New medical marijuana policy issued

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Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Tab
Are you going to back up any of your claims? As him being socially conservative, uh so?

His stance on the drug war. That's enough. I didn't say he was a social conservative, I said compared to someone like me, he's socially conservative. Obviously compared to many Republicans, he's less socially conservative.

Pfft. Okay, so OJ Simpson isn't that bad of a guy, I mean when you compare him to Jeffery Dahmer. :roll:

Do you get my point now? Yes, Clinton wasn't a reformer but to my knowledge he wasn't actively pushing for worse or extended the Marijuana prohibition. We all know having a Republican in the White House is much worse for Drug Reform than any Democrat.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yes, when it came to drugs Clinton was a dunce just like Edwards, both of whom agree that having sex with girls or other women than their wives does send the right message. How do those two swine look anybody in the face.

They probably just look in their face. :D
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Tab
Are you going to back up any of your claims? As him being socially conservative, uh so?

His stance on the drug war. That's enough. I didn't say he was a social conservative, I said compared to someone like me, he's socially conservative. Obviously compared to many Republicans, he's less socially conservative.

Pfft. Okay, so OJ Simpson isn't that bad of a guy, I mean when you compare him to Jeffery Dahmer. :roll:

Do you get my point now? Yes, Clinton wasn't a reformer but to my knowledge he wasn't actively pushing for worse or extended the Marijuana prohibition. We all know having a Republican in the White House is much worse for Drug Reform than any Democrat.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yes, when it came to drugs Clinton was a dunce just like Edwards, both of whom agree that having sex with girls or other women than their wives does send the right message. How do those two swine look anybody in the face.

They probably just look in their face. :D
Look up Tip O'Neil, Len Bias and minimum mandatory sentencing.
Look up federal property seizure law expansion under clinton.

Then come back and tell us that the dems had nothing to do with today's war on drugs.

Also I believe last year there was a big federal vote on MJ - can't recall exactly what it was (cursed short term memory loss). If all dems voted yay and republicans voted nay, it would have passed. Guess what the outcome was.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Originally posted by: Patranus
Don't really care.
I am glad to see the federal government back off and let states what they want to do.
I however don't think that much will change. The federal law clearly states that marijuana is illegal and law enforcement will still enforce the law. When the next president comes into office everything might change so an investment in infrastructure would be stupid.

Not really sure what this does for the separation of powers.....if a president can just decide what laws can be enforced after those laws are passed by congress, what is the point of congress?

You make a good point here, In particular, the bolded...

I for one am glad there is some sanity approaching in regard to marijuana. Its been long overdue.

It is completely understandable that there is not sufficient time and resources for the Federal government to pursue every violation of law. But for the Executive Branch to decide as a policy that it isn't going to enforce certain laws - whether it be on medical marijuana, or regulation of the financial industry, or the Clean Air Act to certain industries is a constitutional matter. It amounts to an executive veto on laws passed by Congress long after the period that the Constitution allows a proposed law to be opposed by the Executive.

If the Obama Administration wishes to pursue this policy, Congress should pass a law to that effect. Obama should ask Congress to change the law. For reasons of separation of powers, and so the next President doesn't just unilaterally reverse the policy the instant he gets inaugurated. Although getting congress to "change" these laws is wishfull thinking. I can almost hear the "Soft on crime!"s from here. I want these laws to be changed by Congress and not just ignored, but it became obvious long ago that federal legislators are not up to dealing with this issue.

If the Executive decides not to apply the law to a whole set of activities as a blanket rule - or even in a wink wink nudge nudge sort of way - then it allows the executive to disregard the enforcement of laws at its convenience. If an Administration happens to like the coal industry, for example, should they be granted leeway not to apply the Clean Air Act to the worst polluters?

If the current law says that the federal government has to bust these marijuana sellers, what are they going to do? Pass another law that says the same thing, but also "but this time you can't ignore it!"? If the President has free reign in determing which laws are enforced, how does Congress override him?

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. On one hand, the federal laws against intrastate marijuana use are clearly unconstitutional and hence invalid. On the other hand, the majority of federal law is unconstititonal and I find it silly that people only invoke constitutional arguments on a few pet issues.

So obviously it's a good thing that, in itself, the federal government is not going to be enforcing an unconstitutional law. On the other hand, if we freely allow the president to pick and choose the laws we enforce, that's way too much more given to the executive.

It's a shame that repealing laws is such a rarity in our system. We just keep building laws on top of laws, and ultimately we end up with less freedom and more government intrusion.

If a President can simply ignore the law, the what is the point of the Congressional veto override power? Say Congress passes a law against eating ice cream, the President vetos it, and then Congress overrides his veto. Congress wins, right? Not so fast, says the President. He directs the Justice Department not to enforce laws against ice cream.

Let's be a little more direct: when Bush issued signing statements saying he didn't feel bound to carry out certain laws, there was quite a chorus here (myself included) saying that the Constitution requires the President to follow the law. Now that a lot of people like the result of this decision by the Obama Administration, the concerns about the Constitution aren't nearly as great. So it sounds like the outrage depends on whose ox is being gored.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,576
6,713
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
In a case where an individual experiences extreme pain and their meds are OxyCodone and or Oxymorphone but they could use MJ and reduce the amount of the other 'dope' is that a viable consideration?

How about folks who take meds that have side effects like constant nausea but they have to take those meds anyhow... some like Dexamethasone, a steroid used to deal with the auto immune system in RA and other disease but using those pills from MJ or smoking it allows them to eat?

I don't know about you folks but I'm all for using a better substance to increase quality of life IF it does!

Do you realize what would happen, if, in the process of feeling better, people lost interest in being cogs in the economic wheel and spent more time smelling roses? These assholes could ruin my plan to make millions selling them garbage and my prison stock would be worthless.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,576
6,713
126
Originally posted by: TechBoyJK
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Drug laws will change if the Republican party dies as it should. Drug laws are designed to create a criminal community the right can point their God finger at and feel holy as they tremble in terror, on the advise of party leaders, that drug users are out to destroy their fundy religion and pervert their children.

By creating this terror they also create the desire to take drugs just so they can feel a bit of novelty and thrill in being evil.

Repression creates desire to engage in what is repressed. Objectivity allows for a rational assessment of any real dangers that drugs of various kinds impose. Without some hidden itching to rebel against a sick repressive upbringing, there will be little need for healthy minds to use drugs. For the healthy minded, life is the trip, generally speaking, I think.

I'm a republican christian and I think mj should be legal. Many christians I know feel the same. I don't feel the need for things to be illegal just so I can point my finger. I'm not sure what the point of your post was. Not trying argue, but I don't understand where you are coming from. I know 'some' extremist conservatives might feel the way you describe, but I hardly think that's the driving force behind the way the laws are.

Maybe you are a real Christian and not a Fundie wacko.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Do you realize what would happen, if, in the process of feeling better, people lost interest in being cogs in the economic wheel and spent more time smelling roses? These assholes could ruin my plan to make millions selling them garbage and my prison stock would be worthless.

Most who'd use the stuff for the right reasons can't work anyhow. It won't alter that reality much but I know someone who would rather suffer than increase a dosage of Pain med... That is nutty, I guess, but it is a reality for some..
It would not affect your prison stock at all.. hehehehehhehe the Court ordered the release of 40,000 inmates already... let the dopers out first.. hehehehehhe and keep the really bad folks in..

 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: BMW540I6speed
Originally posted by: Patranus
Don't really care.
I am glad to see the federal government back off and let states what they want to do.
I however don't think that much will change. The federal law clearly states that marijuana is illegal and law enforcement will still enforce the law. When the next president comes into office everything might change so an investment in infrastructure would be stupid.

Not really sure what this does for the separation of powers.....if a president can just decide what laws can be enforced after those laws are passed by congress, what is the point of congress?

You make a good point here, In particular, the bolded...

I for one am glad there is some sanity approaching in regard to marijuana. Its been long overdue.

It is completely understandable that there is not sufficient time and resources for the Federal government to pursue every violation of law. But for the Executive Branch to decide as a policy that it isn't going to enforce certain laws - whether it be on medical marijuana, or regulation of the financial industry, or the Clean Air Act to certain industries is a constitutional matter. It amounts to an executive veto on laws passed by Congress long after the period that the Constitution allows a proposed law to be opposed by the Executive.

If the Obama Administration wishes to pursue this policy, Congress should pass a law to that effect. Obama should ask Congress to change the law. For reasons of separation of powers, and so the next President doesn't just unilaterally reverse the policy the instant he gets inaugurated. Although getting congress to "change" these laws is wishfull thinking. I can almost hear the "Soft on crime!"s from here. I want these laws to be changed by Congress and not just ignored, but it became obvious long ago that federal legislators are not up to dealing with this issue.

If the Executive decides not to apply the law to a whole set of activities as a blanket rule - or even in a wink wink nudge nudge sort of way - then it allows the executive to disregard the enforcement of laws at its convenience. If an Administration happens to like the coal industry, for example, should they be granted leeway not to apply the Clean Air Act to the worst polluters?

If the current law says that the federal government has to bust these marijuana sellers, what are they going to do? Pass another law that says the same thing, but also "but this time you can't ignore it!"? If the President has free reign in determing which laws are enforced, how does Congress override him?

I'm not sure where I stand on this issue. On one hand, the federal laws against intrastate marijuana use are clearly unconstitutional and hence invalid. On the other hand, the majority of federal law is unconstititonal and I find it silly that people only invoke constitutional arguments on a few pet issues.

So obviously it's a good thing that, in itself, the federal government is not going to be enforcing an unconstitutional law. On the other hand, if we freely allow the president to pick and choose the laws we enforce, that's way too much more given to the executive.

It's a shame that repealing laws is such a rarity in our system. We just keep building laws on top of laws, and ultimately we end up with less freedom and more government intrusion.

If a President can simply ignore the law, the what is the point of the Congressional veto override power? Say Congress passes a law against eating ice cream, the President vetos it, and then Congress overrides his veto. Congress wins, right? Not so fast, says the President. He directs the Justice Department not to enforce laws against ice cream.

Let's be a little more direct: when Bush issued signing statements saying he didn't feel bound to carry out certain laws, there was quite a chorus here (myself included) saying that the Constitution requires the President to follow the law. Now that a lot of people like the result of this decision by the Obama Administration, the concerns about the Constitution aren't nearly as great. So it sounds like the outrage depends on whose ox is being gored.

The President can in effect void any law by pardoning anyone convicted under that law. Clearly, that isn't going to happen. But as a practical matter, the President can tell his Attorney General what his (the President's) priorities are. Obviously, the President isn't going to object to prosecution of serious crimes. But there are many more crimes than there is the ability to pursue every wrong-doer, and that's where the President's priorities come in.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,576
6,713
126
Originally posted by: LunarRay
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Do you realize what would happen, if, in the process of feeling better, people lost interest in being cogs in the economic wheel and spent more time smelling roses? These assholes could ruin my plan to make millions selling them garbage and my prison stock would be worthless.

Most who'd use the stuff for the right reasons can't work anyhow. It won't alter that reality much but I know someone who would rather suffer than increase a dosage of Pain med... That is nutty, I guess, but it is a reality for some..
It would not affect your prison stock at all.. hehehehehhehe the Court ordered the release of 40,000 inmates already... let the dopers out first.. hehehehehhe and keep the really bad folks in..

Yeah, but how many really need it. Maybe three people. The rest are only there to get high. And you know perfectly well that even one whiff of that stuff and a week later you're addicted to the really hard drugs, like chocolate covered raisins.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: shira

The President can in effect void any law by pardoning anyone convicted under that law. Clearly, that isn't going to happen. But as a practical matter, the President can tell his Attorney General what his (the President's) priorities are. Obviously, the President isn't going to object to prosecution of serious crimes. But there are many more crimes than there is the ability to pursue every wrong-doer, and that's where the President's priorities come in.

Well, what about State Law? Article 2, section ll deals with crimes against the US. He can Pardon or grant Clemency without review! Would you support his usurping Governor power or are you talking strictly Federal Law?
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yeah, but how many really need it. Maybe three people. The rest are only there to get high. And you know perfectly well that even one whiff of that stuff and a week later you're addicted to the really hard drugs, like chocolate covered raisins.

Yeah... well, I think I'm addicted to banana splits and I'm not overweight... hehehehehe

We pump Oxy and that other stuff aaaa... what the heck is it?.. less powerful stuff anyhow like there is no tomorrow. That could be addictive if you take it to get high but I know some who been taking it for years and say Pain or Pill... Pill or Pain... what is the difference.... Pain or MJ... MJ or Pain...

I believe only those who benefit from it should get it.. just like an Rx... but, I also would rather see MJ on the shelf than booze in any form...

 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Tab
Are you going to back up any of your claims? As him being socially conservative, uh so?

His stance on the drug war. That's enough. I didn't say he was a social conservative, I said compared to someone like me, he's socially conservative. Obviously compared to many Republicans, he's less socially conservative.

Pfft. Okay, so OJ Simpson isn't that bad of a guy, I mean when you compare him to Jeffery Dahmer. :roll:

Do you get my point now? Yes, Clinton wasn't a reformer but to my knowledge he wasn't actively pushing for worse or extended the Marijuana prohibition. We all know having a Republican in the White House is much worse for Drug Reform than any Democrat.

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Yes, when it came to drugs Clinton was a dunce just like Edwards, both of whom agree that having sex with girls or other women than their wives does send the right message. How do those two swine look anybody in the face.

They probably just look in their face. :D
Look up Tip O'Neil, Len Bias and minimum mandatory sentencing.
Look up federal property seizure law expansion under clinton.

Then come back and tell us that the dems had nothing to do with today's war on drugs.

Also I believe last year there was a big federal vote on MJ - can't recall exactly what it was (cursed short term memory loss). If all dems voted yay and republicans voted nay, it would have passed. Guess what the outcome was.

Learn to debate. I'm not looking up arguments for you nor did I say the dems had nothing to do with TWD.
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Tab
Learn to debate. I'm not looking up arguments for you nor did I say the dems had nothing to do with TWD.

Yes, Clinton wasn't a reformer but to my knowledge he wasn't actively pushing for worse or extended the Marijuana prohibition.

Well, he didn't extend the drug war. After all, he's rather liberal.

Clinton was a supporter? He may have not changed laws but he certainly wasn't as supporter.
:confused:
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
76
Originally posted by: alchemize
Then come back and tell us that the dems had nothing to do with today's war on drugs.

Where did I say that today's democrats had nothing to do with today's war on drugs? Oh wait I didn't...
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,486
0
0
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: alchemize
Then come back and tell us that the dems had nothing to do with today's war on drugs.

Where did I say that today's democrats had nothing to do with today's war on drugs? Oh wait I didn't...
Glad you agree :thumbsup: