New Intel SSD drives are in!!!

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: AbRASiON

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: AbRASiON

Originally posted by: Nizology
I wanna know how many people are droppin $450 for the 160gb. Is that really worth it right now?

Better than the old G1 price - a lot of us hardcore geeks can't bear to wait any longer, I know it'll be 199$ US in 9 months but I've had it with slow drives, I can't bear it anymore.

I just need an optomisation and tips guide, do I keep my swap file on the SSD? (6gb) do I keep my TMP and TEMP directories? What about my user profile? Etc.

this drive is faster than any ssd... ignore optimizations guides, they are for jmicron drives only.

Don't be silly.
Optimization for drive life is important to me, if this thing was simply going to hold a single 160gb file which is sequentially written and read sure, but Windows 7 as an OS has thousands of files, some updated all the time, some tiny files, some large files.
Also I've been moving /temp/ and /my documents/ and /swap/ to another drive for 10 years - I'm very used to that, do I still do it and what are the benefits- I intend to find out if no one else has

it is important to you to perform useless optimizations that will degrade your experience and possibly performance for absolutely no discernible benefit?

drive life on the intels is ridiculous... in the hundreds of years for a typical user. If you ran a special tool to constantly write 24/7/365 at max speed to the drive you MIGHT use it up in 5 years.

 

[AbRASiON]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: AbRASiON

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: AbRASiON

Originally posted by: Nizology
I wanna know how many people are droppin $450 for the 160gb. Is that really worth it right now?

Better than the old G1 price - a lot of us hardcore geeks can't bear to wait any longer, I know it'll be 199$ US in 9 months but I've had it with slow drives, I can't bear it anymore.

I just need an optomisation and tips guide, do I keep my swap file on the SSD? (6gb) do I keep my TMP and TEMP directories? What about my user profile? Etc.

this drive is faster than any ssd... ignore optimizations guides, they are for jmicron drives only.

Don't be silly.
Optimization for drive life is important to me, if this thing was simply going to hold a single 160gb file which is sequentially written and read sure, but Windows 7 as an OS has thousands of files, some updated all the time, some tiny files, some large files.
Also I've been moving /temp/ and /my documents/ and /swap/ to another drive for 10 years - I'm very used to that, do I still do it and what are the benefits- I intend to find out if no one else has

it is important to you to perform useless optimizations that will degrade your experience and possibly performance for absolutely no discernible benefit?

drive life on the intels is ridiculous... in the hundreds of years for a typical user. If you ran a special tool to constantly write 24/7/365 at max speed to the drive you MIGHT use it up in 5 years.

Are you new to IT and computers by any chance? Perhaps new to anandtech? Please confirm - because if you don't know how to tweak, tune and optomise a PC then you really don't belong here.
If you're suggesting that no tweaks will help anything at all, well perhaps you're right! but I see no articles confirming this, no studies, no links to forums posts saying "hey guys, I've tried X" or "hey guys, I've tried Y" - none of that, I see a couple of people making assumptions.

For all I know keeping my swap file on another drive may still yeild better results, maybe the temp files on another disk may help.
Perhaps having /tmp/ on an SSD completely wears the drive out faster than one would expect.
That's the point of me asking about it, not expecting rude, stubborn replies with assumptions and no facts.
Go back to IRC

 

[taltamir]

taltamir
Diamond Member

Posts: 7375
Joined: 03/21/2004

yea, sure, its my first anand post. I am gonna ignore that IRC comment and give you valuable information that you seem to want me to explicitly list instead of just accepting "you don't need to to do the optimizations"

Keeping swap file on spindle drive = improves performance on jmicron, DEGRADES performance on intel
Having temp directory on drive = affects lifespan of ancient USB thumb drives, no real effect on lifespan modern SSDs, certainly not on an intel which should last forever.
Moving the temp directory to spindle drive = higher performance on jmicron, lower performance on intel / good SSD
Disabling superfetch = increases performance on jmicron, degrades performance on intel.
disabling indexing = increases performance on jmicron, no effect on intel and makes searches take forever

Now there are a few things you NEED to do if running XP, like disable background defragging and manually align the partitions... BUT, you don't need to with windows7, which is the only OS you should run on an SSD.

Oh wait... there is one.. TURN ON AHCI... that is the only "optimization" needed for intel SSD + win7... which is a pretty good one to do. But you should be running it anyways, even with spindle drive.

You might notice that the majority of those "optimizations" are basically moving stuff from the SSD to a spindle drive... why did it help? because the jmicron SSD are VASTLY INFERIOR to ANY spindle drive on the market.
You may notice that moving those things to a spindle drive from the intel DECREASES performance... why is that? because the intel drive is VASTLY SUPERIOR to ANY spindle drive.

Bottom line is, you should throw your jmicron SSD in the trash, and if you have a QUALITY SSD that is actually FASTER than a spindle drive, then put everything ON the SSD to maximize performance. (the faster the drive it is on, the faster your computer runs... go figure)

 

[AbRASiON]

See that's a much more reasonable response - thanks
I'll be running a 160gb intel on an i7 with Windows 7 and a 160gb intel on a C2D with 2gb and Windows XP - I know the partition alignment is gonna be an issue :/
Also I wanna clone my current Windows 7 install to the new SSD when it arrives, however I gotta figure out how to clone from WD750gb regular platter disk to an SSD and maintain the partition alignment.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I've got to concur with AbRASiON in principle here. SSDs are still new and their exact performance characteristics in certain scenarios haven't really been empirically hashed out yet. More data, more experiments, more real-world science going on = good.

Although I'd say it's already obvious that your temp directories and documents should go on the SSD. About the only things not worth putting on the SSD are videos, large archive files/ISOs/etc., and maybe music.

 

[AbRASiON]

That's pretty logical (iso's, music, movies) but the question is, what small files are a benefit to keep off?
I mean for example, I keep My Documents on another disk, purely for backup purposes - I also like to keep temp on another disk (traditionally) to ensure C: doesn't bloat out in size.
(I specifically run with an OS only partition for easy re-imaging - so it's about 40gb at most)

It's very likely these guys are right about /temp/ /swap/ and so on but I am concerned it could cause me hassles.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: AbRASiON
That's pretty logical (iso's, music, movies) but the question is, what small files are a benefit to keep off?
I mean for example, I keep My Documents on another disk, purely for backup purposes - I also like to keep temp on another disk (traditionally) to ensure C: doesn't bloat out in size.
(I specifically run with an OS only partition for easy re-imaging - so it's about 40gb at most)

It's very likely these guys are right about /temp/ /swap/ and so on but I am concerned it could cause me hassles.

I don't think any small files are good to keep off the SSD. Small files are what the SSD excels at. Keep the big files off the SSD (not because the SSD performs badly with them, but just to make more space for the small ones).

Also, how does keeping documents on a different disk help with backing up?

 

[taltamir]

if running really old games that do not have a proper install function. or if using a a PS / PS2 emulator which can read an iso directly, than putting the ISO on the SSD improves performance a lot since those do not install. but generally speaking ISOs should go on a "storage drive"

 

[ilkhan]

Originally posted by: AbRASiON
Are you new to IT and computers by any chance? Perhaps new to anandtech? Please confirm - because if you don't know how to tweak, tune and optomise a PC then you really don't belong here.

While Ive had run-ins with taltamir being a whiny know it all unwilling to look beyond his own thoughts and get to the "why?" before, in this case he's one of the few people on the forum currently running an intel G2 drive, so you might want to listen to him.

The only (consumer side) way to getting faster temp file performance than an intel drive is multiple intels or a ramdisk, and Im not sure that anybody would be able to tell the difference with either one of those. The ONLY superior use for magnetic drives is low-cost-high-volume storage.

 

[Idontcare]

ram-based SSD's definitely have their advantages in the IOP dept, but they are a real pain in the ass to maintain on a day-in day-out basis.

I've relied on mine (both iram and superspeed ramdisk) for speeding up log-file rate-limited computations, works like a charm for that. But if I didn't need it for that one specific application then I'd probably have never gotten into using them.

That said, based on the benches I've seen for the flash-based SSD's I fully expect that a Vertex or a G1/G2 could fully replace my ram-based SSD and my specific application would be none for the worse with the step-down in IOPs.

 

[SeanFL]

[/quote]

>Also, how does keeping documents on a different disk help with backing up?[/quote]

I use the same process; all my documents are on a different partition on my hard drive. That way, all I have to do is backup the entire partition to another place and I'm set. If you keep docs, music, photos, etc. as part of the standard windows process of putting them on 'c', you'll have to go digging every time you want to back up your data.

Also, imaging the OS becomes much easier if you don't have 30+ gigs of pictures, media, etc. to go with it.

Hope I answered what you were asking. And I can't wait for my G2 to show up today!

Sean

 

[Old Hippie]

Originally posted by: taltamir

taltamir
Diamond Member

Posts: 7375
Joined: 03/21/2004

Keeping swap file on spindle drive = improves performance on jmicron, DEGRADES performance on intel
Having temp directory on drive = affects lifespan of ancient USB thumb drives, no real effect on lifespan modern SSDs, certainly not on an intel which should last forever.
Moving the temp directory to spindle drive = higher performance on jmicron, lower performance on intel / good SSD
Disabling superfetch = increases performance on jmicron, degrades performance on intel.
disabling indexing = increases performance on jmicron, no effect on intel and makes searches take forever

I've been using a G1 since the first of May and a JMicron GSkill Titan before that.

I believe I've played with all those tweaks in various combinations including a RAM drive and 80GB VR for file swapping.

All tweaks using a RAM drive helped the Titan but I don't notice any difference with the Intel unit.

As long as this drive lasts 3-5 yrs I'll be a happy-hippy-camper. :beer:

 

[bbarry]

I will be running a ramdisk for my development work, along side my G2 for everyday tasks. I never would have run one before because I have been running into the win32 4GB barrier for a few years now and iram cost too much. But now I have 12GB of ram and I expect to rarely run past 6GB for the reasonable future. This makes a ramdisk much easier to swallow.

That said, I might see myself running a small ramdisk that doesn't store itself back on disk on shutdown for a temp dirs. All files would be lost when doing so. I might also get a caviar black at some point for those large files where the SSD is not yet the optimal solution. Perhaps in the near future a ramdisk will be included in many peoples normal configuration for those non-persistant files. Right now it seems like the optimal solution is:
1. ramdisk for non-persistant "temp" files which do not need to exist after reboot
2. ramdisk for actively used data (source code you are working on, etc.)
3. SSD for OS/Applications/small-files (small files being things like documents, not music/video/isos)
4. HDD for large-file storage (due mostly to the small size of SSDs)

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start another thread for [potential] performance optimizations of SSDs. At the very least it would be more visible than leaving it past the 18th page of a thread which is covering the availability of the G2 drives.

 

[bbarry]

My 160 G2 from Newegg should be here tomorrow.

For the 160GB (out of stock):
BLT G2C1; 477.81 http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin...C4879P.shtml&order_id=
BLT G2R5; 483.56 http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin...C5241P.shtml&order_id=
ZZF G201 X25-M; 433.99: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10010798
ZZF G201 X18-M; 433.99: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10010802 (warning 1.8 inch form factor)
ZZF G2C1; 433.99: http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10010793
Newegg G2C1; 449.00: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820167017

For the 80GB (out of stock):
BLT is out of G2R5, selling at 254.61 http://www.shopblt.com/cgi-bin...C5240P.shtml&order_id=
ZZF G201 X25-M; 223.25 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10010797
ZZF G201 X18-M; 223.25 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10010801 (warning 1.8 inch form factor)
ZZF G2C1; 227.99 http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/...p?ProductCode=10010790
Newegg G2C1; 229.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820167016

Anywhere else to watch?

notes:
Newegg has gotten the 160 in stock twice now but both times they sold out very quickly.
BLT got one of them in stock once so far. It is heavily backordered right now (the next shipment of 80s are already sold twice over).
BLT has increased its prices since I last looked.
ZZF hasn't gotten them in stock yet and still has mistakes in their listing (I notified them on Monday and nothing has yet been done).

 

[taltamir]

do the X18 perform the same as X25?

 

[bbarry]

Apparently I am wrong after looking into it (there is G2 X18s, there is not G1 X18s).

The G1 X18s appear to function exactly like their X25 counterparts nearest I can tell (I don't know of any reviews). The X18s are made for even smaller devices like tablets and netbooks. It looks like the difference between the X18 and X25 is simply the arrangement of the PCB. I would venture to guess that the X18 is actually slightly better performing than the X25 due to shorter wires (though this affect would be negligible and on the order of nanoseconds; similar to the performance difference between the closest flash cell vs the farthest flash cell on an X25).

Looking deeper what I don't get is why Intel is even selling X25s. Why not just sell X18s in a box to make them compatible with the 2.5 inch form factor? The only guess I can come up with is that it might be cheaper to keep the fabrication system working for the X25 to be ready to ship 320GB X25s.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: SeanFL

Also, how does keeping documents on a different disk help with backing up?

I use the same process; all my documents are on a different partition on my hard drive. That way, all I have to do is backup the entire partition to another place and I'm set. If you keep docs, music, photos, etc. as part of the standard windows process of putting them on 'c', you'll have to go digging every time you want to back up your data.

Hope I answered what you were asking. And I can't wait for my G2 to show up today!

Sean

Oh. You shouldn't have to go digging to do backups! They should be automated!

Originally posted by: bbarry
Looking deeper what I don't get is why Intel is even selling X25s. Why not just sell X18s in a box to make them compatible with the 2.5 inch form factor? The only guess I can come up with is that it might be cheaper to keep the fabrication system working for the X25 to be ready to ship 320GB X25s.

Ditto. I'm chomping at the bit to see everything get miniaturized. We spent far too long stuck on 5.25" & 3.5". I'm ready for tiny computers!

 

[AnalyticalGuy]

Originally posted by: bbarry

Perhaps it would be a good idea to start another thread for [potential] performance optimizations of SSDs. At the very least it would be more visible than leaving it past the 18th page of a thread which is covering the availability of the G2 drives.

+1

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

I think I'm going to do a little scientific study on the worthwhile-ness of using swap with the Intel SSD (on Linux, anyway). It should be pretty easy to test, and I haven't seen anyone else do so yet (and I've googled).

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

80GB in stock at Newegg! Just ordered mine!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820167016

 

[Mongoloid]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
80GB in stock at Newegg! Just ordered mine!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820167016

Awesome...thanks for the heads up!

 

[nydennis]

Thanks for the heads up. Ordered mine. 2 minutes later it was out of stock. Also noticed they raised the price slightly on it after I bought it. Used the 10% as well.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Now it says they're out of stock for a couple days and the price is up by $10! Hope you guys pounced on that while it was there...

 

[linster]

Out of stock again, with the ETA once again at 8/28 and the price increased to $239.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

ETA is 09/02 at Newegg now. And up $10 again! $249 now.