New, lower prices on RX 570 cards... new cards coming real soon now?

[VirtualLarry]

I remember when I bought my RX 470 card(s). I tried three times to purchase various brands of RX 470 4GB cards, around the $150-160 price-point, when the RX 570 cards had just come out, or were imminent to be released.

Now, Newegg has the Gigabyte RX 570 4GB cards for $150 right now. That's the same price that the RX 470 4GB was, on fire-sale. Could these be being fire-saled, to make room for newer cards (12nm GPUs)?

I know it's speculation, but I think it's fairly well grounded.

 

[mdram]

interweb search yields end of 2018, october, and soon

so yeah, maybe, maybe not, sooner or later

you know how it goes

 

[Guru]

They are so cheap because in over 2 years people have bought the GPU's they've needed, with no new mainstream GPU's out yet and no performance uplift, the current gen mainstream are getting cheaper because less and less people are buying them.

Next AMD GPU is Vega 20 on 7nm, a workstation and AI card. Don't expect any new desktop GPU from AMD until at least Q2 2019.

 

[maddie]

They are so cheap because in over 2 years people have bought the GPU's they've needed, with no new mainstream GPU's out yet and no performance uplift, the current gen mainstream are getting cheaper because less and less people are buying them.

Next AMD GPU is Vega 20 on 7nm, a workstation and AI card. Don't expect any new desktop GPU from AMD until at least Q2 2019.

There are many on much slower cards than a RX 570. The market for upgrades is still substantial. Don't use this forum as a guide to the general populace.

 

[VirtualLarry]

There are many on much slower cards than a RX 570.

The really crazy thing is, GTX 1050 ti costs MORE now, than the RX 570 4GB. Both have 4GB of VRAM, but the AMD card is way better. Still, NVidia hangs on to market share. Sad, really.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Is it possible that the RX 570 4GB cards could go under, like, a good 20% under, $150? IOW, do you all think that the market is saturated enough, especially with all of the used mining cards available, that it will drive new retail prices down further?

And would any of you consider buying a couple more of these cards, to do DC and mining during the winter months, to heat my small apt.? If I could get them for $120-150? (I think, at $150, I'm on the fence, but for $120, I'd definitely go for it if I had the money available.)

 

[happy medium]

I'm hearing they will be about 15% faster and use less power.
The 680 series that is.
I think they are called the Polaris 30?

 

[beginner99]

I'm hearing they will be about 15% faster and use less power.

I'm not sure how the faster will actually work except in some edge cases. RX580 is already heavily memory bandwidth limited and higher memory clock doesn't really seem an option. I doubt AMD will invest into gddr5x or gddr6 memory controller for polaris? Or a wider bus? So maybe in some scenarios 15% is possible with higher gpu clocks while in others the effect will be 0.

 

[VirtualLarry]

New Polaris supposed to be GDDR6. If so, I expect that it will be quite a bit less bandwidth-constrained.

 

[happy medium]

Question is, will be a refresh or rebrand?
Here is the rumor I read.
https://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-polaris-30-gpu-family/

 

[VirtualLarry]

We fully expect the Polaris 30 lineup to be slightly faster but also slightly cheaper than the already cheaper RX 500 series making it ideal for entrants to PC gaming and/or gamers on a budget that can’t afford to spend an arm and a leg on a PC build.

They seem to think, Polaris 30, will be cheaper? With GDDR6, I doubt it. And if it doesn't have GDDR6, for cost reasons, then it seems that the upgrade would be hardly worth it, due to the aforementioned bandwidth constraint working against higher core clocks, if implemented, without increased bandwidth.

But... if they can pull this off (GDDR6 and cheaper), more power to them. I'll be patiently waiting in line to purchase.

 

[happy medium]

They could use 10gbps gddr5 that's a 20% bandwidth improvement.
Raise the core clocks some and they will get the 15% performance improvements.
With the 12nm process the cards will be more efficient also.

 

[beginner99]

But... if they can pull this off (GDDR6 and cheaper), more power to them. I'll be patiently waiting in line to purchase.

And why would the do that? Would make no sense business wise.

They could use 10gbps gddr5 that's a 20% bandwidth improvement.
Raise the core clocks some and they will get the 15% performance improvements.
With the 12nm process the cards will be more efficient also.

true but it's little benefit for a large investment. The only reason this can pay off for AMD in the big picture is due to the WSA.

 

[Guru]

AMD don't have a revamped polaris architecture, thus going for a tiny process shrink would be worthless to them, just the shift would probably cause for more defective dies due to the process being less mature and this they would lose any advantage from going to the process shrink.

In terms of numbers 12nm vs 14nm would provide at best a 15% power reduction or about a 7-10% performance increase, in real world that amounts to like 2-4 more fps.

This is not happening.

 

[tajoh111]

Considering it is a single brand of RX 570 that is on sale and the rest are typical 200-280, I don't think that inference is correct.

I.e If you see 15 data points where 1 data point doesn't line up with the rest, your more likely to throw that point out rather than make an extrapolation or interpolation based on that anomaly.

Considering it is only ASrock that has this low pricing(it also includes their Rx 580 series), which had recently gone into the market, I think it is more likely they are simply throwing in the towel considering they got into the videocard market at a really bad time when the mining market is winding down and the market is already heavily saturated with Polaris card owners.

When mining is not happening, being a pure AMD card vendor is painful. Sapphire can do it because they are the biggest vendor. But if your only selling AMD cards in a post mining market, your in for a world of hurt. This is also true of Nvidia card makers too as shown with BFG. Being able to sell both cards is a huge assets when one company does well and the other does not.

 

[maddie]

Considering it is a single brand of RX 570 that is on sale and the rest are typical 200-280, I don't think that inference is correct.

I.e If you see 15 data points where 1 data point doesn't line up with the rest, your more likely to throw that point out rather than make an extrapolation or interpolation based on that anomaly.

Considering it is only ASrock that has this low pricing(it also includes their Rx 580 series), which had recently gone into the market, I think it is more likely they are simply throwing in the towel considering they got into the videocard market at a really bad time when the mining market is winding down and the market is already heavily saturated with Polaris card owners.

When mining is not happening, being a pure AMD card vendor is painful. Sapphire can do it because they are the biggest vendor. But if your only selling AMD cards in a post mining market, your in for a world of hurt. This is also true of Nvidia card makers too as shown with BFG. Being able to sell both cards is a huge assets when one company does well and the other does not.

This analogy had me chuckling. The 1 anomalous data point might be thought of as an error, but I can actually buy the RX 570 right now for $150, so this is a very true price.

 

[tajoh111]

This analogy had me chuckling. The 1 anomalous data point might be thought of as an error, but I can actually buy the RX 570 right now for $150, so this is a very true price.

What I meant is we can't draw a conclusion form a single point. When the rest of the data doesn't line up with the statement(the prices of the rest of the card are the same( that this is a sign that rx 570's are being cleared out for next gen),, we can't make make the conclusion based on that single data point

If your doing an experiment and you get a single wacky data point, the data you may have collected for that wacky data point may be true, but there could have been something that happened during the experiment to cause that fluctuation. In this case I explained that reason.

We should be seeing more widespread price drops to make the conclusion that polaris is being cleared out.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, I was looking on ebay, and BestBuy had the XFX RX 570 4GB RS for $179.99. Knowing how BestBuy tends to be somewhat pricey, usually, this seems to indicate something to me.

 

[Thebobo]

Other then price is there any reason you would choose a 570 over a 580?

 

[darkswordsman17]

Considering that the MSRP of the 570 was $170, and mining demand died off, could just be falling back to where it would naturally be. And could be them moving to clear out stock (doesn't necessarily support the 12nm Polaris 30 rumors though, there's probably a lot of extra cards that were produced for the mining boom that are still in the channels).

And why would the do that? Would make no sense business wise.



true but it's little benefit for a large investment. The only reason this can pay off for AMD in the big picture is due to the WSA.

I don't think its that big of an investment. Supposedly they could almost directly port their 14nm stuff to 12nm. In fact, I kinda think that most likely the 14nm process they were using is now just the 12nm process.

I was skeptical of the GDDR6 talk, but it might be more feasible than I think as GDDR6 isn't much more expensive than GDDR5 (seems like its only like 20% higher), but because of the higher speed and density they can use fewer chips to get the same bandwidth, and even reduce the memory bus to like 192 (25% bus width reduction, but like 45% faster memory speed, it would still have more memory bandwidth), so it could help them lower other costs (board traces, smaller board. But they could stay with GDDR5 and still see an uptick (they weren't using the fastest GDDR5 chips, let alone GDDR5X).

They need something to keep OEMs supplied, so that's the business case right there. AMD is targeting large consistent sales even if they are lower margin, it provides solid revenue that holds up more consistently over time (its why they pivoted with RTG to a big focus on semi-custom business like consoles).

And I think there's a decent possibility that Navi stakes out the $200-400 range (and they wait on doing cheaper ones until 7nm matures and costs fall), so they could use Polaris to stake out the $200 and below for most of 2019. That would still offer a solid option for budget conscious people (especially if Polaris 30 brings a decent 10-20% performance and/or efficiency uptick), and it'll help with the wafer agreement.

Oh, and if Polaris 30 does bring improvements, I assume it would initially be priced like previous Polaris, and then dropped in price.

 

[Avalon]

They could use 10gbps gddr5 that's a 20% bandwidth improvement.
Raise the core clocks some and they will get the 15% performance improvements.
With the 12nm process the cards will be more efficient also.

I think this probably makes the most sense, because it requires the least investment as opposed to moving to GDDR5x/GDDR6 or changing the bus width.

 

[lupi]

Considering it is a single brand of RX 570 that is on sale and the rest are typical 200-280, I don't think that inference is correct.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814930004

 

[PeterScott]

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814930004

Sorted for lowest price. I still only see one 570 for under $200 (less than $199 for the pedants):

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=-1&IsNodeId=1&Description=rx 570&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=36

 

[Mopetar]

Is it possible that the RX 570 4GB cards could go under, like, a good 20% under, $150? IOW, do you all think that the market is saturated enough, especially with all of the used mining cards available, that it will drive new retail prices down further?

I think that will likely happen. I almost bought a 4GB 470 for $130 right before the mining craze took off, but at the time I figured they’d go even lower soon. How wrong I was there.

I suspect AMD is going to go maximum value for the next generation. If they’re reusing Polaris tech again the R&D is already largely paid for so there’s less need to recoup those costs. NVidia has also left a massive opening based on the crazy prices their new cards are commanding. Also, if AMD is treating this as a means to satisfy the wafer supply agreement then they want to move volume as it costs them regardless and getting better market and mindshare for the future when they have better cards isn’t a bad idea.

I think they could use GDDR6 as even though it’s more expensive, there’s such a massive price hole that exists for new cards that I don’t think it matters. We haven’t seen the 2060 yet, but I would be surprised if it isn’t $400 (at least for the uncut or best version, maybe a 2060 Ti) which gives AMD a lot of room to maneuver below that.

 

[happy medium]

If AMD comes with a 580+ 15%, Nvidia will counter with a cut down rtx1070 since its now a fully enabled chip.

The 2070 Will be at least as fast as a 1080, so the cut down version a 2060, will be slightly faster than a 1070.