new Ipod/Iphone announced

[silverpig]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry, I'm not buying that argument. When Apple products are grossly overpriced (like this one!), the prices often drop like a rock after the release date. Take the iPod Photo for example... The 60 GB model was $599 in November of 2004, but was dropped to $449 just four months later. They also released a $349 30 GB iPod Photo replacing the $499 40 GB model at the same time, which is the one that I got.

The Mac Mini was the same way... The original Mac Mini was about $1,000 when fully loaded with WiFi, Bluetooth, a SuperDrive and extra memory when it was released, but that same model was only $700 six months later. Guess when I decided to buy mine

You have got to be kidding me. You're surprised that techno-gadgets drop in price over the course of a few months? I payed $400 for a Geforce 256 DDR back in '00, guess what it's worth now.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: neutralizer

Originally posted by: kmrivers
I am completely calm. My feelings dont revolve around whether or not you like this product. I don't know if it better to use. Until I can try I have no idea. But I like the sound of it and I like what they are doing, not just with the interface.

I like it as of now. We will see what happens when it comes out.

And I am not the only one who thinks they will be adding more in the next 6 months. Whose to say they told use everything they working on? Besides it wasn't even about software development I was speaking mainly about the hardware, 3G for instance.

Considering it is built on OS X or is OS X them tweaking the software with an update wouldnt be hard, now or later. Ever heard of program updates?

Neutralizer: Replaceable battery is unconfirmed. And as I said there is a sim slot somewhere which may also be where the battery is. Its fine if you want to believe it wont have it. But using it as a con is unfair.

Expandable storage? It doesnt need expandable storage. It has 4 and 8GB. Phones now have what, 60MB? How you can lump them together is beyond or how you could even consider the addition of an SD slot a feature because they are too cheap to throw a decent amount of storage in there is beyond me. To each their own though.

3rd party programs. This is Engadgets assumption at this point. Considering it is OS X, I imagine 3rd party are possible and will arrive on iPhone. Albeit under the close watch of Apple. But I don't know and that might not be the case.

My problem here is the misinformation and assumptions bases on that misinformation. We don't have every detail right now. Speculating is fine. But to beat down on Apple because of some unconfirmed rumors is silly.

It is fine if you want to say "No user replaceable battery would be a stupid move" but saying "There is no user replaceable battery therefore it is crap and lightyears behind what smartphones today have."

See the difference? I am speculating of course, but no one knows what is in store.

So I would return with maybe a calm down for everyone else?

The only reason I mentioned the replaceable battery confirmed or unconfirmed is that historically, apple has always sacrificed the replaceable battery part for form, to maintain their sleek ethos.

I think the major con is that the touchscreen keyboard doesn't seem to be very fast. Why don't you address that concern?

It very well may be an issue. But I dont know yet. I havent used it. Do I think I could type fast on it? Yes. It would take time, but I can get over not having a physical keyboard.

I say that because even on my current phone I know where to press on the screen. I can type number on my treo without looking. I can get to my contacts without looking. But guess what, I am going to look at the screen anyway!

When I worked at Subway, I could ring an order without looking at the screen. I am sure I can type without the feedback of the keys.

Heck I even used those laser keyboard things that project to the table and I was pretty quick. Maybe it is because I don't mind trying something new.

Will it be more efficient than an actual keypad? It may or may not be. Could it be the best thing since the mouse? It may or may not be. I really don't know. But I plan to try it.

The point of not having a keyboard is so that it is there when you need it virtually and not when you dont. I feel that adds to the device. I don't use the keyboard on my treo much. So why not get rid of it and replace it with a virtual solution?

I think trying it out for a few seconds and dismissing it is something a lot of people will do. Things take time to get used to. Heck when you first learned to type were you awesome at it? How about guitar if you play?

Also, most reports are that the screen is very hard. Glass like. So it is not like the screens on current PDAs which should be taken into consideration here.

As far as the battery, again the phone has a sim slot. In the slide show it just pointed to the back. Didnt say where the compartment is.

The fact that the battery wasnt mentioned leaves two things:

1: It doesn't have it
2: It is assumed it does because every other phone does.

Even so. For me, I dont really think this is an issue. I say that because I like to upgrade. I had a Treo 600, battery was fine til I sold. I got a 650. I have had it for over a year, battery is just like I remember it when I got it.

I will get the iPhone. Have it for a year or two and upgrade. This is just my personal thing. I understand not everyone does this. So for you, it is understandable why it won't work for you.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: neutralizer

Originally posted by: BD2003

Please tell me what other companies have already that Apple doesn't here. Besides 3G.

I have heard people saying this, but havent seen anything to back it up yet.

How about we start with the most basic of things -

Replaceable battery
Expandable storage
3rd party programs

They also have interfaces you can use in your pocket. One of the reasons I don't dig ipods all too much.

The demoed iPhone interface LOOKS nice. It looks amazing. It also looks like a pain in the ass to use. Simple, very simple to use - granted, but there is no way in the world I'd ever get a phone that I'd have to poke with a finger to use. I refuse to use styluses as well. In fact, the entire concept of a touchscreen is terrible to me.

You know what phone has the best, most usable interface I've ever used, and is also simple to use? The sidekick. Using a sidekick is effortless, responsive and convenient. It's so well thought out, and puts palm and windows mobile to absolute shame.

Sure, its limited in it's capabilities, but so is the iPhone. I'd like the interface to look nice, but that has to come second to functionality.

The single most important factor in a smartphone is how intuitive it is to use. How fast it lets you do the things you want to do, so you can put it away. Otherwise, it's a toy you play around with at home, and never use outside.

Definitely, a smartphone should always before function over form. Actual keyboard >>> touchscreen keyboard.

Until you try it, I think that is a rather wild claim. If you give it a fair chance and don't like it. Cool. But whatever floats your boat.

 

[kmrivers]

Originally posted by: DVK916
Lack of 3G kills it. Apple should have also supported CDMA networks, why only release it on GSM. Sprint and Verizon 3G networks are currently the fastest with the lowest latency.

In case you didnt know, Jobs said 3G is coming.

GSM was chosen for international compatibility. This will be a global phone and thus needs to be on a global network.

I doubt Sprint and Verizon would have given Apple the freedom to keep their phone as it comes from Apple. Not loaded with crappy junk from the provider like VCast and the like.

Whether they should have or not, that is up to Apple. But I am sure they made the best decision they could for the time being.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: kmrivers
And I am not the only one who thinks they will be adding more in the next 6 months. Whose to say they told use everything they working on? Besides it wasn't even about software development I was speaking mainly about the hardware, 3G for instance.

No one has to tell me what Apple is working on - they don't live in a magical world where rules don't apply to them. If Cingular wants to ship these late June, then Apple will need to give them the gold build late May, which means they need to make that build mid-May at the latest. For a company to finish a large software project in mid-May means they are either already past dcut, or just about to reach it. D-cut means all features are complete and no new ones are allowed - post dcut all time is spent on fixing bugs. So no, there will not be new features between now and shipping time, unless you think Jobs purposely kept a lot of major features secret, which is really stupid.

And yes, you were talking about software development, you just didn't know it. Taking an off-the-shelf 3G chip and putting it in a device is not complicated - the hard part is writing your own stack that uses the chip's capabilities, integrates with your software AND successfully passes all external certifications.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

4. GPS is neither confirmed nor denied. Jobs said "it knows where you are" in the keynote. It may be something that is not complete. What phones has functional GPS now? That integrate with a direcions/mapping system, in the US of course. Asia has had it for some time I know.

Ever heard of VZNavigator? It's a full-fledged GPS on any GIN-capable VZW phone. Even talks to you "turn here" and such.

This thing just doesn't interest me for the price. Of course, I've never really been interested in a smartphone in the first place. I think I only carried my iPaq around for about a month before I got tired of messing with it.

 

[Merlyn3D]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: kmrivers

4. GPS is neither confirmed nor denied. Jobs said "it knows where you are" in the keynote. It may be something that is not complete. What phones has functional GPS now? That integrate with a direcions/mapping system, in the US of course. Asia has had it for some time I know.

Ever heard of VZNavigator? It's a full-fledged GPS on any GIN-capable VZW phone. Even talks to you "turn here" and such.

This thing just doesn't interest me for the price. Of course, I've never really been interested in a smartphone in the first place. I think I only carried my iPaq around for about a month before I got tired of messing with it.

Um....you do know that VZNavigator is about 2 years late to the GPS game? Sprint has had GPS on phone capabilities for 2 years now (Telenav as well as others like Garmin), and with nextel for something like 4-5 years.

 

[kmrivers]

http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1047-1.htm

Good article. Compares the 680 to the iPhone. They are saying no removable battery. So there you go. Non removable, I had hope with the hidden sim slot.

Some reports that it may be difficult to type. But the auto correction works well according to Pogue.

I am sure it has a learning curve, but I think it would become easy after some use. I couldnt text more than 10 words a minute when I started, now I can zoom through it. The lack of tactile feedback may make it more difficult. We will see though!

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Raduque

Originally posted by: kmrivers

4. GPS is neither confirmed nor denied. Jobs said "it knows where you are" in the keynote. It may be something that is not complete. What phones has functional GPS now? That integrate with a direcions/mapping system, in the US of course. Asia has had it for some time I know.

Ever heard of VZNavigator? It's a full-fledged GPS on any GIN-capable VZW phone. Even talks to you "turn here" and such.

This thing just doesn't interest me for the price. Of course, I've never really been interested in a smartphone in the first place. I think I only carried my iPaq around for about a month before I got tired of messing with it.

nokia is also releasing gps phones... about now or so, their new e line

 

[NFS4]

LOL. Apple may get iPWNED again!!!!!

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: NFS4
LOL. Apple may get iPWNED again!!!!!

iiinteresting

 

[BabaBooey]

Too bad cisco owns the name iphone already and released it a month ago ...:laugh:

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: kmrivers
http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1047-1.htm

Good article. Compares the 680 to the iPhone. They are saying no removable battery. So there you go. Non removable, I had hope with the hidden sim slot.

Some reports that it may be difficult to type. But the auto correction works well according to Pogue.

I am sure it has a learning curve, but I think it would become easy after some use. I couldnt text more than 10 words a minute when I started, now I can zoom through it. The lack of tactile feedback may make it more difficult. We will see though!

I enjoyed that read.

 

[LegendKiller]

I am really tired of people saying that this is the beginning of converged phones. That is complete BS. Converged phones have been around a *LONG* time. My PPC-6700 can do much more than this thing will ever do.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: kmrivers

Originally posted by: neutralizer

Originally posted by: kmrivers
I am completely calm. My feelings dont revolve around whether or not you like this product. I don't know if it better to use. Until I can try I have no idea. But I like the sound of it and I like what they are doing, not just with the interface.

I like it as of now. We will see what happens when it comes out.

And I am not the only one who thinks they will be adding more in the next 6 months. Whose to say they told use everything they working on? Besides it wasn't even about software development I was speaking mainly about the hardware, 3G for instance.

Considering it is built on OS X or is OS X them tweaking the software with an update wouldnt be hard, now or later. Ever heard of program updates?

Neutralizer: Replaceable battery is unconfirmed. And as I said there is a sim slot somewhere which may also be where the battery is. Its fine if you want to believe it wont have it. But using it as a con is unfair.

Expandable storage? It doesnt need expandable storage. It has 4 and 8GB. Phones now have what, 60MB? How you can lump them together is beyond or how you could even consider the addition of an SD slot a feature because they are too cheap to throw a decent amount of storage in there is beyond me. To each their own though.

3rd party programs. This is Engadgets assumption at this point. Considering it is OS X, I imagine 3rd party are possible and will arrive on iPhone. Albeit under the close watch of Apple. But I don't know and that might not be the case.

My problem here is the misinformation and assumptions bases on that misinformation. We don't have every detail right now. Speculating is fine. But to beat down on Apple because of some unconfirmed rumors is silly.

It is fine if you want to say "No user replaceable battery would be a stupid move" but saying "There is no user replaceable battery therefore it is crap and lightyears behind what smartphones today have."

See the difference? I am speculating of course, but no one knows what is in store.

So I would return with maybe a calm down for everyone else?

The only reason I mentioned the replaceable battery confirmed or unconfirmed is that historically, apple has always sacrificed the replaceable battery part for form, to maintain their sleek ethos.

I think the major con is that the touchscreen keyboard doesn't seem to be very fast. Why don't you address that concern?

It very well may be an issue. But I dont know yet. I havent used it. Do I think I could type fast on it? Yes. It would take time, but I can get over not having a physical keyboard.

I say that because even on my current phone I know where to press on the screen. I can type number on my treo without looking. I can get to my contacts without looking. But guess what, I am going to look at the screen anyway!

When I worked at Subway, I could ring an order without looking at the screen. I am sure I can type without the feedback of the keys.

Heck I even used those laser keyboard things that project to the table and I was pretty quick. Maybe it is because I don't mind trying something new.

Will it be more efficient than an actual keypad? It may or may not be. Could it be the best thing since the mouse? It may or may not be. I really don't know. But I plan to try it.

The point of not having a keyboard is so that it is there when you need it virtually and not when you dont. I feel that adds to the device. I don't use the keyboard on my treo much. So why not get rid of it and replace it with a virtual solution?

I think trying it out for a few seconds and dismissing it is something a lot of people will do. Things take time to get used to. Heck when you first learned to type were you awesome at it? How about guitar if you play?

Because virtual keyboards have been around since the first pocket pc, and yet thumboards were introduced much, much later. Because using an on screen keyboard sucks.

Sure, learning the guitar is hard, but it'd be downright impossible if you couldnt feel the frets and strings.

 

[AnyMal]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile

Originally posted by: kmrivers
http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1047-1.htm

Good article. Compares the 680 to the iPhone. They are saying no removable battery. So there you go. Non removable, I had hope with the hidden sim slot.

Some reports that it may be difficult to type. But the auto correction works well according to Pogue.

I am sure it has a learning curve, but I think it would become easy after some use. I couldnt text more than 10 words a minute when I started, now I can zoom through it. The lack of tactile feedback may make it more difficult. We will see though!

I enjoyed that read.

I think that comparison is kind of pointless since iPhone, despite what Jobs tells his sheeple, is NOT a smartphone.

 

[KeyserSoze]

The Keynote is available via BT.




KS

 

[ultimatebob]

This is the funniest iPhone story (NSFW!) that I've seen yet

 

[Kaido]

The excitement in me is dying down and I'm starting to think more logically now...as much as I want an iPhone, #1 on my Personal List of Technology Rules is "Never buy first-generation hardware." I bought a first-generation 13" MacBook and had unbelievable problems with it...bad hard drive, high temps, random shutdown...they were able to fix it, but I still regretted buying a first-generation piece of technology. Sign me up for round 2, baby! :laugh:

 

[ultimatebob]

Originally posted by: silverpig

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
Sorry, I'm not buying that argument. When Apple products are grossly overpriced (like this one!), the prices often drop like a rock after the release date. Take the iPod Photo for example... The 60 GB model was $599 in November of 2004, but was dropped to $449 just four months later. They also released a $349 30 GB iPod Photo replacing the $499 40 GB model at the same time, which is the one that I got.

The Mac Mini was the same way... The original Mac Mini was about $1,000 when fully loaded with WiFi, Bluetooth, a SuperDrive and extra memory when it was released, but that same model was only $700 six months later. Guess when I decided to buy mine

You have got to be kidding me. You're surprised that techno-gadgets drop in price over the course of a few months? I payed $400 for a Geforce 256 DDR back in '00, guess what it's worth now.

That post was supposed to be directed at kmrivers, right? I'm not the one who's naive enough to think that the iPhone will cost $500 for the next three years just because it has an Apple logo on it.

 

[LeiZaK]

Originally posted by: DLeRium

Originally posted by: neutralizer

Originally posted by: gobucks
does anybody else think apple is missing out on a huge opportunity here? I mean, don't get me wrong - I think the design is beautiful, the interface is great, and it certainly has an awful lot of stuff. Still, it seems like they made some stupid choices, such as
1) No replaceable battery - I've owned several cell phones, and even with the extended batteries, battery life takes a nose dive after a while, and would certainly happen within the 2 year contract period that is required for an iPhone. Unless they have a great replacement plan, this is stupid.
2) It's not really a smartphone - it doesn't have stuff like office support, and it doesn't seem like 3rd party apps will be allowed. Obviously the hardware must be fast enough to handle all this stuff, so it's just a matter of putting the software on it, or at least allowing users to do so (although i bet somebody will crack this limitation)
3) Storage - people who want an iPod purely to store a few hundred songs to bring to the gym will want an iPod nano or shuffle, not this big thing. People who want a full-screen video player (which this phone will appeal to) don't want to be limited to 1 or 2 movies and a couple hundred songs, they want to be able to load it with movies and music, especially considering that the "mini OSX" and other apps will probably take up over 1GB. Why not make it a tiny bit bigger and add a 30-40GB 1.8" hard drive, or simply pack in extra flash memory (16-32GB)? Also, just about every phone has a memory expansion slot, why not this one? At least if you added an SD port, people could load up additional movies/music on extra memory cards.
4) Connectivity - No 3G? I personally would probably only use the wifi since it's free, but i can't imagine other customers trying to use stuff like Cingular video on EDGE. In fact, if they want this device to be truly forward-looking, why not look at adding WiMax?
5) Camera - sure, 2.0MP is nice, but it's not good enough to get most people to leave their digital cameras at home. Samsung and a bunch of other cell makers are outfitting their upcoming phones with 3.2MP (these chips take up the same amount of space as the old 2.0MP ones, btw) or even 4.0MP ones - good enough for the average person to use as their ONLY camera
6) Carrier exclusiveness - why only cingular? why not all GSM carriers (i hear t-mobile is great in Ohio where I'm from). For that matter, why not release a CDMA version for verizon and sprint? They are limiting themselves to a fairly small market in America. I suppose this might bring new customers to Cingular, but if so, that brings up the issue of -
7) No carrier subsidation - apple is refusing to allow cingular to subsidize the price of its phone to customers - cingular buys the phone for $500 or $600, then sells it for the same price. This is a great deal for Cingular, who will probably get more business AND it doesn't have to take the normal ~$400 hit to subsidize the phone cost, but it's a huge missed opportunity for Apple. How much would any company be willing to subsidize just to be able to carry the iPhone? $400-500? What about being the EXCLUSIVE carrier of the hottest product in years? I know Apple wants to keep the iPhone expensive ($500 and up) so that it doesn't cannibalize iPod sales. However, why not let Cingular (or other carriers) pick up some of the tab, and then simply LOAD UP the iPhone with features - 30-40GB storage, 3G and/or WiMax, 3.2MP+ camera (that is useful for something other than taking spur-of-the-moment embarrassing photos of friends), replaceable battery, office/business apps, and maybe even throw in some sweet bluetooth headphones or iTunes downloads. Why not sell it to the carriers for $1000 and then make them pay $500 of it? Apple would make more money and people would feel like they are getting a good deal. If you're not gonna do this, then why not just sell the phone unlocked for retail price and let people set up their own, contract-free plan with Cingular or T-Mobile?

Totally agree with your points, but use paragraphs man.

PEople and their cool RaZr phones are still taking VGA or 1.3 MP shots ok? And people still think it's the best phone yet. Good God.

SE's K750i was revolutionary with the 2MP capabilities. That's nearly 2 years old. SE's K800/K790 are over 7 months old. 3.2MP is long surpassed. There are already GOOD 5 MP phones out there.

The American phone market will NEVER catch up with the rest of the world because we have publicity for the crappy phones out there (RaZr, RoKr, etc etc)

When did we start judging phones by their megapixels?

 

[andy04]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Cisco sues Apple :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[ShotgunSteven]

I like the looks of the phone, but I wish they would leave out the damned camera.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
I like the looks of the phone, but I wish they would leave out the damned camera.

Why?

 

[keeleysam]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: ShotgunSteven
I like the looks of the phone, but I wish they would leave out the damned camera.

Why?

Federal employee.