New Jeep Renegade yay/nay?

[Kaido]

BODY CONTROL MODULE! BODY CONTROL MODULE! BODY CONTROL MODULE!

See: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f309/instrument-panel-causing-battery-drain-2829330/index2.html

That's exactly what was happening to my grand Cherokee, and it took them a month to figure it out. Call them and tell them the body control module needs to be replaced, and if it isn't done in a week you're getting a lawyer.

Yeah, I've tried to get them to replace the BCM the last couple times I was in there to no avail. Talked to a service rep today & also talking to a salesperson to see what my options are. So done with this garbage :thumbsdown:

 

[repoman0]

A buddy of mine has had one of these for just over a year and is currently trying to get it bought back under PA lemon law. Not sure what his first couple issues were (you need three) but he just drove it up here to Boston and once he was here, developed a weird rattle which got worse and worse and eventually stalled the engine. Dealership here says the engine needs to be replaced D:

He has a loaner off their lot which he drove back and is trying to make Jeep just take the car and loaner off his hands and give him a refund. I think he's going to end up stuck with it.

 

[Kaido]

A buddy of mine has had one of these for just over a year and is currently trying to get it bought back under PA lemon law. Not sure what his first couple issues were (you need three) but he just drove it up here to Boston and once he was here, developed a weird rattle which got worse and worse and eventually stalled the engine. Dealership here says the engine needs to be replaced D:

He has a loaner off their lot which he drove back and is trying to make Jeep just take the car and loaner off his hands and give him a refund. I think he's going to end up stuck with it.

Man, that stinks. At minimum, I'm trying to get mine replaced either through the dealership or Chrysler. I'd be happy with a 2nd-year (2016) Renegade & getting rid of the horrible 9-speed transmission by going with a stick-shift transmission (assuming I don't get another lemon!). Or maybe a Dodge Journey, if I can get a generic Chrysler credit. Otherwise I have to start the lemon law process...arbitration, yuck

 

[Kaido]

I've started the return process, hopefully I can get somewhere with it.

They didn't have a stick-shift Renegade available to test-drive, but I did take out a Dodge Journey & liked it. The SXT model would basically be a straight trade for what I have now. That's assuming I get Chrysler credit & not a refund from lemon-law, assuming lemon-law even gets approved.

 

[gorcorps]

I've started the return process, hopefully I can get somewhere with it.

They didn't have a stick-shift Renegade available to test-drive, but I did take out a Dodge Journey & liked it. The SXT model would basically be a straight trade for what I have now. That's assuming I get Chrysler credit & not a refund from lemon-law, assuming lemon-law even gets approved.

Different badge, same problems as far as I'm concerned.

I'm surprised you're even considering Chrysler after what you've dealt with. I learned my lesson, and won't touch anything they make again.

 

[NutBucket]

You could throw a hemi 'Cuda my way

 

[agent00f]

I read the first page and the last of this thread. Pretty funny how it went from love affair to nasty divorce.

For quite a while Chrysler group had the reputation for failing to make functional products which at least the other domestics eventually figure out. GM cars will drive poorly for a long time, and Ford is actually getting somewhere by introducing their good intl designs to the US. The focus & esp. the fiesta are very competitive with the best out there, while their chrysler counterparts are relegated to rental fleets.

 

[tortillasoup]

I remember an insurance adjuster had come to my house about 4 years ago to survey the damage that was done to my car. She was driving a Dodge Magnum that had 40K miles on it and she was bitching and moaning about how unreliable and shitty her car was (company provided car) and that her 200K mile Integra that she sold (personal car) was significantly more reliable than this car with only 40K miles.

 

[Engineer]

Stories can be brought up about many brands though. Six of my last seven vehicles have been Chrysler owned (three Dodge, two Jeep and one Chrysler) and we have had very little issue with them (latest is 13 year old Intrepid fuel pump failure - fixed it myself). The four GM cars we had were all riddled with problems with the most being a 3.4 liter Monte Carlo Z34. Within six months of purchase, it was so bad that the dealer wanted to swap engines. We said no and GM basically bought it back. Side story: After GM bought it back (through dealer), it was placed on the lot within a day. I called the dealer to inquire about the car and was told that there was no issue with the car and everything was great with it. Said the previous owner (me) just needed a truck instead of a car (we purchased a Z28 after the Carlo was taken back). Goes to show how shady some dealers can be.

I'm sure there are people here who have great GM stories though.

As for the Renegade, not sure if it's just first model year issues of something rooted deeper into Fiat-Chrysler's design teams (or just poor quality suppliers). Time will tell.

 

[Kaido]

Different badge, same problems as far as I'm concerned.

I'm surprised you're even considering Chrysler after what you've dealt with. I learned my lesson, and won't touch anything they make again.

110% agree. However, here's my situation: I can either pursue the Chrysler buy-back program, or I can pursue lemon-law. If approved through Chrysler, I'd get a brand credit within about 4 weeks. With lemon-law, I'd need to involve an attorney & the process can take up to 6 months. With either one, I'm not sure if I'd get fair market value, or the original value paid. From what I've learned so far, Chrysler's buy-back usually gives you the full car value so you can get into something equivalent, whereas it's more varied with lemon-law & may only give me KBB value for it. So I can take a settlement check (if arbitration is in my favor) for an unknown amount of money, or I can swap directly into another Chrysler-brand product (again, if their in-house arbitration rules in my favor) without any cost to me & no loss of funds or value. The downside is, Chrysler has the the most complaints of 2016 so far. Here's the projected complaint index for 2016:

http://www.lemonlaw.com/carcomplaintindex.html

Model Complaint vs. Index Ratio:

1. Chrysler 200 >20,000
2. Acura TLX >20,000
3. Jeep Cherokee >20,000
4. Subaru Outback 17,784
5. Volkswagen Golf 17,111
6. Subaru Legacy 16,906
7. GMC Canyon 14,598
8. Chevrolet Suburban 13,952
9. Jeep Grand Cherokee 13,729
10. Jeep Renegade 13,318
11. Fiat 500L 12,690
12. Dodge Journey 12,430
13. Hyundai Genesis 12,396
14. Ford Focus 12,081
15. Ford Fiesta 11,878
16. Mercedes Benz CLA 10,738
17. Nissan Pathfinder 10,293
18. Chrysler Town & Country 10,196
19. Jeep Wrangler 10,188
20. Fiat 500 9,122

Chrysler (FCA) owns seven brands:

1. Alfa Romeo
2. Chrysler
3. Dodge
4. Fiat
5. Maserati
6. Jeep
7. RAM

For 2016, per the index above, they have 9 cars on the list:

1. Chrysler 200 >20,000
2. Jeep Cherokee >20,000
3. Jeep Grand Cherokee 13,729
4. Jeep Renegade 13,318
5. Fiat 500L 12,690
6. Dodge Journey 12,430
7. Chrysler Town & Country 10,196
8. Jeep Wrangler 10,188
9. Fiat 500 9,122

Nine out of the top 20 cars with the most complaints are Chrysler-brand products. That's just pathetic.

 

[gorcorps]

Stories can be brought up about many brands though. Six of my last seven vehicles have been Chrysler owned (three Dodge, two Jeep and one Chrysler) and we have had very little issue with them (latest is 13 year old Intrepid fuel pump failure - fixed it myself). The four GM cars we had were all riddled with problems with the most being a 3.4 liter Monte Carlo Z34. Within six months of purchase, it was so bad that the dealer wanted to swap engines. We said no and GM basically bought it back. Side story: After GM bought it back (through dealer), it was placed on the lot within a day. I called the dealer to inquire about the car and was told that there was no issue with the car and everything was great with it. Said the previous owner (me) just needed a truck instead of a car (we purchased a Z28 after the Carlo was taken back). Goes to show how shady some dealers can be.

I'm sure there are people here who have great GM stories though.

As for the Renegade, not sure if it's just first model year issues of something rooted deeper into Fiat-Chrysler's design teams (or just poor quality suppliers). Time will tell.

Oh there's plenty of GM stories... these days they aren't much better than Chrysler in my mind

My problem with Chrysler wasn't just that they have electrical issues. Vehicles are very complex, and being in a manufacturing environment myself I completely understand that things will slip by that you won't notice until a problem develops while in use. What will differentiate one company from another is the customer service you experience if a problem popped up. This is where Chrysler (or Jeep specifically) failed spectacularly.

My colleagues with other vehicle makers all had experience with repairs, but when they had their car fixed they were given loaners off the lot or at least a like rental. I had to FIGHT with both the dealership and Jeep corporate just to get approval for a rental while they had my Grand Cherokee. When I finally wore them down enough to get in a rental, they only approved an economy car level. So I was without my 2014 Grand Cherokee for a full month, and the best they could do for me was an older Elantra from Budget. If you're going to put out shitty vehicles, you better have the customer service to back it up. Jeep fails on both accounts.

 

[Kaido]

I read the first page and the last of this thread. Pretty funny how it went from love affair to nasty divorce.

For quite a while Chrysler group had the reputation for failing to make functional products which at least the other domestics eventually figure out. GM cars will drive poorly for a long time, and Ford is actually getting somewhere by introducing their good intl designs to the US. The focus & esp. the fiesta are very competitive with the best out there, while their chrysler counterparts are relegated to rental fleets.

What it boils down to is this:

1. I love the car itself, it's great.

2. My particular car is a lemon. My dealer has been great & my dealer's service department has been great, no fault to either of them. It was bad from the factory.

3. I have a couple friends with the car, no issues. I've had loaners as Renegades a couple times, no issues. Thus, not all Renegades are lemons.

4. I would be happy if Chrysler gave me a working car. I paid for a reliable car & did not get one. The dealership has no power to issue a replacement, which means I either have to go through Chrysler corporate or through my state's lemon-law program. There is no guarantee either one will be approved, nor that I will retain full value of the car if approved. Unfortunately, the process is not easy for either route. I simply want Chrysler to make good on their end of the deal: giving me a car I can trust, which is what I paid for. My particular model is a lemon.

Interestingly enough, both the Fiesta & the Focus make the top 20 complaint list, primarily due to transmission issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._robert_silverman_founding_partner_at/cw0s30u

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._robert_silverman_founding_partner_at/cw2168l

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._robert_silverman_founding_partner_at/cw23zjx

 

[gorcorps]

110% agree. However, here's my situation: I can either pursue the Chrysler buy-back program, or I can pursue lemon-law. If approved through Chrysler, I'd get a brand credit within about 4 weeks. With lemon-law, I'd need to involve an attorney & the process can take up to 6 months. With either one, I'm not sure if I'd get fair market value, or the original value paid. From what I've learned so far, Chrysler's buy-back usually gives you the full car value so you can get into something equivalent, whereas it's more varied with lemon-law & may only give me KBB value for it. So I can take a settlement check (if arbitration is in my favor) for an unknown amount of money, or I can swap directly into another Chrysler-brand product (again, if their in-house arbitration rules in my favor) without any cost to me & no loss of funds or value. The downside is, Chrysler has the the most complaints of 2016 so far. Here's the projected complaint index for 2016:

http://www.lemonlaw.com/carcomplaintindex.html

...Nine out of the top 20 cars with the most complaints are Chrysler-brand products. That's just pathetic.

I suppose that makes sense. If you get into something that has less problems then maybe you'll be happy long enough to trade it in down the road for something else.

 

[Kaido]

Stories can be brought up about many brands though. Six of my last seven vehicles have been Chrysler owned (three Dodge, two Jeep and one Chrysler) and we have had very little issue with them (latest is 13 year old Intrepid fuel pump failure - fixed it myself). The four GM cars we had were all riddled with problems with the most being a 3.4 liter Monte Carlo Z34. Within six months of purchase, it was so bad that the dealer wanted to swap engines. We said no and GM basically bought it back. Side story: After GM bought it back (through dealer), it was placed on the lot within a day. I called the dealer to inquire about the car and was told that there was no issue with the car and everything was great with it. Said the previous owner (me) just needed a truck instead of a car (we purchased a Z28 after the Carlo was taken back). Goes to show how shady some dealers can be.

I'm sure there are people here who have great GM stories though.

As for the Renegade, not sure if it's just first model year issues of something rooted deeper into Fiat-Chrysler's design teams (or just poor quality suppliers). Time will tell.

Well, considering FCA's cars make up nearly 50% of the top 20 car complaints, I would say that the problem is in their design & manufacturing culture. I've had issues with every Dodge I've ever had (Dakota, Caravan, etc.). But you're right, all cars have issues, sometimes it's just luck of the draw; it just seems to be a higher percentage with Chrysler-branded products. My wife & I have both leased for the last ten years or so, never really had any issue with anything outside of her New Beetle (it ran fine, but anything that wasn't bolted down literally fell off...cupholders, 12V plug, holy-crap handles, trunk latch, you name it, and VW refused to pay for nearly all of it, citing user damage), so I guess I was due

 

[exar333]

Well, considering FCA's cars make up nearly 50% of the top 20 car complaints, I would say that the problem is in their design & manufacturing culture. I've had issues with every Dodge I've ever had (Dakota, Caravan, etc.). But you're right, all cars have issues, sometimes it's just luck of the draw; it just seems to be a higher percentage with Chrysler-branded products. My wife & I have both leased for the last ten years or so, never really had any issue with anything outside of her New Beetle (it ran fine, but anything that wasn't bolted down literally fell off...cupholders, 12V plug, holy-crap handles, trunk latch, you name it, and VW refused to pay for nearly all of it, citing user damage), so I guess I was due

Funny you should say this. My wife had one a number of years back and you had to use the car very gingerly in the winter or else all sorts of things would just start snapping off. It was terrible.

Ran fine and was 'reliable' outside of all the small things failing/breaking over time. Sad thing, those are mostly fit and finish items, and a few extra pennies here and there would have made a world of difference. Obviously it was built by an accountant vs. engineer. 'What cheap items can we use from the existing parts bin....hmm'

 

[Engineer]

And to be fair, our Chrysler products were older models (short of the 2011 Chrysler 200 convertible) or more simple products with fewer electronic gadgets (two Jeep Patriots).

I'm not sure that the Patriots have any design influence from Fiat or not at this point as they have been around for quiet a few years (2016 is the last year they will be built as the Renegade is taking their place ).

 

[Kaido]

I suppose that makes sense. If you get into something that has less problems then maybe you'll be happy long enough to trade it in down the road for something else.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. If lemon-law gives me a settlement check for KBB, it's nearly a $10k loss (thanks, depreciation!). My dealer said that Chrysler will sometimes offer the equivalent amount or else get you into something slightly better as a gesture of goodwill...while I'd prefer not to go with another Chrysler, for obvious reasons, I'd also like to not lose a big chunk of money all because they screwed me over from the factory. And everything is a question mark because I've only just started the process yesterday. As far FCA vehicles, I am considering:

1. A 2nd-year Renegade, with stick-shift. I do not like the ~180hp motor with the 9-speed transmission. I don't like the transmission at all, but it is better with a bigger motor (I test-drove the Chrysler 200, didn't like the tranny, but it was a LOT better with more horsepower!). Although, while I miss driving manual, I do sit in traffic for an hour or more sometimes, so...yeah.

2. AWD Charger: didn't realize this was available, thought they were RWD only. Base model is same as what I paid for my Renegade. 292 horsepower, full-sized sedan. It would be a departure from what I'm used to, but might be fun to try something new!

3. Dodge Journey: I believe I test-drove the one with a V6 & a standard 6-speed automatic transmission. It's a very bland car (the "man van"), basically just a Ford Freestyle with a Dodge logo on it. But it's roomy, functional, and actually had a noticeably better ride than the Renegade. Complaint index is high though, and there's a video on Youtube of someone running theirs over with a tank because of all of the issues...

4. Jeep Patriot: Similar price to my Renegade. Just a boxy Jeep. My buddy has one, so I'll have to check it out this week.

At the end of the day, I'd still be stuck with a Chrysler product...but at least I'm not potentially losing a huge chunk of money up-front. And like you said, I could trade it in down the road for something else...

 

[Kaido]

Funny you should say this. My wife had one a number of years back and you had to use the car very gingerly in the winter or else all sorts of things would just start snapping off. It was terrible.

Ran fine and was 'reliable' outside of all the small things failing/breaking over time. Sad thing, those are mostly fit and finish items, and a few extra pennies here and there would have made a world of difference. Obviously it was built by an accountant vs. engineer. 'What cheap items can we use from the existing parts bin....hmm'

From what I understand, certain cars were made in Germany (no issues) & other cars like the Beetle were built in Mexico (lots of fit & finish issues). Of the stuff that broke, nearly everything broke multiple times & had to be replaced two or there times, and VW charges up the wazoo for simple crap. I was pretty fed up with their terrible service by the end of the lease; we really loved the car (VERY sporty to drive, surprisingly!), but I didn't want to have to keep dealing with fiddly little issues from them anymore.

 

[Kaido]

And to be fair, our Chrysler products were older models (short of the 2011 Chrysler 200 convertible) or more simple products with fewer electronic gadgets (two Jeep Patriots).

I'm not sure that the Patriots have any design influence from Fiat or not at this point as they have been around for quiet a few years (2016 is the last year they will be built as the Renegade is taking their place ).

The bulk of my issues are 100% computer-related. I was in the dealership yesterday & they still didn't want to replace the BCM

 

[LTC8K6]

My 2008 Jeep GC has been very reliable. Only a couple of very minor issues over the years.

It is pre-FIAT though.

 

[LTC8K6]

The bulk of my issues are 100% computer-related. I was in the dealership yesterday & they still didn't want to replace the BCM

Any half-decent dealer would by now have swapped in a new BCM to see if it solved the problem.

 

[Kaido]

Any half-decent dealer would by now have swapped in a new BCM to see if it solved the problem.

I've had three different reps & none will even give me the price for the BCM. It's very weird. I don't imagine it's more than a grand, which is probably more than they paid their techs to work on it...it was in the shop over a week last time.

 

[agent00f]

Stories can be brought up about many brands though. Six of my last seven vehicles have been Chrysler owned (three Dodge, two Jeep and one Chrysler) and we have had very little issue with them (latest is 13 year old Intrepid fuel pump failure - fixed it myself). The four GM cars we had were all riddled with problems with the most being a 3.4 liter Monte Carlo Z34. Within six months of purchase, it was so bad that the dealer wanted to swap engines. We said no and GM basically bought it back. Side story: After GM bought it back (through dealer), it was placed on the lot within a day. I called the dealer to inquire about the car and was told that there was no issue with the car and everything was great with it. Said the previous owner (me) just needed a truck instead of a car (we purchased a Z28 after the Carlo was taken back). Goes to show how shady some dealers can be.

I'm sure there are people here who have great GM stories though.

As for the Renegade, not sure if it's just first model year issues of something rooted deeper into Fiat-Chrysler's design teams (or just poor quality suppliers). Time will tell.

What it boils down to is this:

1. I love the car itself, it's great.

2. My particular car is a lemon. My dealer has been great & my dealer's service department has been great, no fault to either of them. It was bad from the factory.

3. I have a couple friends with the car, no issues. I've had loaners as Renegades a couple times, no issues. Thus, not all Renegades are lemons.

4. I would be happy if Chrysler gave me a working car. I paid for a reliable car & did not get one. The dealership has no power to issue a replacement, which means I either have to go through Chrysler corporate or through my state's lemon-law program. There is no guarantee either one will be approved, nor that I will retain full value of the car if approved. Unfortunately, the process is not easy for either route. I simply want Chrysler to make good on their end of the deal: giving me a car I can trust, which is what I paid for. My particular model is a lemon.

Interestingly enough, both the Fiesta & the Focus make the top 20 complaint list, primarily due to transmission issues:

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._robert_silverman_founding_partner_at/cw0s30u

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._robert_silverman_founding_partner_at/cw2168l

https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comme..._robert_silverman_founding_partner_at/cw23zjx

I'm speaking to the general consensus among the driving/auto enthusiast crowd. Of course individual models/instances vary, but GM has for example proven their ability to make reliable drivetrains with the ubiquitous 3800 engine + their autos. Reliability makes it so potential buyers don't have that excuse to avoid your brand.

Similarly ford fiesta/focus deliver some of the better dynamics within their class which had traditionally escaped american cars. Features/quality make potential buyers desire your products.

Personally I tend to bias towards quality of driving experience, and the american makes generally rank ford>gm=chrysler, and gm reliability overall > chrysler.

Chrysler has had some hits within its portfolio, like the Ram/Neon suspension, etc, but overall tends to lag behind which explains their need to cut prices enough to enter rental fleets more so than others.

 

[Kaido]

Any thoughts on the refreshed Dodge Charger? The SE & SXT are offered in AWD now, which would help in the snowy winters where I live. It's a blimp of the car, but at least it doesn't make the Top 20 complaint list like a lot of FCA's cars...the 200, Cherokee & Grand Cherokee, Renegade, 500 & 500L, Journey, Town & Country, & Wrangler. Plus it has TACC as an option...AWD, TACC, and BT are pretty much my only wishlist requirements in a car.

I did like the Journey, but if I'm able to get credit for a replacement car, there's no way I'm getting something with such a high complaint index. I think the only other car I'd even consider is the Caravan...but no AWD or TACC available.

 

[Demo24]

Any thoughts on the refreshed Dodge Charger? The SE & SXT are offered in AWD now, which would help in the snowy winters where I live. It's a blimp of the car, but at least it doesn't make the Top 20 complaint list like a lot of FCA's cars...the 200, Cherokee & Grand Cherokee, Renegade, 500 & 500L, Journey, Town & Country, & Wrangler. Plus it has TACC as an option...AWD, TACC, and BT are pretty much my only wishlist requirements in a car.

I did like the Journey, but if I'm able to get credit for a replacement car, there's no way I'm getting something with such a high complaint index. I think the only other car I'd even consider is the Caravan...but no AWD or TACC available.

Can't say to know much about chargers, but they've been refreshed lately, seem to get reviewed ok, and I see a decent amount of them on the road so I'd guess they would be 'ok'.

Journeys have been out for a long time with little to no updates , and have always reviewed poorly. I really can't see any reason to get one unless you've no other choice.