New info leaked about the Xbox Scorpio doesn't indicate it is a new generation

[Tweak155]

I was pleasantly surprised by the hardware bump. They went a bit further than I anticipated, but it's definitely not a new gen type step. I am pretty happy with the S right now though, I'll have to see what incentives they provide, if any, to become an early adopter. Otherwise I'll just get one when I need another Xbox (mine breaks, get a secondary entertainment setup, etc).

 

[HOOfan 1]

I liked Gears of War 4 slightly better than Uncharted 4. Uncharted 4 took too long to get started. Gears of War is a better shooter, while Uncharted tells a better story.

 

[cmdrdredd]

They also need some new IP's. Halo, Forza, Gears ... all that shit has become so stale it's just the same shit over and over but with more powerful graphics, and it's not like the story's are that great. I dunno but a game like Uncharted I don't feel bored playing even in part 4 (although I wasn't dying to play it at launch either, I started it a month ago and it was put on hold for Zelda) but with a game like Gears or the new Halo I just have no desire to even give them a try and play them. I think it's because Uncharted is so cinematic that it's more like playing a movie than either of those games.

That and the last halo was absolute garbage and gears...the game just feels old and sluggish to me. If they are going to keep them going they need to get some new ideas and such.

 

[Skel]

They also need some new IP's. Halo, Forza, Gears ... all that shit has become so stale it's just the same shit over and over but with more powerful graphics, and it's not like the story's are that great. I dunno but a game like Uncharted I don't feel bored playing even in part 4 (although I wasn't dying to play it at launch either, I started it a month ago and it was put on hold for Zelda) but with a game like Gears or the new Halo I just have no desire to even give them a try and play them. I think it's because Uncharted is so cinematic that it's more like playing a movie than either of those games.

I feel like all platforms need this, not just the Xbox. All I've really seen this gen is sequels to old IPs and remakes of games I've already played out on older gens. I haven't really seen that many new must haves. All this power and all we get is more of the same.. Having said that.. I'll still probably buy this when it drops. I don't play the PS4 much as I prefer the controller of the Xbox, and haven't seen the need to switch from the "elite" Xbox One to the "S".

 

[Lil Frier]

I am hoping Microsoft can announce some new exclusives at the coming E3. The problem is, they don't have as many big name First Party Studios as Sony.

343 will be working on a new Halo...and it will probably be announced this E3
The Coalition will be working on Gears of War 5...not sure if it will be announced at E3
Rare is working on Sea of Thieves.
Turn 10 will be working on Forza

Maybe Mojang will announce a new Minecraft

Honestly, Microsoft probably needs to spend some money getting quality First Party developers

Phil Spencer already confirmed that there will NOT be a new Halo or Gears for this year. Even if either made it to E3 (maybe Halo, but 100% not Gears), it would still be a year off because that's a tentpole franchise you release for the holiday season. Sea of Thieves also looks like a VERY niche sandbox co-op game. It doesn't seem to have the kind of broad appeal and content to be Minecraft-like. Forza is also insanely iterative, as they just throw a few tracks out and tell you to run the same storyless campaign yet again (the campaign is just a bunch of redundant races in a pre-defined series). Forza will need VR (and not just "put it on top of your eyes" VR) or some kind of massive shift in its content (adding rally racing or a full NASCAR/IndyCar experience or bikes or something). I bought FM6 early on and was impressed with the water and IndyCar stuff, but I gave up in a hurry because I simply didn't feel like barreling through Silverstone for the 18 millionth times.

They also need some new IP's. Halo, Forza, Gears ... all that shit has become so stale it's just the same shit over and over but with more powerful graphics, and it's not like the story's are that great. I dunno but a game like Uncharted I don't feel bored playing even in part 4 (although I wasn't dying to play it at launch either, I started it a month ago and it was put on hold for Zelda) but with a game like Gears or the new Halo I just have no desire to even give them a try and play them. I think it's because Uncharted is so cinematic that it's more like playing a movie than either of those games.

I agree with the initial point, Microsoft needs new IP. Not just new IP though, IP that sticks. Dumping out second-party, one-off stuff (Ryse, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Screamride, others I forget) isn't driving them, even if you're someone who thought Sunset Overdrive was a totally badass game and loads of fun (me). I absolutely agree that Gears and Forza Motorsport are way too similar to their predecessors to keep carrying the console. However, any suggestion that Halo doesn't make changes and is constantly the same thing is patently absurd. If that were the case, you wouldn't have such a division in the fan base. I wouldn't abhor Halo 5 for all of its asinine changes. You wouldn't have Halo 4 blasted by many for its CoD-like additions. Halo is a lot of bad things to me right now, thanks to the horrendous campaign and multiplayer maps, but it is the furthest thing from "the same shit over and over" I can come up with in a franchise that doesn't rotate dev teams like CoD.

I was pleasantly surprised by the hardware bump. They went a bit further than I anticipated, but it's definitely not a new gen type step. I am pretty happy with the S right now though, I'll have to see what incentives they provide, if any, to become an early adopter. Otherwise I'll just get one when I need another Xbox (mine breaks, get a secondary entertainment setup, etc).

Really? They promised 4K and VR. They are using a GPU that is just a bit above the VR entry-level 480. It seems to be exactly what you'd expect from a 6 TFLOPS claim--something just above the 480 that's rated a little under 6 TFLOPS.

I feel like all platforms need this, not just the Xbox. All I've really seen this gen is sequels to old IPs and remakes of games I've already played out on older gens. I haven't really seen that many new must haves. All this power and all we get is more of the same.. Having said that.. I'll still probably buy this when it drops. I don't play the PS4 much as I prefer the controller of the Xbox, and haven't seen the need to switch from the "elite" Xbox One to the "S".

You're not paying attention. Did you miss Bloodborne? Nioh? Horizon: Zero Dawn? Shadow of Mordor? Dying Light? The Evil Within? Splatoon? Breath of the Wild? Sunset Overdrive? Ryse? Quantum Break? The Division? For Honor? Yes, that's a lot of third-party stuff, but while we've gotten WAY more sequels and remakes than some of these franchises deserved (who the hell was asking for Darksiders II to get a re-release?), we're not without new content from any side. However, Microsoft is severely dropping the ball after dumping a bunch of dev teams internally and canceling Platinum Games' Scalebound.

Also, if you like the XB1 controller, why not just get an input adapter for the PS4 over buying a whole new console?

 

[purbeast0]

I just mean that Halo is still "Halo" of course there are different mechanics. It's not even close to being as similar in iterations as COD or GoW, but you are right there is still a pretty noticeably difference between the versions. Part 4 felt like a completely new game, and it kinda was being made by (I think ) 949 studios after Bungie no longer made them.

Like I'm a huge God of War fan, and I LOVE how the new one coming out is basically a reimagining of the series. It looks completely different in terms of gameplay and style, which is great. As mentioned, Uncharted 4 is basically identical to Uncharted 1 except it has updated graphics. But something about that game I love and I think it's just that the presentation is so cinema like and the voice acting/chemistry between the characters just sucks me into those games immediately. It's basically playing a AAA movie.

 

[Anubis]

the hardware bump is nice but as others have said Games is what sells consoles and that is where MS is really lacking. in the past i owned both a playstation and xbox. this gen there has been zero reason to purchase one. to me the 4K BR capability of the XB1s is the only compelling thing it had and now that doesn't matter as stand alone 4k BR players now cost less

 

[zerocool84]

This thing is easily going to be $500 which if they actually care about selling these is not good. It's great that it's a powerhouse but it's going to be be too expensive. It makes sense why the PS4 Pro wasn't that powerful, they didn't want a super expensive console.

 

[cmdrdredd]

This thing is easily going to be $500 which if they actually care about selling these is not good. It's great that it's a powerhouse but it's going to be be too expensive. It makes sense why the PS4 Pro wasn't that powerful, they didn't want a super expensive console.

Yep I have said that for a while. If they want to sell consoles they can't be priced way over the competition when the games are the same. That leads to another problem. Companies now have 4 targets for performance between the Xbox one, Scorpio, PS4 and PS4 pro. I do not believe for a second that they are going to prioritize the Scorpio over anything else, not when the numbers are so much higher for the other systems. So what does that mean for the extra power there? It could go untapped from all but first party titles.

 

[purbeast0]

I dunno MS could take a hit on the console to get them out there. They have done it in the past so I see them doing it again. I'd be surprised if it's anymore than $400.

 

[KentState]

Yep I have said that for a while. If they want to sell consoles they can't be priced way over the competition when the games are the same. That leads to another problem. Companies now have 4 targets for performance between the Xbox one, Scorpio, PS4 and PS4 pro. I do not believe for a second that they are going to prioritize the Scorpio over anything else, not when the numbers are so much higher for the other systems. So what does that mean for the extra power there? It could go untapped from all but first party titles.

There are actually 5 targets since all Xbox games are on PC either from 3rd party or Play Everywhere. I suspect that it's going to be pretty easy with the MS development stack to target variable hardware running DX12 or at least that'swhat they are working towards.

 

[cmdrdredd]

There are actually 5 targets since all Xbox games are on PC either from 3rd party or Play Everywhere. I suspect that it's going to be pretty easy with the MS development stack to target variable hardware running DX12 or at least that'swhat they are working towards.

Problem is that console games are set at fixed performance targets. You don't get to tweak settings like pc. I've seen this on the PS4 pro vs the standard PS4 where you have a game run worse but look better and you can't adjust individual things to tweak that. You have general options and that's it.

Now having a game perform well on Xbox and then perform well on pc should be easy but I have seen games perform absolutely terrible on pc but fine on the xb1. Crazy stuff

 

[Tweak155]

Really? They promised 4K and VR. They are using a GPU that is just a bit above the VR entry-level 480. It seems to be exactly what you'd expect from a 6 TFLOPS claim--something just above the 480 that's rated a little under 6 TFLOPS.

Yeah although TBH I wasn't following all that closely. I like the bump.

 

[Topweasel]

Problem is that console games are set at fixed performance targets. You don't get to tweak settings like pc. I've seen this on the PS4 pro vs the standard PS4 where you have a game run worse but look better and you can't adjust individual things to tweak that. You have general options and that's it.

Now having a game perform well on Xbox and then perform well on pc should be easy but I have seen games perform absolutely terrible on pc but fine on the xb1. Crazy stuff

That is the part that I think MS is trying to avoid with Scorpio. It seem much more like their thought process was hey develop a game that runs as good on a Xboxone as you want it and then it should be able to hit "X" performance on Scorpio. If you want to then optimize Scorpio performance with extra changes (higher rez textures, more effects, different performance barriers, then so be it. Where the PS4p seemed to start life as a "the way it was meant to be played" system. Where the console has enough performance to convince devs to develop console specific optimizations for the PS4p, but it was more on the devs to do just that. Meaning there was a high likelihood that PS4 games in the next couple years would have sticker, or some branding for "for the best experience play on the PS4pro". I think Microsoft specifically wanted to get away from, they want the Xbone to still be the target platform, they just want Scorpio owners to always see a performance or eye candy benefit across the board.

I think this is really going to help both companies out in the long run. System development costs will be cheaper. Outside replacement consoles, those console sales will mean larger player bases. Shorter cycles on performance upgrades allow for more sustained console premiums. Like the Xbox which went from $400-$500 now down to about $220, but now with a probable $400 premium model. Once it gets down to $250, they can retire the gen 1 Xbone, Release a Xbone.3. The devs will have the choice to continue to leverage the OG Xbone market or at that point establishing the base line at Scorpio and let the Xbone 1.3 be the scaled up. You can even see in the more Polaris arch, which is as a GCN based arch, massive performance evolution, even though on the PC it's one of the slowest evolving archs in GPU history. It also aligns up well for die shrunk single CCX vega descendant APU in 4 years. Meaning a huge shift in performance. It won't cost devs that much to develop for, it will give the power there to a be a marketable improvement on Scorpio/PS4p. Which puts us in a weird spot. Right now with Scorpio over the PS4p but both trying to be the 4k console, chances are the next upgrade will basically drag these Version 2 consoles back down to 1080. Otherwise they both have reboot the consoles ( so instead of being Ver 3 of gen8) as Gen 9 consoles. Compatibility with the Xbone/Scorpio, and PS4/PS4p would still exist but you would would just be playing those at the Version 2 settings and then the Gen 9 consoles become baselines for new games. Personally I kind of expect 3rd version so they can keep the player-base and development baselines going for longer. Like someone said above that's what the devs want. But I find it hard for them to offer a 3rd version as yet another increase in current performance, as the drive of at least Scorpio is to allow for 60 FPS 4k, a version 3 doing a resolution higher than that seems unlikely and at some point you need to remove the Xbone/PS4 baselines. Without a clear cut shift though it would be hard to get the devs to shift over.

TLDR;
This is kind of good for us. Really good for Devs and MS/Sony. But on the other hand really makes the next option in 4-5 years that much harder to figure out. It would be easy to do a third Version, but how does it improve on performance goals Version 2 is setting. If they call it Gen 9 how do they move devs over to it since it would be terrible to remove BC, just to push console sales considering the non-changing platform. The new consoles would have the same 4k goal as the Versions 2 and it would be better sales wise to just to target Version 1 and 2 with 1080/4k goals knowing that version 3/ Gen 9 will have full access to these games. Thinking about that, MS really needs to work on its 1st party work in the next 4 years it might be imperative for the next cycle.

 

[purbeast0]

^^^ If that happens I simply won't be supporting consoles anymore. If I wanted iterative hardware I'd buy a PC to game on.

 

[Dranoche]

I think the original intention was that they release incremental improvements every few years, and then a few years past what would have been a whole new console, they tell everybody that now the 2nd or 3rd version is the new baseline that developers will be held to. People who have hardware versions below the new baseline have now gotten more time out of it than previous cycles, or have gotten it for really cheap, and MS and Sony can slowly phase in things like new effects without having to start over from scratch. The ongoing transition to 4k is not helping, and it's what's throwing so much uncertainty into what the next step after the Pro and Scorpio may look like. I would imagine a couple updates down the road this could go quite smoothly.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Multiple performance targets is just bad. You have games not using the new capability, games needing patches to do so, games that run worse but look a bit nicer, games that give clear advantages to people with the faster model. It's just not good for developers to have to work with. It's easy on pc where you make the game run reasonably well on good hardware and then give the performance options to the end users. On a console you have to have all that set. You can't put sliders for draw distance in there. I guess you could but they won't.

 

[futurefields]

Getting 360 BC on XB1 was huge

Any BC should be a walk in the park now for Microsoft

It's really more of an ecosystem now

Gotta give em props

 

[cmdrdredd]

Getting 360 BC on XB1 was huge

Any BC should be a walk in the park now for Microsoft

It's really more of an ecosystem now

Gotta give em props

Pfft move on already. I want new experiences not to sit around playing decade old games. Same for nintendo's virtual console.

 

[MarkizSchnitzel]

Pfft move on already. I want new experiences not to sit around playing decade old games. Same for nintendo's virtual console.

I suspect this might be a reality.

That being said, I have missed 16 years of Nintendo games now. Llast console I owned was N64. There is a ton of 1st party Nintendo games thatIi do want to play sometime.

 

[Anubis]

wtf is a BC

 

[HOOfan 1]

wtf is a BC

I would assume backwards compatibility

I never bought an Xbox 360, and as soon as Backward Compatibility was implemented I bought an Xbox One. I've played about 6 games on my Xbox One, and of those 4 were Xbox 360 games.

Honestly, the Xbox One doesn't have enough exclusives to make it worth buying for me, but throw in the Xbox 360 exclusives, and I found it worth buying.

I won't buy a Switch until all the Zelda and Mario games are available for it.

I think the NES Classic proves that people still like playing older games.

 

[Dranoche]

I would assume backwards compatibility

I never bought an Xbox 360, and as soon as Backward Compatibility was implemented I bought an Xbox One. I've played about 6 games on my Xbox One, and of those 4 were Xbox 360 games.

Honestly, the Xbox One doesn't have enough exclusives to make it worth buying for me, but throw in the Xbox 360 exclusives, and I found it worth buying.

I won't buy a Switch until all the Zelda and Mario games are available for it.

I think the NES Classic proves that people still like playing older games.

Backwards compatibility wasn't really a thing until the previous generation of consoles. Once the PS2 did it everybody assumed consoles moving forward would continue to do so. A lot of people have a need for it now, and it determines whether or not they'll purchase a new console. I think that speaks more to the current state of software than anything else. Like you said, there aren't enough exclusives, and a lot of the ones that are available are remasters or routine sequels. I never personally felt a need for BC at launch, but in terms of building a long term ecosystem I feel that it's important.

I think it's good that the Scorpio specs got out before E3. Microsoft needs to focus on software to give most people a reason to want the new hardware.

 

[disappoint]

Multiple performance targets is just bad. You have games not using the new capability, games needing patches to do so, games that run worse but look a bit nicer, games that give clear advantages to people with the faster model. It's just not good for developers to have to work with. It's easy on pc where you make the game run reasonably well on good hardware and then give the performance options to the end users. On a console you have to have all that set. You can't put sliders for draw distance in there. I guess you could but they won't.

Why would they need to? Th program can just access which console it's running on and set the quality to the console's capability.

 

[disappoint]

wtf is a BC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BiMYjVvhxE