New M3 worth it?

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< M3s are in demand and subject to some heavy dealer markup...and basically, you take what they got or you don't get anything. I wouldn't be caught dead paying any more than $35K for an M3...from an objective standpoint, the best value is the Z06 corvette, followed by the firebird and camaro. Also, Ford is supposed to be rolling out their supercharged SVT Cobra for 2003 for around $35K, making it another great value. Yes, all the cars I mentioned are american, but a value is a value. With imports you pay more and get less...in terms of performance, a lot less in some cases.

-= SsZERO =- >>



The thing is, there is nothing "objective" about a person's choice of car. Obviously the market does not think the Camaro and Firebird are so fabulous, since the Mustang has outsold the Camaro and Firebird combined for years. The Z06 is unquestionably a beast, but I would still take an M3 for the overall driving experience it offers. If "objective" performance is what you are after, get a motorcycle!

 

[Passions]

60k for a BMW? Why? Just get 5 of these babies.

Text

 

[SsZERO]

I wasn't talking about a person's choice of car, I was talking about which car offers the best performance for the dollar...and the Z06, Camaro/Firebird and Mustang all over a lot of performance for a lot less than any other performance car. It is not up to debate...I got my WS6 for $29K brand new. Right off the showroom floor, I had it running 12s in the 1/4 mile. It also has superb handling capabilities, and in stock form the M3 that costs twice as much won't be walking away from the WS6 in a road course...in the 1/4 mile, the M3 falls behind quite a bit.

But you are right in saying that a person should choose the car they like, and if they can afford it, get it. Unfortunately, a lot of people think that because they got an expensive car it is the best thing on 4 wheels...that is far from the truth. There is no better feeling in the world than outdoing cocky import car drivers on road courses with a WS6 -- a car that some would say does not even qualify as sports car. And they KNOW they don't got anything on me in the 1/4 mile. heh heh

-= SsZERO =-



<< The thing is, there is nothing "objective" about a person's choice of car. Obviously the market does not think the Camaro and Firebird are so fabulous, since the Mustang has outsold the Camaro and Firebird combined for years. The Z06 is unquestionably a beast, but I would still take an M3 for the overall driving experience it offers. If "objective" performance is what you are after, get a motorcycle! >>

 

[amgkid]

Well ok, here's the deal
My dad wants to buy a BMW and he's been looking at the 745i. Yes, he can afford it but he doesn't like the design very much. We saw it at the dealer and the exterior is pretty awkward. He'd rather buy a relatively cheaper car now and pass it down to my mom or me in a 3-4 years and see what the market has at that time.

That said, my dad would not want a Camaro or any type of American muscle. He's 55 and I don't think he'd feel right in one of those. Even an M3 is a little young for him but I think it's classier than an American sports car. Corvettes are cool to me but my dad doesn't like the interior and again, 4 seats is a must.

BTW, we have to get the SMG because my mom can't drive stick in case she ever needs it. So SMG or an autobox is a must.

 

[SsZERO]

So you want a luxury car with some balls, is basically what you're saying? How about a Lexus GS400? The new Maximas are really getting nice as far as performance and features go, but they still lack in the styling department.

-= SsZERO =-

 

[urameatball]

I don't know if it's out in North America...
but audi RS4.

if I remember the specs correctly...
it's an Audi S4 wagon... with close to 400bhp... so it's pretty much the ultimate sleeper for the family side, and the insane side of you.

well, I downloaded the test drive video off morpheus and it definately looks like LOTS of fun.
just look up rs4 under movies and you might find a 'driven' or 'top gear' movie... simply the best test drive you'll ever see

 

[mudkiller]

M5!

 

[CocaCola5]

The casualty with buying a nice M3 is you'll still get beat handedly by any recent Corvette out there.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< The casualty with buying a nice M3 is you'll still get beat handedly by any recent Corvette out there. >>



In all fairness I for one have virtually zero interest in street drag racing - this is not a player for me, or, I suspect, most would-be M3 buyers.

 

[Draco]

<< Well ok, here's the deal
My dad wants to buy a BMW and he's been looking at the 745i. Yes, he can afford it but he doesn't like the design very much. We saw it at the dealer and the exterior is pretty awkward. He'd rather buy a relatively cheaper car now and pass it down to my mom or me in a 3-4 years and see what the market has at that time.

That said, my dad would not want a Camaro or any type of American muscle. He's 55 and I don't think he'd feel right in one of those. Even an M3 is a little young for him but I think it's classier than an American sports car. Corvettes are cool to me but my dad doesn't like the interior and again, 4 seats is a must.

BTW, we have to get the SMG because my mom can't drive stick in case she ever needs it. So SMG or an autobox is a must. >>




BMW M5. Best 4 door car ever made. Of course it's 75k, but your Dad must be loaded, so get that. What a car! If the M5 is "too much" then step down to the 540i preferably with the 6-spd.

Of course on the other side of the pond I'd go with the Lexus GS430.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< BMW M5. Best 4 door car ever made. Of course it's 75k, but your Dad must be loaded, so get that. What a car! If the M5 is "too much" then step down to the 540i preferably with the 6-spd.

Of course on the other side of the pond I'd go with the Lexus GS430. >>



I would basically concur with this, though amgkid has already noted that they are interested in a car with an automatic. The 540i is a beast, and is definitely superior to the M3 for carrying four people. As a practical matter it will be tough to get an M3 for anything close to sticker, whereas the 540i should be attainable for at or slightly below MSRP. The A6, with either the 4.2L V-8 or 2.7L turbo 6, is really nice as well.

 

[snowdogg187]

not worth it at all, unless your a billionaire and have like 20 cars like I would

 

[Kadarin]

<< BMW M5. Best 4 door car ever made. Of course it's 75k, but your Dad must be loaded, so get that. What a car! If the M5 is "too much" then step down to the 540i preferably with the 6-spd. >>



I never liked the 7 series, and I also do NOT like how the seats feel in the 3 series (yes, even the M3). However, I do like the 540i a lot (and Dinan makes a turbo kit for it, I believe)..

 

[SCSIfreek]

whoever thinks they could get a car like the M3 for 35K is smoking some serious sh|t. Personally I would say get whatever that fits your budget. If you're loaded and got money to burn get the M5. else if you're not as loaded as you think then the M3 is a great car. Nothing beats the Ultimate Driving Machine. <---- Bmw driven!!! I really enjoyed the BmW 540 but its feels more of a older person's.

 

[Flat]

I dont have proof, but over here in the UK atleast the E55 handily outlaps M5s on most tracks. Cant really give much more info than that, they dont completly pulverise them just maybe a few tenths to a second difference average. Of note, M-Bs tend to break in really well, might have been a factor in that test you cite. E55 is quite a bit faster than CLK55 too.

 

[cipher00]

No. go for an S4 (Avant!) and save yourself about $20g.

 

[LAUST]

<< No. go for an S4 (Avant!) and save yourself about $20g. >>


Tho I still think 40K is TOO much for a CAR I'd definantly agree, 60K is obsured

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Kinda funny that VW will most likely kick BMW's butt soon. The W12 now holds the 24 hours record.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< Kinda funny that VW will most likely kick BMW's butt soon. The W12 now holds the 24 hours record. >>



Kick their butt in what sense? The 24-hour record is impressive but I doubt it will sell many cars. I like VE but think they have gone off the deep end in putting the W-8 in a Passat - none of their existing models are really in direct competition with BMW at this point (at least not in the American market), but I can't imagine too many people will want to pay $40K plus for a Passat rather than getting a 3-series or A4/S4.

 

[KokomoGST]

Geez... 60K+ for a M3?!?! Man, you guys are right about dealer markup! Even with the F1 style SMG, it shouldn't be more than $50K tops! You might be able look into a Hartke tuned 3-series for that price... though those things are monsters compared to the polished M3s, good luck trying to tame one of those. Definite go with an S4 if it's that much cheaper, especially since you'll run much better in the winter with your Quattro.

The M3 does indeed understeer, but that's why it's so easy to induce oversteer with it (with DSC off of course). Most definitely easier than the S4 to do since you have RWD. I'm not sure about the new 2002 S4 since I haven't heard anything about it. But those 3-series car are kinda cramped in the back. The M3 is definitely more of a driver's car though IMHO, it's not just a suped up 3-series. That's like saying an EVO is a suped up Lancer.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This is why

Passat

Remember that VW IS Audi and VW proper and Bugatti and a few other things. The car described in the above link is not just a car with a new engine. It is a significantly improved version. I own a B5.5 wagon, and have driven several German cars as well. The Passat is a good car that with the right tweaks could be great. This will be serious competion for BMW.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< This is why >>



I know that VW and Audi are one, but to me that does not cure the fundamental defect of a $40,000 Passat. I don't doubt it will be a great car, but since it is hamstrung by a mandatory automatic tranny (admittedly a state-of-the-art one), it is still slower (or at least less quick) than its direct competitors, the S4 and 330i, both of which will likely hold their value better and (if history is any precedent) offer a more exciting driving experience. To each his own, but I think this is a dubious strategy by VW. Ironically, I have less difficulty with their much costlier prototype V-12 GT supercar, because that is a model that, like the NSX or S2000, is clearly unrelated to its much cheaper siblings within VW's production.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A standard six-speed manual gearbox (a five-speed Tiptronic is optional) sends power through VW's 4Motion all-wheel-drive system

From the above link.
My Passat is also a manual (5 speed though)

You are correct if you ment the 4motion was only in automatic.

Dont get me wrong, BMW makes a fine car and always will. But for my needs, a car that costs less that has more and can smoke many of the 3 series, seems like a contender. Compare it to an M5? No way. But Audi has a thing or two in the works. In any case I cant see how this competition is going to hurt either of us

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

<< A standard six-speed manual gearbox (a five-speed Tiptronic is optional) sends power through VW's 4Motion all-wheel-drive system

From the above link.
My Passat is also a manual (5 speed though)

You are correct if you ment the 4motion was only in automatic. >>



My mistake - I apologize. I knew the existing Passat was available with a stick (I nearly bought one before getting my Maxima SE, and I can't imagine buying any car with an automatic), but I had thought based on the early press that the W-8 would be auto-only - I guess I need to work on my reading comprehension!

In any event I agree that competition is a good thing, and if this spurs BMW et al to greater engineering heights, so much the better!

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Hell with it DV, let's go to Germany and pick up one of each Always wanted to go on a long driving tour there.