on the op?
 
eits said:
vrolok, you and i rarely see eye-to-eye on chiropractic things, but i'm in complete agreement with you on this post. the same goes for chiropractic care. there are many chiropractors out there who spend maybe 2-3 minutes with a patient before they tell them to go to the front desk to schedule another appointment. they just adjust and that's it. it's wrong. it gives us a bad name and it perpetuates a negative image of chiropractors. that's why i'm glad that more of those kinds of chiropractors (typically the older generation of chiropractors) are dying off, going out of business, or slipping up and losing their licenses.
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To be honest, I don't have anything against chiropractic treatment, per se. Hell, from time to time I use OMT to assist in treating certain things. Sometimes I'll have to jump on you from time to time, because we definitely clash on certain issues, but I think we probably see eye to eye more than I'd make it known.
 
tcsenter said:
Ehh, you know that I do. We've had a few go-arounds about Quackopractors and it never comes out well for you.
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just because you and i had a few go-arounds in the past because we don't see eye-to-eye doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

what is it that you do for a living?
 
This is like an oil changer at Jiffy Lube posting multiple threads trying to convince everyone that he is a real mechanic. Nobody cares, just change the freaking oil.

Unfortunately for the chiro's, with the recent downturn in the economy the insurance adjusters in the accident industry have started telling the lawyers they aren't paying for any more than a few chiro visits from now on. If the client isn't going to an orthopedic doctor or a physical therapist, they are refusing to pay. My firm has all but switched to Ortho and PT completely. The adjusters just laugh at the chiro bills now and tell us to go file suit.

It was a good racket while it lasted but the jig is up.
 
There are MANY chiropractors out there who are scammers. That's a shame. However, there are some who know what they're doing. I know a chiropractor who approaches things much as a physician would. He uses x-rays to make rule out certain problems (damaged discs, scoliosis, kyphosis, lordosis, pelvic tilt, etc) and combines what symptoms are explained to him. Understanding the anatomy, it's very easy for things to shift and impinge upon nerves. There are several muscles and fascia groups that attach to the vertebrae that can pull them askew. Chiropractors utilize high level (level five) joint mobilizations to correct this. Physical therapists can only use up to level four. Chiropractors are very skilled in that aspect. There are also chiropractors who specialize in ART (active release techniques), proved in science, that allows significant improvement for certain problems. There are a lot of chiropractors that are a joke. I get that. However, there are some that approach it as diagnosticians and professionals who do a phenomenal job preventing injury of the spinal cord.
 
Jeff7 said:
I was going to post that very same link.
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i don't really understand the significance of that link, considering this is a thread about how chiropractic beat out physical therapy and medical treatments for back pain...

are you saying that the medical treatment failed because it was placebo? are you saying it didn't do well in the study because it wasn't placebo? i don't really understand wtf your point is...
 
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