New HTPC System

[vetteguy]

I'm working on putting together a HTPC. I've decided to go with a mobile Athlon XP for cost/heat reasons, as well as to take advantage of the nVidia Soundstorm for 5.1 output. This is the system I've got spec'd so far:

Corsair Value Select 2x512MB PC-3200

Ahanix D4 Media Center Case

Swiftech Heatsink MCX462-V

Vantec "Stealth" 80mm Case fan, Model "SF8025L"

(2) Seagate 160GB 7200.7 SATA

Abit NF7-S NForce2 motherboard

Mobile 35 Watt Athlon XP-M 2200+

My video card will be a Radeon All-in-Wonder 9800 Pro (I already have the card)

Thoughts? I realize the PC-3200 is way overkill for that mobo/CPU, but it's actually cheaper than the PC2100 or PC2700, so I figured why not.

 

[3chordcharlie]

PC3200 isn't overkill at all - you should be running 200fsb with that chip and motherboard.

btw I LOVE the box, I'm jealous!

 

[kamaboko]

what's your OS going to be?

 

[vetteguy]

Originally posted by: kamaboko
what's your OS going to be?

Windows XP Pro

 

[piasabird]

Did you read the article on the front page about using multiple tuners? Dont know if that is too radical or not. I wonder if there is software for Picture In a Picture PIP.

 

[vetteguy]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Did you read the article on the front page about using multiple tuners? Dont know if that is too radical or not. I wonder if there is software for Picture In a Picture PIP.

I saw it, but I'm not really interested in doing something like that. I'm not planning on watching TV through the box, but rather to use it for recording TV shows for later playback, playing movies/DIVX stuff, music, etc. And maybe some light gaming.

 

[Goi]

What display and sound system is this gonna be hooked up to? Also, don't mean to rain on your parade, but generally P4s are better suited for HTPC usage than AMD CPUs.

 

[vetteguy]

Originally posted by: Goi
What display and sound system is this gonna be hooked up to? Also, don't mean to rain on your parade, but generally P4s are better suited for HTPC usage than AMD CPUs.

It's going to hook up to my 50" Panasonic HDTV (LCD Projection) via DVI. I have a Denon receiver going to a Bose Accoustimass speaker setup.

What specific application(s) are P4s considered to be better at for HTPC use? For most of this stuff there's not going to be any hurry.

 

[Goi]

Do I hear Bose? Hehe...

P4s are better if you're gonna be doing any sort of video post-processing via ffdshow. Many avid HTPC enthusiasts do that, including rescaling to HD resolutions, sharpening, denoise3d, de-interlace, etc. All these are operations that will kill any AMD processor, even the A64s. In fact, P4s can barely handle them either unless u have a 3+GHz model.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Goi
Do I hear Bose? Hehe...

P4s are better if you're gonna be doing any sort of video post-processing via ffdshow. Many avid HTPC enthusiasts do that, including rescaling to HD resolutions, sharpening, denoise3d, de-interlace, etc. All these are operations that will kill any AMD processor, even the A64s. In fact, P4s can barely handle them either unless u have a 3+GHz model.

Can these things be done at recording time, so it just takes longer to process incoming video before it is ready to be viewed? Or do they have to run at playback time (maybe PCI-E will end up helping someday if that's the case)

He obviously went for 'bang for the buck' and there's absolutely no way any intel system could be as fast as this one for the price.

 

[Goi]

I'm actually not talking about cable TV being the source. These operations are usually done on DVD source video, or any other kinda recorded video, and it's done on the fly in real time, if you have a system fast enough. If not, you will experience stutters, dropped frames, or audio/video not in sync.

Doing these operations when you're recording will lead to a much larger disk space usage as now you'll have a lot more information to store. I'm not even sure if that's possible though I think it's not.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Goi
I'm actually not talking about cable TV being the source. These operations are usually done on DVD source video, or any other kinda recorded video, and it's done on the fly in real time, if you have a system fast enough. If not, you will experience stutters, dropped frames, or audio/video not in sync.

Doing these operations when you're recording will lead to a much larger disk space usage as now you'll have a lot more information to store. I'm not even sure if that's possible though I think it's not.

Thanks - just wondering since I know nothing of these filters and such things.

My htpc only exists in theory and in pieces at this point, and will definitely be too slow to handle this (1.2ghz palomino, maybe XP1800 later) so my interest is pretty much academic.

 

[vetteguy]

To be honest, I've never even heard of ffdshow. Like I said, the usage (at least at first) is going to be very light. If I want a movie, I buy it, because I like collecting DVDs and I don't like the hassle of fiddling with it on a PC. The only movies I'd be using this for are ones that I can't readily get on DVD or that I wanted to do something special with (can't think of any examples at this minute). As far as getting a P4, I really don't want to spend 2-3 times as much just for the processor, plus I would also lose the nVidia Soundstorm realtime 5.1 encoding.

 

[manko]

I've been looking into putting together an HTPC lately too. If you're planning to get an HDTV tuner in the future, I've seen mentions of more problems with AMD systems vs. P4 systems, especially with the new ATI HDTV Wonder. It probably has more to do with the motherboard chipsets and the software drivers/compatibilty than than the AMD CPU itself, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

[3chordcharlie]

For DVR duties, is there anything lower-end than a 9600 all-in-wonder? I seem to recall a 5200 media version, but I don't know if it's workable, etc.

Video cards, especially special versions, seem to be REALLY expensive in Canada.

NM - it's only $30 to go from home theatre 5200 to A-I-W 9600!

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: vetteguy
To be honest, I've never even heard of ffdshow. Like I said, the usage (at least at first) is going to be very light. If I want a movie, I buy it, because I like collecting DVDs and I don't like the hassle of fiddling with it on a PC. The only movies I'd be using this for are ones that I can't readily get on DVD or that I wanted to do something special with (can't think of any examples at this minute). As far as getting a P4, I really don't want to spend 2-3 times as much just for the processor, plus I would also lose the nVidia Soundstorm realtime 5.1 encoding.

It's the HT equivalent of audiophilia, basically. There are a few sites on it. Personally I don't have the money or interest, and my own HTPC (see sig) has a barton 2600+ mobile, but if it's your thing you may want to look into it before deciding on your purchases. avforums should be a good start, if you're interested. If not, the system you've outlined should be plenty good for the non-ultra-enthusiast. You can noticeably increase image quality with the proper money & knowledge.

 

[Goi]

Originally posted by: vetteguy
To be honest, I've never even heard of ffdshow. Like I said, the usage (at least at first) is going to be very light. If I want a movie, I buy it, because I like collecting DVDs and I don't like the hassle of fiddling with it on a PC. The only movies I'd be using this for are ones that I can't readily get on DVD or that I wanted to do something special with (can't think of any examples at this minute). As far as getting a P4, I really don't want to spend 2-3 times as much just for the processor, plus I would also lose the nVidia Soundstorm realtime 5.1 encoding.

That's no problem. I agree that at its price point, the Athlon XP has no competition. I was just letting you know of your alternatives, and what can be achieved with the right equipment. So, are you implying that you won't be watching DVDs on your PC? That would be a pity, because DVD output on a HTPC can be, and is usually much better than from a standalone DVD player.

 

[vetteguy]

Originally posted by: Goi

Originally posted by: vetteguy
To be honest, I've never even heard of ffdshow. Like I said, the usage (at least at first) is going to be very light. If I want a movie, I buy it, because I like collecting DVDs and I don't like the hassle of fiddling with it on a PC. The only movies I'd be using this for are ones that I can't readily get on DVD or that I wanted to do something special with (can't think of any examples at this minute). As far as getting a P4, I really don't want to spend 2-3 times as much just for the processor, plus I would also lose the nVidia Soundstorm realtime 5.1 encoding.

That's no problem. I agree that at its price point, the Athlon XP has no competition. I was just letting you know of your alternatives, and what can be achieved with the right equipment. So, are you implying that you won't be watching DVDs on your PC? That would be a pity, because DVD output on a HTPC can be, and is usually much better than from a standalone DVD player.

I guess I hadn't thought too much about it. For the best DVD playback quality, however, don't you really need a dedicated scaler? Everything I've read seems to point in that direction.

 

[Goi]

That was what I was alluding to. With a powerful enough HTPC with software such as ffdshow, you can match or even beat dedicated scalers that cost several times the price of a HTPC.

Even a basic HTPC without any scaling software would be a better DVD player than many off the shelf DVD players in most cases.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Goi
That was what I was alluding to. With a powerful enough HTPC with software such as ffdshow, you can match or even beat dedicated scalers that cost several times the price of a HTPC.

Even a basic HTPC without any scaling software would be a better DVD player than many off the shelf DVD players in most cases.

What's wrong with the component output of a DVD player? I know composite isn't too great, but I thought component was supposed to be quite good. (<---more video-ignorance)

 

[vetteguy]

Originally posted by: Goi
That was what I was alluding to. With a powerful enough HTPC with software such as ffdshow, you can match or even beat dedicated scalers that cost several times the price of a HTPC.

Even a basic HTPC without any scaling software would be a better DVD player than many off the shelf DVD players in most cases.

My only concern with that is, even using DVI, the image quality on my HDTV from my 9800 isn't as good as I'd like it to be. I have it set to 720p, 60hz, etc, but there still is some slight image stuttering and blurriness. I haven't actually tried playing a movie on it, however.

 

[Goi]

3chordcharlie, component is good, but DVI is better
Also with a video card you can set it to the native resolution of your projector.

Hmm, not too sure about that. The 9800Pro should be pretty good as far as image quality goes.

 

[AndrewKu]

Originally posted by: vetteguy

Originally posted by: Goi
That was what I was alluding to. With a powerful enough HTPC with software such as ffdshow, you can match or even beat dedicated scalers that cost several times the price of a HTPC.

Even a basic HTPC without any scaling software would be a better DVD player than many off the shelf DVD players in most cases.

My only concern with that is, even using DVI, the image quality on my HDTV from my 9800 isn't as good as I'd like it to be. I have it set to 720p, 60hz, etc, but there still is some slight image stuttering and blurriness. I haven't actually tried playing a movie on it, however.

Yup yup... you just said it. We just finished playing around with HDTV component out. Stick with a native resolution output as opposed to HDTV resolutions. The image is generally crisper and there are less headaches with overscan.

 

[vetteguy]

Originally posted by: AndrewKu

Originally posted by: vetteguy

Originally posted by: Goi
That was what I was alluding to. With a powerful enough HTPC with software such as ffdshow, you can match or even beat dedicated scalers that cost several times the price of a HTPC.

Even a basic HTPC without any scaling software would be a better DVD player than many off the shelf DVD players in most cases.

My only concern with that is, even using DVI, the image quality on my HDTV from my 9800 isn't as good as I'd like it to be. I have it set to 720p, 60hz, etc, but there still is some slight image stuttering and blurriness. I haven't actually tried playing a movie on it, however.

Yup yup... you just said it. We just finished playing around with HDTV component out. Stick with a native resolution output as opposed to HDTV resolutions. The image is generally crisper and there are less headaches with overscan.

How then does that affect image quality when, say, watching a DVD that is formatted for a specific resolution? (like a 16x9 enchanced or 2.35:1). My TV supports up to 720p (1280x720) natively...if I do something other than that, won't the image be distorted?

 

[AndrewKu]

Well with macrovision you really aren't watching at 720p....

And as far as distortion goes, it is going to depend on the quality of your TV and how big the screen is.