New Jersey Gun laws may imprison resident for 7 years

Matthiasa

Diamond Member
May 4, 2009
5,755
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Wait so he transported in a way that the state police told him to after asking how to do so legally, and it's still illegal?
Something(everything really) is messed up in that state.
Seems like that state is breaking all kinds of laws there.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
Why couldn't he have done a lesser crime like beat someone into a coma?

Yes, there is sarcasm here.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
BTW, it looks like there are exemptions, but the judge decided not to let the jury know about them because they weren't "relevant", because the judge wouldn't accept that he was moving based on a faulty police report that he was at a party.

NJ gun laws are insane, but the judge needs to be taken out and shot.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
I've have and never wanted to step foot in that bunghole. knew it was commie police state everytime buy another few thousand rounds and vendor says stuff like "SORRY BUT WE DO NOT SHIP TO, MASSACHUSETTS or NEW JERSEY - ILLINOIS RESIDENTS" never been those places either.
 

DominionSeraph

Diamond Member
Jul 22, 2009
8,386
32
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While it's probable that the guy was violating state law, it wasn't up to the judge to make that finding and then force a finding of guilty out of the jury because he gave them no other option.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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While it's probable that the guy was violating state law, it wasn't up to the judge to make that finding and then force a finding of guilty out of the jury because he gave them no other option.

Indeed his instructions were horrendous miscarriage and more people need to learn about Jury nullification. It'll be little peoples only power left soon.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
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Jury still could have acquitted him.

Hard to do when place is infested with retards. They must teach guns are ebil in schools following them to adulthood. Cops were retards too. Judge obviously, whole place needs to be nuked really. Or just don't go there.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
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Jury still could have acquitted him.

They could have but the judge put it to them in terms such that there was no wiggle room, which there was.

Suppose you were to be on a jury and you are charged with ascertaining if a law was broken. You were instructed by the judge that if the defendant had the weapon he in fact did so. There was absolutely no doubt that he did have it.

Having = guilt. He had it, therefore he was guilty, except the judge committed a lie of omission at best or deliberately sought to destroy the accused and crafted his instructions to make sure he did at worst.

Given that people sitting on the jury would look at the judge as the impartial broker of the law they might have taken it on themselves to ignore "justice", but they would have had little grounds to do so.

He fooled them into making the call he wanted, not the right one. It's obvious that he should have been removed long ago, but judges have great power in the real world, way too much.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
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exactly why I'm not even trying to take my guns to MA. Sad but at least I know if the gubment tries to take over Texans will take care of business.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
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I thought the ACLU was there to defend people whose rights have been infringed upon?

At least the judge in this case has been fired for something else... maybe Gov Christie will pardon this guy.
 

IceBergSLiM

Lifer
Jul 11, 2000
29,932
3
81
I hope this gets picked up on drudgereport. This dude needs some super lawyers to help him sue everyone in sight and get this shit over turned. poor guy.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
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I live in New Jersey, and have exactly Zero doubt this state would (will... and clearly has) do *exactly* this to anyone and everyone they caught.

At this point - for Mr. Aitken's sake - we have to hope the Appellate court overturns the verdict due to the Judge supressing the exemptions to the law.



Rudder: The ACLU no longer takes up cases for causes they don't believe in. And they most assuredly do NOT believe in an individual's rights to posess firearms, but rather feel that gun possession is not a Civil Liberties issue at all. Their position, specifically: http://www.aclu.org/racial-justice_...law-reform_immigrants-rights/second-amendment

Given the reference to "a well regulated Militia" and "the security of a free State," the ACLU has long taken the position that the Second Amendment protects a collective right rather than an individual right. For seven decades, the Supreme Court's 1939 decision in United States v. Miller was widely understood to have endorsed that view.

The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise. In striking down Washington D.C.'s handgun ban by a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court's 2008 decision in D.C. v. Heller held for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, whether or not associated with a state militia.

The ACLU disagrees with the Supreme Court's conclusion about the nature of the right protected by the Second Amendment. We do not, however, take a position on gun control itself. In our view, neither the possession of guns nor the regulation of guns raises a civil liberties issue.




for Spacejamz, below: Yah - When I can, my intention is to move out of this shithole state.
 
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spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,995
1,745
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First the judge that caused the whole OK/Sharia law uproar and now this...

Note to self...don't move to Jersey...
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
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You really need a note for that :)

Just kinda comes natural to me


Careful... I might move to Dallas, and then NJ comes to YOU!! o_O

(Ex has family in Sanger - so I'm not totally unfamiliar with the area) ;)
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
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Wow. Gun control and gun control advocates (namely the judge) at their finest people. Hell even that mother in Britain who got jail time for possessing an heirloom doesn't hold a candle to this.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
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That's pretty messed up. He was clearly moving between residences and as such is not guilty of a crime in NJ. This should absolutely get tossed out on appeal. Those "screwed up gun states" really suck. NY, NJ, CA, IL, MA
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
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First the judge that caused the whole OK/Sharia law uproar and now this...

Note to self...don't move to Jersey...

I disagree with the ruling in NJ about not issuing a restraining order because the husband believed what he was doing was ok due to sharia law. I feel that's the judge making a bad decision in recognizing freedom of religion but not separation of church and state. And I am a gun control advocate, but if the article is true (not saying it isn't, but so little news is unbiased) then the state didn't properly recognize it's own gun control laws. Or more specifically the judge was a dick.

Regardless of either of these, I still would never want to move to Jersey.

Also, someone mentioned jury nullification. Recent rulings have significantly decreased the validity of jury nullifcation in US courts unfortunately. From Wikipedia

In 1988, in U.S. v. Krzyske,[31], the jury asked the judge about jury nullification. The judge responded "There is no such thing as valid jury nullification." The jury convicted the defendant, and the judge's answer was upheld on appeal.

In 1997, in U.S. v. Thomas,[32] the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit ruled that jurors can be removed if there is evidence that they intend to nullify the law, under Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure 23(b). The Second Circuit also stated, however, that the court must not remove a juror for an alleged refusal to follow the law as instructed unless the record leaves no doubt that the juror was in fact engaged in deliberate misconduct--that he was not simply unpersuaded by the Government's case against the defendants.

"We categorically reject the idea that, in a society committed to the rule of law, jury nullification is desirable or that courts may permit it to occur when it is within their authority to prevent. Accordingly, we conclude that a juror who intends to nullify the applicable law is no less subject to dismissal than is a juror who disregards the court's instructions due to an event or relationship that renders him biased or otherwise unable to render a fair and impartial verdict."

In 2001, a California Supreme Court ruling on a case involving statutory rape led to a new jury instruction that requires jurors to inform the judge whenever a fellow panelist appears to be deciding a case based on his or her dislike of a law.[33] People v. Williams, 25 Cal.4th 441, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d 295, 21 P.3d 1209. However, the ruling could not overturn the practice of jury nullification itself because of double jeopardy: a defendant who has been acquitted of a charge cannot be charged a second time with it, even if the court later learns jury nullification played a role in the verdict.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
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That's pretty messed up. He was clearly moving between residences and as such is not guilty of a crime in NJ. This should absolutely get tossed out on appeal. Those "screwed up gun states" really suck. NY, NJ, CA, IL, MA

That's not true though. He had been finished "moving" for weeks. The federal law only covers you going from Point A to point B with necessary stops. He was just driving around with unloaded guns in his trunk. Which really shouldn't be a problem, but you need an affirmative defense to possess a gun in your own home in New Jersey. Legally, the police could arrest you for possessing a gun in your home, and you would have to present a defense at trial.

Oh well, I'm sure it's all worth it in exchange for being the safest state in the country. Wait... they're not? What?!
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
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Truly a case of judicial overreach but the long term solution requires throwing out the New Jersey State Legislature. Christie should pardon the guy due to the circumstances if they are as outlined in the article.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Truly a case of judicial overreach but the long term solution requires throwing out the New Jersey State Legislature. Christie should pardon the guy due to the circumstances if they are as outlined in the article.

The best course of action is take these unconstitutional laws (which they are, according to this years SC ruling) to the supreme court.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
The best course of action is take these unconstitutional laws (which they are, according to this years SC ruling) to the supreme court.

That can be a very expensive and time consuming process and it may be that the SC will not hear the case.

Still, the appeal should definitely go forward and it is such an egregious case that I would think that the NRA or other 2d Amendment group would channel some funding in support.
 

Scotteq

Diamond Member
Apr 10, 2008
5,276
5
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The best course of action is take these unconstitutional laws (which they are, according to this years SC ruling) to the supreme court.


He's a Divorcee, and working guy. He doesn't have the kind of money it takes to pursue it that far.

So who's going to fight for the guy? The ACLU!?!? Not going to happen for the reason I already linked above.

At best - The Appellate can find grounds to overturn the verdict, and either dismiss the charges or (more likely) send Mr. Aitken back to the courts for round #2.
 
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