Question new Intel build - DDR4 vs. DDR5

[Turbonium]

I'm thinking of building a new Intel system. Should I go with DDR5, or is DDR4 "good enough" for anything but synthetic benchmarks?

I'll mostly be doing general usage, some content creation, and lots of gaming.

I've heard that newer memory controllers have issues with 4 sticks. Do they with 2? And which is more stable with these memory controllers, DDR5 or DDR4?

I get these are basic questions, but I figured I'd ask.

 

[Shmee]

DDR4 or DDR5, it depends. I personally would think good DDR4 is enough, it should certainly be cheaper. Keep in mind your memory performance may depend on CPU and motherboard. Did you have a motherboard and CPU in mind? For instance, I recall hearing that the locked Alder Lake CPUs have trouble with faster DDR4 (past DDR4 3600 I believe). Not sure about the Raptor Lake CPUs.

I am not sure about number of DIMMs used, again it probably depends, and is often related to total capacity, ranks per channel, and desired speed. Do you know how much memory you will be getting, or do you have any products in mind? 32GB is fine for gaming IMO, but you may or may not need more for your specific use, particularly in relation to content creation.

 

[Turbonium]

There's a good chance I'm going for the i5-13600KF, with 64GB (2x32GB) RAM (maybe 2x16GB).

Likely going for a business/enterprise-grade motherboard (see thread), once the 700 series chipsets are released (which I'm assuming they will be). Basically, something like this but with a newer chipset (I'm somewhat partial to Asus for motherboards).

 

[igor_kavinski]

If at some point you need 128GB RAM, DON'T go with DDR5. Speeds drop atrociously low with 4 sticks.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Pro Q670M-C-CSM - Tech Specs｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

The Pro Q670M-C-CSM supports Intel® socket LGA1700 for 12th Gen Intel® processors, and is equipped with outstanding features, including PCIe 4.0 support, DDR5 4800*, two M.2 PCIe 4.0 slots, M.2 slot only (Key E), Four USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports, front USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-C®, Intel® Optane Memory...

www.asus.com

Specs don't say anything about RAM support.

Pro Q670M-C-CSM｜Motherboards｜ASUS USA

The Pro Q670M-C-CSM supports Intel® socket LGA1700 for 12th Gen Intel® processors, and is equipped with outstanding features, including PCIe 4.0 support, DDR5 4800*, two M.2 PCIe 4.0 slots, M.2 slot only (Key E), Four USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports, front USB 3.2 Gen 1 Type-C®, Intel® Optane Memory Ready...

www.asus.com

This mobo is a horrible choice for DDR5. You will be limited to stupid DDR5-4800.

 

[Khanan]

DDR5 may only be a very small upside now but it will get better with time and the prices have come down a lot for DDR5, so I would buy the newer memory modules. The upside is, you could also use them on in the next system, with DDR4 this will not be possible.

 

[igor_kavinski]

The upside is, you could also use them on in the next system, with DDR4 this will not be possible.

But what if the current speed happens to be lower than the official DDR5 base speed required for the next CPU? Suppose someone gets DDR5-6400 now but the next CPU starts with JEDEC DDR5-7000 spec. Then you would be running your brand new CPU below spec, if it even boots with slower RAM.

For me, DDR4 advantages currently outweigh DDR5's shortcomings, unless I really need the extra bandwidth and don't mind limited to two sticks.

 

[Khanan]

But what if the current speed happens to be lower than the official DDR5 base speed required for the next CPU? Suppose someone gets DDR5-6400 now but the next CPU starts with JEDEC DDR5-7000 spec. Then you would be running your brand new CPU below spec, if it even boots with slower RAM.

Then he can at least use it until he buys new one, “under spec” is still usable. And you’re just speculating we are far away from 7000 being the floor for new CPUs. Could very well never happen.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Could very well never happen.

OK, you will hear from me if it happens

 

[Khanan]

OK, you will hear from me if it happens

There’s only “highest supported” and recommendations, there is no floor, so yes it will never happen .

 

[igor_kavinski]

There’s only “highest supported” and recommendations, there is no floor, so yes it will never happen .

Official recommended is floor to me, like DDR5-5600 is the floor for Raptor Lake.

 

[Khanan]

Official recommended is floor to me, like DDR5-5600 is the floor for Raptor Lake.

Yes but it’s not the floor and for Ryzen 3000-5000 it’s not nearly the floor, 3200 with CL14 is quite good.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yes but it’s not the floor and for Ryzen 3000-5000 it’s not nearly the floor, 3200 with CL14 is quite good.

We were talking about DDR5

 

[Khanan]

We were talking about DDR5

And? General rules for memory don’t change with generations. Highest supported != not nearly “floor”. It’s highest supported. Maybe not the best of the best, but even then there can be an argument with best timings on lower clocks vs highest clocks but worse timing, eg 3200 cl14 vs 3600 CL16. No difference, if anything the former is better. Will be the same with DDR5. Maybe even better, DDR5 always has high bandwidth but atrocious timings that will probably help more to get better timings

 

[igor_kavinski]

You know how to tire me out with your arguments. I give up!

Happy?

 

[Khanan]

You know how to tire me out with your arguments. I give up!

Happy?

Never wanted to tire you out buddy (but you started right?). ))))

 

[Tech Junky]

@Khanan

It's your money and your can do whatever you want with it. General consensus is if you're building today not two generations from now you get the same performance from ddr4 as 5 for an overall savings if about $200. DDR 5 in 2 gen time from now won't be the same as what you get then either. It's possible with the way things are changing at the speed they are DDR 6 will be the next step.

 

[Khanan]

@Khanan

It's your money and your can do whatever you want with it. General consensus is if you're building today not two generations from now you get the same performance from ddr4 as 5 for an overall savings if about $200. DDR 5 in 2 gen time from now won't be the same as what you get then either. It's possible with the way things are changing at the speed they are DDR 6 will be the next step.

You can also say whatever you want, as you didn’t address any of my points they are still absolutely true and valid. What you said is just generalized nonsense and has nothing to do with my posts.

And also I don’t see why you are personally attacking me here? Take me on ignore if you have a problem with me

 

[Tech Junky]

DDR5 may only be a very small upside now but it will get better with time and the prices have come down a lot for DDR5, so I would buy the newer memory modules. The upside is, you could also use them on in the next system, with DDR4 this will not be possible.

This is false. DDR4 will be round for quite awhile if MOBO OEMs push back on Intel to keep it around. They already lost that fight with AMD though with AMD pushing DDR5 exclusively moving forward AM4+.

What Intel does with MTL / ARL though could make a forced move to DDR5 by not allowing the CPU to use the DDR4 wiring like AMD did.

Then he can at least use it until he buys new one, “under spec” is still usable. And you’re just speculating we are far away from 7000 being the floor for new CPUs. Could very well never happen.

You're both speculating since if it doesn't exist then it's not real.

And? General rules for memory don’t change with generations. Highest supported != not nearly “floor”. It’s highest supported. Maybe not the best of the best, but even then there can be an argument with best timings on lower clocks vs highest clocks but worse timing, eg 3200 cl14 vs 3600 CL16. No difference, if anything the former is better. Will be the same with DDR5. Maybe even better, DDR5 always has high bandwidth but atrocious timings that will probably help more to get better timings

But they do and did going from DDR4 >> DDR5

Standards & Documents Search | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

I'm not paying JEDEC to see what their postings are since they're $600+ for DDR4/5 to compare them.


With the standards you change just about everything--- speed/voltage/bus/etc.

You also moved the control from the MOBO to the chip going to DDR5. Splitting a single stick into dual channel as well.

If we're looking at performance I would suggest the deficit is within the controller on the stick being the choke point.

There's just a bunch of stuff that doesn't add up to what was promised and hyped about DDR5 even a year out from the initial releases. Sure, it's something coming whether you like it, embrace it, or not but, there's still a choice right now.

 

[Khanan]

This is false. DDR4 will be round for quite awhile if MOBO OEMs push back on Intel to keep it around. They already lost that fight with AMD though with AMD pushing DDR5 exclusively moving forward AM4+.

What Intel does with MTL / ARL though could make a forced move to DDR5 by not allowing the CPU to use the DDR4 wiring like AMD did.


You're both speculating since if it doesn't exist then it's not real.


But they do and did going from DDR4 >> DDR5

Standards & Documents Search | JEDEC

www.jedec.org

I'm not paying JEDEC to see what their postings are since they're $600+ for DDR4/5 to compare them.
View attachment 74483

With the standards you change just about everything--- speed/voltage/bus/etc.

You also moved the control from the MOBO to the chip going to DDR5. Splitting a single stick into dual channel as well.

If we're looking at performance I would suggest the deficit is within the controller on the stick being the choke point.

There's just a bunch of stuff that doesn't add up to what was promised and hyped about DDR5 even a year out from the initial releases. Sure, it's something coming whether you like it, embrace it, or not but, there's still a choice right now.

I see absolutely nothing in this post which can question or challenge the facts I presented. As you didn’t really go into detail either I don’t have to address it further

 

[Tech Junky]

I see absolutely nothing in this post which can question or challenge the facts I presented. As you didn’t really go into detail either I don’t have to address it further

Where are your facts?

 

[Khanan]

Where are your facts?

I’m done with this discussion. Not talking to people that have axes to grind or do other weird things bye

edit:

suffice to say that if someone buys a good ddr5 kit now, with good timings which possibly has the opportunity to be tuned good as well (which a lot are right now) it will serve him or her well for a long time.

example: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/g-skill-flare-x5-ddr5-6000-cl32-amd-2x-16-gb/9.html a reasonable kit, not even high end.

 

[Tech Junky]

I’m done with this discussion. Not talking to people that have axes to grind or do other weird things bye

edit:

suffice to say that if someone buys a good ddr5 kit now, with good timings which possibly has the opportunity to be tuned good as well (which a lot are right now) it will serve him or her well for a long time.

You still haven't substantiated anything you've babbled on about in this thread.

The difference in performance between the two options is negligible for the premium you pay for the overall system when going DDR5.

 

[lopri]

I see no reason to pick up new DDR4 at this point. DDR5 is not much more expensive unless you are looking at Corsair stuff.

 

[Tech Junky]

I see no reason to pick up new DDR4 at this point. DDR5 is not much more expensive unless you are looking at Corsair stuff.

DDR4 is cheap and works well.

If you're not doing a mix and match upgrade and a complete rebuild from the ground up to sell a complete prior system it makes sense. I picked up 16GB of RAM for $60 and only really need 4GB for the OS so, it's a bit overkill but, no issues with it. 16GB of DDR5 usually runs about $130 and then you have the board pricing to deal with on top of it. It all adds up to not much better running.

If you want to spec out a machine for DDR5 it will cost you more to get the same performance of a DDR4 system with the same benchmarks. The only different pieces are the MOBO / RAM.