new Impreza AWD vs Matrix AWD

[SammyJr]

If you were picking an AWD small sedan/wagon, which would you choose and why? I'm looking for safer driving on roads with patchy, incomplete plow jobs.

I am currently only aware of the Impreza and Matrix AWD in this category, so if there others, enlighten me!

 

[NutBucket]

Which flavor of Impreza? 5MT and 4AT have different AWD systems. That said, the Subaru is still better. At any rate, the 4AT Subaru system is typically 90% front/10% rear bias until slip is detected. I think the Toyota system is pure front bias until slip is detected. Personally, I'd buy the Subaru, not just because I have one but because of reputation and because its available with a manual trans. Certainly neither is a bad car, so drive both and see what you like. I'm guessing the Impreza will be better priced.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.c...ru-impreza-25i-5-door/

Also with AWD, Suzuki SX4.

 

[jlee]

Even being a die-hard Toyota guy, I would still go with the Impreza. Unless they've changed, the Matrix is only available in auto.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: JLee
Even being a die-hard Toyota guy, I would still go with the Impreza. Unless they've changed, the Matrix is only available in auto.

Well in truth, Subaru is to Toyota as Mazda is to Ford. Toyota has a HUGE investment in Subaru and the only thing stopping a lot more parts sharing like Mazda/Ford is the fact that this partnership is still fairly new.

I'd personally go for the Impreza, though I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki SX4.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: mwmorph
ell in truth, Subaru is to Toyota as Mazda is to Ford. Toyota has a HUGE investment in Subaru and the only thing stopping a lot more parts sharing like Mazda/Ford is the fact that this partnership is still fairly new.

I'd personally go for the Impreza, though I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki SX4.

What does Toyota having an investment in Subaru matter? They are totally different cars that have nothing in common.

 

[fbrdphreak]

My $0.02 after driving some in the snow with my 06 Legacy GT 5-speed:

For the most part, it really doesn't matter. The main thing AWD will help with is starting up from a dead stop and accelerating with no or little wheel slippage. If the Toyota system is worth a spit, it will change power distribution quickly enough that it won't matter. For turning and stopping, it's all about your tires. Now if you were going to rallycross your car, then the AWD system would certainly make a difference. On the streets where you just need to drive slow & safe, I personally don't think it makes as much of a difference.

That said, I do know the new Subaru's have "VDC" which is their version of stability control, which controls the brakes independantly to control slides. This will only help in the snow if your tires are able to grip, but IMO is a worthwhile feature on a new car. Also, all Subaru's have top safety ratings. Not sure about the Matrix, sorry.

One more tidbit: if you are considering a Matrix, look at the Pontiac Vibe. It is the same exact car except for the badges, literally. Toyota & GM had a deal going there. I bet the Vibe is a lot cheaper than the Matrix and parts shouldn't be a problem long-term since it is just a freakin' Toyota. You should buy it and put Toyota badges on it

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: mwmorph
ell in truth, Subaru is to Toyota as Mazda is to Ford. Toyota has a HUGE investment in Subaru and the only thing stopping a lot more parts sharing like Mazda/Ford is the fact that this partnership is still fairly new.

I'd personally go for the Impreza, though I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki SX4.

What does Toyota having an investment in Subaru matter? They are totally different cars that have nothing in common.

I was responding to the die hard toyota guy about how the industry is interconnected and that "buy japanese", "buy american" or even "buy toyota" mean nothing.

You'd be surprised at the parts commonality, not too much but i know at least 15% is interchngeable.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: mwmorph
ell in truth, Subaru is to Toyota as Mazda is to Ford. Toyota has a HUGE investment in Subaru and the only thing stopping a lot more parts sharing like Mazda/Ford is the fact that this partnership is still fairly new.

I'd personally go for the Impreza, though I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki SX4.

What does Toyota having an investment in Subaru matter? They are totally different cars that have nothing in common.

I was responding to the die hard toyota guy about how the industry is interconnected and that "buy japanese", "buy american" or even "buy toyota" mean nothing.

You'd be surprised at the parts commonality, not too much but i know at least 15% is interchngeable.

I'd be interested to hear some examples, because the drivetrain is totally different. I'd think the very large Subaru enthusiast community would have noticed a parts interchangeability like that by now, but stranger things have happened.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: mwmorph
ell in truth, Subaru is to Toyota as Mazda is to Ford. Toyota has a HUGE investment in Subaru and the only thing stopping a lot more parts sharing like Mazda/Ford is the fact that this partnership is still fairly new.

I'd personally go for the Impreza, though I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki SX4.

What does Toyota having an investment in Subaru matter? They are totally different cars that have nothing in common.

I was responding to the die hard toyota guy about how the industry is interconnected and that "buy japanese", "buy american" or even "buy toyota" mean nothing.

You'd be surprised at the parts commonality, not too much but i know at least 15% is interchngeable.

I'd be interested to hear some examples, because the drivetrain is totally different. I'd think the very large Subaru enthusiast community would have noticed a parts interchangeability like that by now, but stranger things have happened.

I don't know how to put it but I dont mean the Impreza and Matrix share parts, I'm talking about the parts in the subie catalog that have direct replacements in the Toyota catalog.

The small stuff like alternators, window regulators and misc stuff you can find are common parts you can get from the Toyota catalog which makes sense (Toyota has moved subie into their supplier network). Toyota owns 16.5% of Fuji Heavy which means they have a decent amount of control as to where Subie is headed.

I have seen the part sheets and no, you're not going to say anthing about them being cousins but you can tell they've started to become more related. You wouldn't expect GM and Fiat to share say, vaccum line suppliers or injectors but many of the toyota and subie parts share origin SKUs. In fact the indiana plant owned by subaru pumps out Camrys and Legacys side by side.

 

[NutBucket]

Originally posted by: mwmorphYou'd be surprised at the parts commonality, not too much but i know at least 15% is interchngeable.

This I gotta hear. What are you going to tell me, nuts and bolts? Lets see, completely different drivetrains, suspension setups, brakes, you name it.

Besides that, the current generation Impreza platform is based on the Legacy/Outback platform which was all new for '05, before Toyota was ever involved. I'd love to hear your evidence of this supposed interchangeability.

 

[NutBucket]

16.5% is hardly a controlling interest. GM had that same share and played no part of the process. That I know of, about the only tie in ever seen was that GM rebadged Foresters and sold them as Chevys in some markets.

 

[fbrdphreak]

Anyway - nothing to do with the topic at hand...

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
16.5% is hardly a controlling interest. GM had that same share and played no part of the process. That I know of, about the only tie in ever seen was that GM rebadged Foresters and sold them as Chevys in some markets.

16.5% of not Subaru but FUJI Heavy. Thats ownership of the parent corporation.

GM had a higher share in its prime but they didn't do anything because they didn't want or need anything from Subaru. GM not having anything to do with Subie was more because corporate had no idea where they wanted to go with it. If GM really wanted Subaru for anything besides as a investment, they wouldn't have been so hasty to drop the stock, the majority of which they dumped on the open market.

Toyota on the other hand is much more involved, more like the Nissan ownership from 1968. Toyota is actually using Subaru technology wise for their diesel truck expertise. Toyota has sunk a fist full of cash in and they are going to get their money's worth as well as protect their investment. If you think Toyota has no control over where Subaru goes product and business wise, you are looking at the world through an odd perspective.

You could see it last year, Subaru has never concentrated on 2 doors, their last 2 door sports car was the flop know as the SVX, the Subaru image is not in need of a sports coupe... and yet Toyota pushed one through to the planning stages before economic conditions killed it.

More recently, you can see Subaru getting hybrid tech from Toyota in preparation for their 2012 Legacy.

Toyota and Subaru are absolutely intertwined, not bade engineered mind you but if you think Toyota does not have a heavy influence in where Subie is headed, you're in for a surprise.

edit: On topic, maybe look for a good FWD car with VSC. The thing about AWD is that it only helps when accelerating. Turning is still a 2 wheeled affair and braking had always been 4 wheels. If you dont limit yourself to just AWD, I think you can get a lot more flexibility in your choice of vehicle. AWD is nice but I'm not exactly sold that its really that much better than a FWD on proper snow tires.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: NutBucket
Which flavor of Impreza? 5MT and 4AT have different AWD systems. That said, the Subaru is still better. At any rate, the 4AT Subaru system is typically 90% front/10% rear bias until slip is detected. I think the Toyota system is pure front bias until slip is detected. Personally, I'd buy the Subaru, not just because I have one but because of reputation and because its available with a manual trans. Certainly neither is a bad car, so drive both and see what you like. I'm guessing the Impreza will be better priced.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.c...ru-impreza-25i-5-door/

Also with AWD, Suzuki SX4.

Thanks for the link. Its exactly what I was looking for.

I'm looking at the auto since my wife will be driving it occasionally, too.

 

[alkemyst]

F350 4WD

 

[Bignate603]

Whichever is cheaper if you put the money saved towards an extra set of wheels with snow tires on them. IMHO the tires will make more of a difference than you'll see between the cars.

 

[zerocool84]

Get something with higher ground clearance if you intend on driving over snow.

 

[RGUN]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: NutBucket
16.5% is hardly a controlling interest. GM had that same share and played no part of the process. That I know of, about the only tie in ever seen was that GM rebadged Foresters and sold them as Chevys in some markets.

16.5% of not Subaru but FUJI Heavy. Thats ownership of the parent corporation.

GM had a higher share in its prime but they didn't do anything because they didn't want or need anything from Subaru. GM not having anything to do with Subie was more because corporate had no idea where they wanted to go with it. If GM really wanted Subaru for anything besides as a investment, they wouldn't have been so hasty to drop the stock, the majority of which they dumped on the open market.

Toyota on the other hand is much more involved, more like the Nissan ownership from 1968. Toyota is actually using Subaru technology wise for their diesel truck expertise. Toyota has sunk a fist full of cash in and they are going to get their money's worth as well as protect their investment. If you think Toyota has no control over where Subaru goes product and business wise, you are looking at the world through an odd perspective.

You could see it last year, Subaru has never concentrated on 2 doors, their last 2 door sports car was the flop know as the SVX, the Subaru image is not in need of a sports coupe... and yet Toyota pushed one through to the planning stages before economic conditions killed it.

More recently, you can see Subaru getting hybrid tech from Toyota in preparation for their 2012 Legacy.

Toyota and Subaru are absolutely intertwined, not bade engineered mind you but if you think Toyota does not have a heavy influence in where Subie is headed, you're in for a surprise.

edit: On topic, maybe look for a good FWD car with VSC. The thing about AWD is that it only helps when accelerating. Turning is still a 2 wheeled affair and braking had always been 4 wheels. If you dont limit yourself to just AWD, I think you can get a lot more flexibility in your choice of vehicle. AWD is nice but I'm not exactly sold that its really that much better than a FWD on proper snow tires.

Subaru produced very popular Impreza coupes for years well after the SVX was gone. The SVX is a sought after car today as well, much like the Supra and 300ZX, they were just priced too high for the market.

Also, when I pull apart my 2007 STI, I find tons of Nissan parts and Mitsubishi parts on common things.

As far as the AWD systems, there are some videos around that compare different AWD systems abilities to maintain traction on differing surfaces. Look it up, most systems are incredibly disappointing. Im not sure if the Matrix falls into this catagory, but might be worth it to find out.

 

[SilentZero]

My wife drives a Impreza WRX wagon. Here in upstate NY we get some pretty bad snow, and it handles great for her (even better with snow tires).

 

[evident]

i think impreza wins

 

[lurk3r]

Night and day, Impreza wins, with the manual having a 50/50 split and the auto being "smart" with the 90/10 until something slips as someone mentioned above. Subaru's and Toyotas have nearly nothing in common, they may share a few tier 1 OEM's, but that will have nothing to do with how the car behaves.

Also if you have much more than a foot of snow, neither of these will move.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: mwmorph

Originally posted by: NutBucket

Originally posted by: mwmorph
ell in truth, Subaru is to Toyota as Mazda is to Ford. Toyota has a HUGE investment in Subaru and the only thing stopping a lot more parts sharing like Mazda/Ford is the fact that this partnership is still fairly new.

I'd personally go for the Impreza, though I have heard nothing but good things about the Suzuki SX4.

What does Toyota having an investment in Subaru matter? They are totally different cars that have nothing in common.

I was responding to the die hard toyota guy about how the industry is interconnected and that "buy japanese", "buy american" or even "buy toyota" mean nothing.

You'd be surprised at the parts commonality, not too much but i know at least 15% is interchngeable.

shared parts is due to OEM, not the cars themselves. Look at the new generation Corolla and the last generation 3 (grand touring trim)... the controls look really similiar. Do not be surprised if you see cars with the same steering wheel now either. Fact of the matter is that everyone is looking to cut costs, which means they will get parts from the cheapest supplier/OEM that meets their standards for that model. This translates into different companies buying the same parts because their is usally one company that can undercut everyone at one given time.