New HD Camcorder

[TangoJuliet]

So my wife is expecting our first child in June and I wanted to purchase a HD camcorder to capture the little one. This is a 2 part question - how easy is it to edit HD movies in iMovie and can anyone recommend a good hd camcorder?

I was browsing around the Digital and Video cameras forum here and looks like the Canon HF100 is a nice pick. However, it does seem a little old and was wondering if anything better has come out.

My budget is around $1000 but I would prefer to keep it to about $600-750 or so.

 

[LtPage1]

I can recommend iMovie as an editor, whole-heartedly. It's really, really easy to use, and there are a ton of surprisingly useful and cool features. I don't know much about current HD camcorders, though.

 

[Kaido]

Canon HF100 ($530)
37mm UV filter ($4)
Rode VideoMic
VoltaicHD ($35)

Camera's aren't like computers parts in terms of being updated every 2-3 months...the HF100 is considered "brand new", it just came out last year. It supports 1080p and records to an SDHC memory stick. The nice thing is that it's a pure digital recording, so can import easily. AVCHD requires a sick computer to edit (like it's slow on 3.2ghz 8-core Macs), so you can use VoltaicHD to transcode it into a more appropriate format like ProRes. The UV filter is simply to protect the lens; if you scratch or break it, it's a $4 repair rather than a $400 repair. The RodeVideo mic is an awesome aftermarket mic; audio is 50% of any video, so if you want good recordings, get good audio. It will look goofy on top of the HF100 because it's bigger than the camera is, but it will give you fabulous audio. There's also the Canon HF10 and HF11, the HF11 being the newest & best, but it also costs $300 more at $849. But it has full 24mbps AVCHD recording, so you get a better picture:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...A_HF11_AVCHD_Dual.html

Next you'll want some kind of tripod. The hallmark of an amatuer filmer is shaky video. There are a number of options - a tripod, a flexible tripod, a bean bag tripod, etc. If you get a normal tripod, you'll want one with a fluid head to get nice, smooth pans and tilts (regular tripods don't have this and will be extremely jerky). The Velbon DV-7000 is the best bang-for-your-buck tripod at $110 with a fluid head:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...Tripod_with_2_Way.html

For your situation, you may prefer something like a Gorillapod, which is a small flexible tripod that you can use on the ground (at the baby's eye-level), attached to a crib, attached to a stroller or carseat, etc. The SLR-Zoom model will fit the HF100 and costs $50:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...xible_Mini_Tripod.html

Bean bag tripods are nice because you can toss them anywhere and don't need to extend legs or anything. Also good in cars because they dampen vibrations. The Red Pod will fit the HF100 and costs $17:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...d_Camera_Platform.html

Get a nice padded MiniDV bag, a couple of Class 6 SDHC cards (8gb minimum), and some cheap batteries off eBay (I get the Hong Kong kind with the A/C & Car chargers, you can usually snag those with a pair of batteries for like $20 shipped). 1TB hard drives are $99 nowadays (I recommend the Samsung F1 1TB for silent & speedy operation). So a good basic kit:

1. Canon HF100 ($530)
2. UV filter to protect the lens ($4)
3. Rode VideoMic ($150)
4. Spare batteries from eBay ($20)
5. (2) 8gb Class 6 SDHC memory cards ($20 each, $40 total)
6. VoltiacHD file converter software ($35)
7. Gorillapod ($50)
8. MiniDV bag ($20)

That fits your budget at $850. You might also want to get a ball head for the Gorillapod if you go that route, it lets you move the camera at different angles without having to move the tripod, handy if you attach it to the crib and the baby moves around. They have a Gorillapod with a Ballhead for $70 here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...xible_Mini_Tripod.html

The basic idea is to have the right tools to get good results, and then to have a workflow set up that you understand how to use. A tripod gives you a stable picture, the VideoMic gives you great audio, and then you have a couple memory cards and batteries to work with during the day. For importing, you plug the card into the computer, transcode the clips with VoltiacHD, and then import it into iMovie and add titles, transitions, basic color correction, and so on. Spit it out with iDVD to a DVD movie disc or stream it to your HTPC/Playstation/Xbox/whatever.

Congrats on the upcoming arrival btw!

 

[TangoJuliet]

Wow, Kaido thanks for all of that!!! Now heres a little problem. My parents gave me a $300 gift card to Best Buy for xmas to use towards the camera. I have $150 in AMEX gift cards and I have about $250 in AMEX rewards so thats $700 right now that I can use. The HF100 is $700 at BBY right now as opposed to the price you quoted above ($530). I'm not sure if I should go and put the BBY gift card on ebay or see if my mom can return it for the $300 back.

Also, not sure if B&H is a good place for me to shop because they are based in NY and I would have to pay sales tax. Just doing a quick search the egg has the HF100 for $595.

I guess to also give you an idea with the equipment I am working with here:

24" imac 3.06ghz C2D Extreme, 4GB 800mhz DDR2, 750GB HDD. I have an external 1TB Raid FW800 drive

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Wow, Kaido thanks for all of that!!! Now heres a little problem. My parents gave me a $300 gift card to Best Buy for xmas to use towards the camera. I have $150 in AMEX gift cards and I have about $250 in AMEX rewards so thats $700 right now that I can use. The HF100 is $700 at BBY right now as opposed to the price you quoted above ($530). I'm not sure if I should go and put the BBY gift card on ebay or see if my mom can return it for the $300 back.

Also, not sure if B&H is a good place for me to shop because they are based in NY and I would have to pay sales tax. Just doing a quick search the egg has the HF100 for $595.

I guess to also give you an idea with the equipment I am working with here:

24" imac 3.06ghz C2D Extreme, 4GB 800mhz DDR2, 750GB HDD. I have an external 1TB Raid FW800 drive

Well, those gift cards are basically free money, so even if it costs more from Best Buy, you're not shelling anything out of pocket. OTOH, sales tax probably wouldn't be more than $50, which still brings you in at $15 cheaper than Newegg. If you mom can return the gift card, that gives you $700 to work with at B&H, which minus the camera with sales tax would be about $120. You could use that for the Gorillapod with Ball Head, two Memory Cards, and UV filter ($70, $40, and $4, respectively). The only thing left would be a padded bag to throw everything in, the $35 conversion software, and optionally the Rode VideoMic. A note on the microphone - the HF100 won't sound terrible because there's no tape inside, which means there's no motor running, which means that you'll get pretty clean audio. So the VideoMic could either be something you get now to finish off your kit, and shell out $150 out of pocket, or just nix it and go with onboard and perhaps upgrade at a future date.

Your iMac looks like a beast! iMovie 08 is very, very fast and does like instant preview renders on your footage. I have no idea how it works because even Final Cut isn't instant, but iMovie 08 is amazing! If you encode your video to ProRes (a good native Apple format), you can expect about 1.33gb per minute of footage. Remember this is roughly 30fps of 1920x1200 stills so the space adds up quick! Your 1TB external drive will hold about 11-1/2 hours of HD footage in ProRes format. At the lowest quality setting, the HF100 can hold about 3 hours per 8gb card, so it's a much more efficient format to work with - if you plan on archiving the original footage, you will probably just want to copy it from the memory stick to save on space and just use ProRes while editing.

 

[randomlinh]

Well, you could also always try selling the BB gift card for like $275 or something on CL.

Kaido, is AVCHD that bad? I'd be tempted to just get an HV20 instead, heh. But gotta find one.. and real transfer does suck... but bigger sensor.

 

[Goosemaster]

Originally posted by: randomlinh
Well, you could also always try selling the BB gift card for like $275 or something on CL.

Kaido, is AVCHD that bad? I'd be tempted to just get an HV20 instead, heh. But gotta find one.. and real transfer does suck... but bigger sensor.

AVCHD is h.264 and it is REALLY processor intensive. REALLY.

Keep in mind that if you like the older version of iMovie it is available for download on apple's site. I am not sure if tht version supports AVC though.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Wow, Kaido thanks for all of that!!! Now heres a little problem. My parents gave me a $300 gift card to Best Buy for xmas to use towards the camera. I have $150 in AMEX gift cards and I have about $250 in AMEX rewards so thats $700 right now that I can use. The HF100 is $700 at BBY right now as opposed to the price you quoted above ($530). I'm not sure if I should go and put the BBY gift card on ebay or see if my mom can return it for the $300 back.

Also, not sure if B&H is a good place for me to shop because they are based in NY and I would have to pay sales tax. Just doing a quick search the egg has the HF100 for $595.

I guess to also give you an idea with the equipment I am working with here:

24" imac 3.06ghz C2D Extreme, 4GB 800mhz DDR2, 750GB HDD. I have an external 1TB Raid FW800 drive

Well, those gift cards are basically free money, so even if it costs more from Best Buy, you're not shelling anything out of pocket. OTOH, sales tax probably wouldn't be more than $50, which still brings you in at $15 cheaper than Newegg. If you mom can return the gift card, that gives you $700 to work with at B&H, which minus the camera with sales tax would be about $120. You could use that for the Gorillapod with Ball Head, two Memory Cards, and UV filter ($70, $40, and $4, respectively). The only thing left would be a padded bag to throw everything in, the $35 conversion software, and optionally the Rode VideoMic. A note on the microphone - the HF100 won't sound terrible because there's no tape inside, which means there's no motor running, which means that you'll get pretty clean audio. So the VideoMic could either be something you get now to finish off your kit, and shell out $150 out of pocket, or just nix it and go with onboard and perhaps upgrade at a future date.

Your iMac looks like a beast! iMovie 08 is very, very fast and does like instant preview renders on your footage. I have no idea how it works because even Final Cut isn't instant, but iMovie 08 is amazing! If you encode your video to ProRes (a good native Apple format), you can expect about 1.33gb per minute of footage. Remember this is roughly 30fps of 1920x1200 stills so the space adds up quick! Your 1TB external drive will hold about 11-1/2 hours of HD footage in ProRes format. At the lowest quality setting, the HF100 can hold about 3 hours per 8gb card, so it's a much more efficient format to work with - if you plan on archiving the original footage, you will probably just want to copy it from the memory stick to save on space and just use ProRes while editing.

Amazon has the camera for $529 no tax, free shipping. If it is possible to return the gift card then I can pick it up right now.

Of all the HD cameras which one would you definitely recommend - with a budget of about $1000?

I'm not totally up to speed on video editing so please bear with me. Let me see if I understand this correctly - the camera shoots sort of in a compressed format? Once I transfer the file from the camera to the computer I have to decompress/edit it into a format where I can put it on a dvd or something?

At the highest quality setting how much would the 8gb card hold? Can I go higher then 8 say 16 or are the recording speeds on the 16s not up to par or are they just too expensive right now?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: Goosemaster

Originally posted by: randomlinh
Well, you could also always try selling the BB gift card for like $275 or something on CL.

Kaido, is AVCHD that bad? I'd be tempted to just get an HV20 instead, heh. But gotta find one.. and real transfer does suck... but bigger sensor.

AVCHD is h.264 and it is REALLY processor intensive. REALLY.

Keep in mind that if you like the older version of iMovie it is available for download on apple's site. I am not sure if tht version supports AVC though.

My 3.0ghz Quad + 8GB RAM Hackintosh gets pwned by AVCHD if that tells you anything. Anytime someone gives me AVCHD footage, the FIRST thing I do is pop it into VoltaicHD for transcoding. ProRes is just so much easier to work with and talks to everything.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Amazon has the camera for $529 no tax, free shipping. If it is possible to return the gift card then I can pick it up right now.

Of all the HD cameras which one would you definitely recommend - with a budget of about $1000?

I'm not totally up to speed on video editing so please bear with me. Let me see if I understand this correctly - the camera shoots sort of in a compressed format? Once I transfer the file from the camera to the computer I have to decompress/edit it into a format where I can put it on a dvd or something?

At the highest quality setting how much would the 8gb card hold? Can I go higher then 8 say 16 or are the recording speeds on the 16s not up to par or are they just too expensive right now?

If your budget is for the camera:

1. Canon HV30: Uses a MiniDV tape. Pros - best quality, has more manual controls. Con - must import each tape 1:1 (realtime), has motor noise so you must use an external mic to get rid of that if you don't like it. About $550.
2. Canon HF11: The best full-digital (to Memory Card, not Digital Tape) camcorder imo (HV30 having the top picture quality, but the HF11 comes close and is digital so it's a bit easier to work with as far as importing files). Full 24mbps AVCHD. About $850.
3. Canon HF10: Lesser version of the HF11, 17mbps AVCHD. Good quality, not quite as good as the 24mpbps on the HF11. About $750.
4. Canon HF100: Great consumer digital camcorder. 17mbps. Not as good as the HF11, but most people won't be able to tell a difference. About $550.

It kind of depends on your eye as well as your budget. A lot of people I've shown footage to can't see the difference, but to me the difference is as plain as night and day. But then, I'm a visual quality freak so I notice the differences. The HF100 is an awesome camera and gives really great footage and is AMAZING for the price. If you want to go digital a la memory card for convenience but still want top footage, get the HF11. If you want the best quality with the most manual controls for a consumer camera at this pricepoint, go with the tape-based HV30.

I would really love the convenience of a pure digital camera like the HF11, but I also like the controls and quality from the HV20 I have (older version of the HV30). The downside is that you have to work with tapes, which are cheaper than memory cards but can only really be used so many times and require 1:1 import via Firewire. So if you record a 2 hour movie, you have to import it for 2 hours, then transcode it into an editable format. Not a huge deal, but if you want convenience go with the digital camera. Unless you're a film geek, it's just much easier to only have to deal with transcoding digital video clips rather than doing that plus having to import in real time.

Regarding the recording situation - Canon cameras that record to memory cards use the digital AVCHD format. This is the same format as Blu-ray. The max bitrate (quality) is 24mbps. The more bits, the more image, the better the quality (although many people can't tell a difference between 17mbps and 24mbps). The problem is, it's a VERY processor-intensive codec and modern computers struggle with editing it. Even my "super computer" with 4 cores at 3.0ghz each struggles with it. So what you do is convert the AVCHD recording into a visually lossless format, meaning you can't see a difference between the AVCHD format and the new format, and that visually lossless format is easier for your computer to work with. Bottom line is that you need to convert it to a friendlier format for your computer to be able to edit videos quickly.

At the highest quality setting, the HF100 can hold about an hour's worth of footage on an 8gb memory card. You can definitely go with a 16gb card. You'll want to get a Class 6 card, which means that it records fast. I prefer going with a couple smaller memory cards because (1) they're usually much cheaper, (2) you have a spare if one breaks or you lose one, and (3) you're usually not recording more than an hour's worth of footage at a time. Usually I just record clips, maybe 5 or 25 minutes long. An hour's worth of footage is like for a wedding or something, it's a dang long time to be recording

Keep in mind that the two key elements are (1) non-shaky footage and (2) good audio. Nothing says amateur like a shaky Youtube video with crappy audio, haha. I highly recommend a tripod and Rode VideoMic. The tripod can either be a traditional one like the Velbon DV-7000 or a portable one like the Gorillapod. I have an upcoming guide on video tripods that I'll post in Digital & Video Camcorders if you want to learn more, but basically the less footage you shoot handheld, the better your movies will be and the more you'll want to watch your footage instead of the DVD sitting on the shelf

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Amazon has the camera for $529 no tax, free shipping. If it is possible to return the gift card then I can pick it up right now.

Of all the HD cameras which one would you definitely recommend - with a budget of about $1000?

I'm not totally up to speed on video editing so please bear with me. Let me see if I understand this correctly - the camera shoots sort of in a compressed format? Once I transfer the file from the camera to the computer I have to decompress/edit it into a format where I can put it on a dvd or something?

At the highest quality setting how much would the 8gb card hold? Can I go higher then 8 say 16 or are the recording speeds on the 16s not up to par or are they just too expensive right now?

If your budget is for the camera:

1. Canon HV30: Uses a MiniDV tape. Pros - best quality, has more manual controls. Con - must import each tape 1:1 (realtime), has motor noise so you must use an external mic to get rid of that if you don't like it. About $550.
2. Canon HF11: The best full-digital (to Memory Card, not Digital Tape) camcorder imo (HV30 having the top picture quality, but the HF11 comes close and is digital so it's a bit easier to work with as far as importing files). Full 24mbps AVCHD. About $850.
3. Canon HF10: Lesser version of the HF11, 17mbps AVCHD. Good quality, not quite as good as the 24mpbps on the HF11. About $750.
4. Canon HF100: Great consumer digital camcorder. 17mbps. Not as good as the HF11, but most people won't be able to tell a difference. About $550.

It kind of depends on your eye as well as your budget. A lot of people I've shown footage to can't see the difference, but to me the difference is as plain as night and day. But then, I'm a visual quality freak so I notice the differences. The HF100 is an awesome camera and gives really great footage and is AMAZING for the price. If you want to go digital a la memory card for convenience but still want top footage, get the HF11. If you want the best quality with the most manual controls for a consumer camera at this pricepoint, go with the tape-based HV30.

I would really love the convenience of a pure digital camera like the HF11, but I also like the controls and quality from the HV20 I have (older version of the HV30). The downside is that you have to work with tapes, which are cheaper than memory cards but can only really be used so many times and require 1:1 import via Firewire. So if you record a 2 hour movie, you have to import it for 2 hours, then transcode it into an editable format. Not a huge deal, but if you want convenience go with the digital camera. Unless you're a film geek, it's just much easier to only have to deal with transcoding digital video clips rather than doing that plus having to import in real time.

Regarding the recording situation - Canon cameras that record to memory cards use the digital AVCHD format. This is the same format as Blu-ray. The max bitrate (quality) is 24mbps. The more bits, the more image, the better the quality (although many people can't tell a difference between 17mbps and 24mbps). The problem is, it's a VERY processor-intensive codec and modern computers struggle with editing it. Even my "super computer" with 4 cores at 3.0ghz each struggles with it. So what you do is convert the AVCHD recording into a visually lossless format, meaning you can't see a difference between the AVCHD format and the new format, and that visually lossless format is easier for your computer to work with. Bottom line is that you need to convert it to a friendlier format for your computer to be able to edit videos quickly.

At the highest quality setting, the HF100 can hold about an hour's worth of footage on an 8gb memory card. You can definitely go with a 16gb card. You'll want to get a Class 6 card, which means that it records fast. I prefer going with a couple smaller memory cards because (1) they're usually much cheaper, (2) you have a spare if one breaks or you lose one, and (3) you're usually not recording more than an hour's worth of footage at a time. Usually I just record clips, maybe 5 or 25 minutes long. An hour's worth of footage is like for a wedding or something, it's a dang long time to be recording

Keep in mind that the two key elements are (1) non-shaky footage and (2) good audio. Nothing says amateur like a shaky Youtube video with crappy audio, haha. I highly recommend a tripod and Rode VideoMic. The tripod can either be a traditional one like the Velbon DV-7000 or a portable one like the Gorillapod. I have an upcoming guide on video tripods that I'll post in Digital & Video Camcorders if you want to learn more, but basically the less footage you shoot handheld, the better your movies will be and the more you'll want to watch your footage instead of the DVD sitting on the shelf

Is there a difference in quality between the hdd based camcorders and flash based? What about the ones that record direct to dvd?

I dont really want to go the tape route even if they are cheaper. I'm not much of an AV geek so the manual controls aren't that big of a deal for me. I just want to video to look good on auto control. What are the biggest difference between the HF10 and the HF100?

Edit: a buddy of mine has a sony hd camcorder and says its pretty good. none of the sonys stack up to the canons?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Is there a difference in quality between the hdd based camcorders and flash based? What about the ones that record direct to dvd?

I dont really want to go the tape route even if they are cheaper. I'm not much of an AV geek so the manual controls aren't that big of a deal for me. I just want to video to look good on auto control. What are the biggest difference between the HF10 and the HF100?

Edit: a buddy of mine has a sony hd camcorder and says its pretty good. none of the sonys stack up to the canons?

HDD-based and Flash-based, all the same - digital files. Avoid ones that record to DVD, those are a pain in the neck and a recurring expense. The HF10 has 16gb of built-in memory (2 hours on high quality) and can also use additional SDHC cards. Beyond that, I think the HF10 has more manual controls. You'll have to do some research to see if there are any differences beyond that, unfortunately I'm still a tape fan I'd say, if you're not going to get the HF11, just get the HF100 and add your own memory cards. It's like $200 more for the HF10 at the same 17mbps bitrate that the HF100 has and maybe some more manual controls that you probably wouldn't use, versus spending that money on a nice microphone and other goodies.

I had a Sony HC7 before my HV20 and while it's good, it's not as good as the Canon. There's a reason that Canon has such a huge cult following - they're amazing cameras! Lots of options (controls and whatnot), great picture quality, etc. The Sonys have a couple nice features like slow-motion and night vision, but the Canon makes up for those in image quality. I really like Canon's 24p mode, it can make your videos look very film-like.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Is there a difference in quality between the hdd based camcorders and flash based? What about the ones that record direct to dvd?

I dont really want to go the tape route even if they are cheaper. I'm not much of an AV geek so the manual controls aren't that big of a deal for me. I just want to video to look good on auto control. What are the biggest difference between the HF10 and the HF100?

Edit: a buddy of mine has a sony hd camcorder and says its pretty good. none of the sonys stack up to the canons?

HDD-based and Flash-based, all the same - digital files. Avoid ones that record to DVD, those are a pain in the neck and a recurring expense. The HF10 has 16gb of built-in memory (2 hours on high quality) and can also use additional SDHC cards. Beyond that, I think the HF10 has more manual controls. You'll have to do some research to see if there are any differences beyond that, unfortunately I'm still a tape fan I'd say, if you're not going to get the HF11, just get the HF100 and add your own memory cards. It's like $200 more for the HF10 at the same 17mbps bitrate that the HF100 has and maybe some more manual controls that you probably wouldn't use, versus spending that money on a nice microphone and other goodies.

I had a Sony HC7 before my HV20 and while it's good, it's not as good as the Canon. There's a reason that Canon has such a huge cult following - they're amazing cameras! Lots of options (controls and whatnot), great picture quality, etc. The Sonys have a couple nice features like slow-motion and night vision, but the Canon makes up for those in image quality. I really like Canon's 24p mode, it can make your videos look very film-like.

Cool, thanks for all your help. I am going to shoot for the HF11 and if I cannot return the gift card then I'll probably go with the HF100.

My first digital camera was a Sony and it was pretty good - that is until i got my hands on a Canon and I have never owned any other digital camera brand.

Does the HF11 have built in memory as well? I'm guessing that would be the case since the HF10 has 16gb. If it does then I'll probably only go with one memory card (8gb) and the bag for now and add other accessories as necessary. Do you think the HF11 needs an additional mic or is the built in mic good for now?

 

[rdp6]

I am a digital camcorder newbie (thanks for the informative posts, Kaido!) and got my HF11 delivered a few days ago. I don't know anything about editing video (as in trimming clips, transitions, color correction, effects, soundtracks, etc.) but I have been using my camcorder and dumping unedited clips to DVD and HD DVD (made a poor decision, long story). Here is what I know:

1.5 hours of max quality/24Mbps (MXP) video stored in the onboard 32GB flash transferred to FW400 hard drive attached to core 2 duo 2.3Ghz macbook pro: ~40 minutes to transfer
Open Toast, select DVD movie (make a disk image on the hard drive), add videos to the conversion queue: ~2 minutes
Let Toast convert AVCHD to MPEG 2 and do all the DVD authoring stuff: 3 hours 1 minute
Burn DVDs: ~12 minutes each (4x media)

I have used Toast to make ~20 minute HD DVDs (on DVD-R media) from other 24Mbps footage (1:1 conversion time-wise) and it was very fast, as if there were (as is probably the case) no conversion whatsoever, just adding titles, menus, and such. Probably took 20 minutes from start to finish. I did copy the AVCHD files off the camera to the FW hard drive first, though. I would expect the same speed for BluRay, but I haven't tried it yet. I will do so as I expect to get a BR player in the near future.

With all this, I'd say that while editing may be intensive at this time, simply dumping clips isn't all that bad. Especially if you want to make unedited HD videos on DVD-R.

As for the camera, I really like it. Wife is not a tech buff, but is very impressed with the christmas gift unwrapping video I took and dumped to DVD, so she doesn't regret the purchase. Camera records about 3 hours (manual says 2:55 but camera says 2:58 or so) at 24Mbps setting, with the onboard 32GB storage, and you can do the math for SDHC cards. I just got 2 16GB SDHC Class 6 cards delivered yesterday. Class 6 is required by the camera to use the highest bit rate, and the camera checks the card. It confirmed that the Transcend cards I bought meet the requirement. I hope that transfers from the card to the computer will be faster, haven't tried it yet.

Also you should know that the included battery lasts a bit less than 1 hour at the 24Mbps setting. I don't know if it lasts longer with a lower bit rate recording but I don't think I'll ever try anything but max quality.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Cool, thanks for all your help. I am going to shoot for the HF11 and if I cannot return the gift card then I'll probably go with the HF100.

My first digital camera was a Sony and it was pretty good - that is until i got my hands on a Canon and I have never owned any other digital camera brand.

Does the HF11 have built in memory as well? I'm guessing that would be the case since the HF10 has 16gb. If it does then I'll probably only go with one memory card (8gb) and the bag for now and add other accessories as necessary. Do you think the HF11 needs an additional mic or is the built in mic good for now?

The HF11 has 32GB built-in PLUS an SDHC slot, so you can really go to town with it. I've read that you can get 3 hours on High Quality with the internal memory, which is a TON. The included battery should last about an hour; I'd recommend picking up a spare so that you can always have one charging and ready to use. Since the HF11 is digital and not tape, it should be an extremely quiet camera. The onboard mic should be fine to start out with. Keep in mind that onboard mics are kind of like stock car speakers...they sound okay, but you can really improve things with an aftermarket installation. Also by having a mic like the Rode VideoMic, it's phsyically pointing at what you're shooting, so if you're recording your new baby it will pick up their sounds a lot better.

At bare minimum, this is the workflow I recommend:

1. Transcode files to edit (VoltaicHD, Roxio, or whatever NLE you're using)
2. Edit clips together with music as you like
3. Do some color correction (a little CC can go a LONG way!)
4. Export to web/DVD/etc.

Stock video is like a stock photo - it looks fine, but a few clicks in Picasa can really make the colors "pop". For easy color correction, I always recommend Magic Bullet Looks - it's a simple system that has pre-defined "looks" to add to your clips, so you can make them warm & glowy and so on really easily. Keep that app in mind if you ever make the jump to Final Cut Pro. For iMovie, there's a great little color correction tool in there that will let you make it warmer, cooler, etc. Definitely invest a few minutes in playing with it because a little tweaking can really enhance the look of your clips

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: rdp6
I am a digital camcorder newbie (thanks for the informative posts, Kaido!) and got my HF11 delivered a few days ago. I don't know anything about editing video (as in trimming clips, transitions, color correction, effects, soundtracks, etc.) but I have been using my camcorder and dumping unedited clips to DVD and HD DVD (made a poor decision, long story). Here is what I know:

1.5 hours of max quality/24Mbps (MXP) video stored in the onboard 32GB flash transferred to FW400 hard drive attached to core 2 duo 2.3Ghz macbook pro: ~40 minutes to transfer
Open Toast, select DVD movie (make a disk image on the hard drive), add videos to the conversion queue: ~2 minutes
Let Toast convert AVCHD to MPEG 2 and do all the DVD authoring stuff: 3 hours 1 minute
Burn DVDs: ~12 minutes each (4x media)

I have used Toast to make ~20 minute HD DVDs (on DVD-R media) from other 24Mbps footage (1:1 conversion time-wise) and it was very fast, as if there were (as is probably the case) no conversion whatsoever, just adding titles, menus, and such. Probably took 20 minutes from start to finish. I did copy the AVCHD files off the camera to the FW hard drive first, though. I would expect the same speed for BluRay, but I haven't tried it yet. I will do so as I expect to get a BR player in the near future.

With all this, I'd say that while editing may be intensive at this time, simply dumping clips isn't all that bad. Especially if you want to make unedited HD videos on DVD-R.

As for the camera, I really like it. Wife is not a tech buff, but is very impressed with the christmas gift unwrapping video I took and dumped to DVD, so she doesn't regret the purchase. Camera records about 3 hours (manual says 2:55 but camera says 2:58 or so) at 24Mbps setting, with the onboard 32GB storage, and you can do the math for SDHC cards. I just got 2 16GB SDHC Class 6 cards delivered yesterday. Class 6 is required by the camera to use the highest bit rate, and the camera checks the card. It confirmed that the Transcend cards I bought meet the requirement. I hope that transfers from the card to the computer will be faster, haven't tried it yet.

Also you should know that the included battery lasts a bit less than 1 hour at the 24Mbps setting. I don't know if it lasts longer with a lower bit rate recording but I don't think I'll ever try anything but max quality.

Hey, I still rock my Xbox 360's HD-DVD drive, so we're in the same boat :laugh:

Dumping unedited clips is just fine. When you go to Blu-ray, you'll find you don't even need to do anything with the clips since Blu-ray runs off AVCHD. The same company that makes VoltaicHD makes a nice little app called RevolverHD that lets you burn Blu-ray compatible AVCHD DVDs straight from clips from the camera:

http://www.shedworx.com/revolverhdmac

Lots of different options to get from point A to point B. A lot of it depends on how much time & interest you have in video editing too...personally I like to tinker, so I enjoy playing with transitions, external microphones, color correction, etc. But the footage out of the camera looks amazing even un-edited. I really love HD camcorders (and the fact that they're affordable to consumers instead of being several thousand dollars!)

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Cool, thanks for all your help. I am going to shoot for the HF11 and if I cannot return the gift card then I'll probably go with the HF100.

My first digital camera was a Sony and it was pretty good - that is until i got my hands on a Canon and I have never owned any other digital camera brand.

Does the HF11 have built in memory as well? I'm guessing that would be the case since the HF10 has 16gb. If it does then I'll probably only go with one memory card (8gb) and the bag for now and add other accessories as necessary. Do you think the HF11 needs an additional mic or is the built in mic good for now?

The HF11 has 32GB built-in PLUS an SDHC slot, so you can really go to town with it. I've read that you can get 3 hours on High Quality with the internal memory, which is a TON. The included battery should last about an hour; I'd recommend picking up a spare so that you can always have one charging and ready to use. Since the HF11 is digital and not tape, it should be an extremely quiet camera. The onboard mic should be fine to start out with. Keep in mind that onboard mics are kind of like stock car speakers...they sound okay, but you can really improve things with an aftermarket installation. Also by having a mic like the Rode VideoMic, it's phsyically pointing at what you're shooting, so if you're recording your new baby it will pick up their sounds a lot better.

At bare minimum, this is the workflow I recommend:

1. Transcode files to edit (VoltaicHD, Roxio, or whatever NLE you're using)
2. Edit clips together with music as you like
3. Do some color correction (a little CC can go a LONG way!)
4. Export to web/DVD/etc.

Stock video is like a stock photo - it looks fine, but a few clicks in Picasa can really make the colors "pop". For easy color correction, I always recommend Magic Bullet Looks - it's a simple system that has pre-defined "looks" to add to your clips, so you can make them warm & glowy and so on really easily. Keep that app in mind if you ever make the jump to Final Cut Pro. For iMovie, there's a great little color correction tool in there that will let you make it warmer, cooler, etc. Definitely invest a few minutes in playing with it because a little tweaking can really enhance the look of your clips

Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

My boss at work said there is another manufacturer that makes something like the WD player but it comes in 500gb and 1TB sizes. Do you know anything about those?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

My boss at work said there is another manufacturer that makes something like the WD player but it comes in 500gb and 1TB sizes. Do you know anything about those?

There's a variety of players on the market, all depends on your budget:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

http://www.tvixbox.com/

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

My boss at work said there is another manufacturer that makes something like the WD player but it comes in 500gb and 1TB sizes. Do you know anything about those?

There's a variety of players on the market, all depends on your budget:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

http://www.popcornhour.com/onlinestore/

http://www.tvixbox.com/

hmmm he had said he saw something with 500gb that was $139. The WD one really has me intrigued - it would work well with the HD camcorder HD movies as well as some Blu-Ray rips that I currently have. I have a 60gb external 2.5" drive that will definitely need to be upgraded.

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

Kaido

Wanted to get your opinion again about the camcorder. I've had a lot going on lately and just started to get back into normality here.

Anyways, currently I have $700 in cash for the camera. The HF11 is going for around $825-850 while the HF100 is going for about $529.

My b-day is right around the corner and my whole family knows that I want to get the camera so I'm expecting more money/gift cards. I'm probably expecting another $300 or so for that.

The question is this: do I go for the better camera and less accessories or go with the HF100 and get every single accessory I can imagine.

It would look like this:

HF11 - $175 left over for accessories
HF100 - $475 left over for accessories

I'm not going to spend almost $500 in accessories so whatever I don't use will go towards something else I can use (clothes for work, etc)

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

Kaido

Wanted to get your opinion again about the camcorder. I've had a lot going on lately and just started to get back into normality here.

Anyways, currently I have $700 in cash for the camera. The HF11 is going for around $825-850 while the HF100 is going for about $529.

My b-day is right around the corner and my whole family knows that I want to get the camera so I'm expecting more money/gift cards. I'm probably expecting another $300 or so for that.

The question is this: do I go for the better camera and less accessories or go with the HF100 and get every single accessory I can imagine.

It would look like this:

HF11 - $175 left over for accessories
HF100 - $475 left over for accessories

I'm not going to spend almost $500 in accessories so whatever I don't use will go towards something else I can use (clothes for work, etc)

Wait for next month. The new Canons come out. The HF-S100 is looking mighty good according to specs, but I'm waiting for an actual review before taking the plunge myself. So gather up your gift cards, bday money, and savings and hunker down. The new ones will come out at the higher price ($1200 - $1500 depending on the model), so we might see some price drops...

 

[TangoJuliet]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Lots of really good info in this thread - thanks guys!

I currently have Roxio Toast 8 can I just use that to transcode the files? After the files are transcoded I can just import them into iMovie and edit with music and cc?

Now, I'm not sure if I understand this correctly but I can put a edited HD movie onto a regular DVD? The un-edited raw files which are taken from the camera itself are in the AVCHD format and if I get a Blu-Ray burner I would be able to put those files right onto a blank BRD?

I think you need Roxio 9 to handle AVCHD, not 100% sure tho. The unedited, raw camera files are AVCHD and can be burned to a DVD as files to play back on a compatible player (which I think is just the Playstation 3). To play on a regular DVD player, just export the video from iMovie to iDVD, real easy. DVD isn't HD, but the quality will be downscaled from HD so it will still look good (1080p is 1920x1080 while DVD is 720x480). I haven't worked with BRD before, so I can't comment much on that, but you might consider a WD TV HD:

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572

Just plug in a USB drive that has your clips on it and it will play back your HD videos. I've heard it can play back AVCHD, although I haven't tested that on mine because I have a tape-based camera. Nice little unit for $99 tho!

Kaido

Wanted to get your opinion again about the camcorder. I've had a lot going on lately and just started to get back into normality here.

Anyways, currently I have $700 in cash for the camera. The HF11 is going for around $825-850 while the HF100 is going for about $529.

My b-day is right around the corner and my whole family knows that I want to get the camera so I'm expecting more money/gift cards. I'm probably expecting another $300 or so for that.

The question is this: do I go for the better camera and less accessories or go with the HF100 and get every single accessory I can imagine.

It would look like this:

HF11 - $175 left over for accessories
HF100 - $475 left over for accessories

I'm not going to spend almost $500 in accessories so whatever I don't use will go towards something else I can use (clothes for work, etc)

Wait for next month. The new Canons come out. The HF-S100 is looking mighty good according to specs, but I'm waiting for an actual review before taking the plunge myself. So gather up your gift cards, bday money, and savings and hunker down. The new ones will come out at the higher price ($1200 - $1500 depending on the model), so we might see some price drops...

Cool, thanks. I tried to google the HF-S100 and see what was new with that model and didn't really see anything. Can you tell me what the specs are?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: TangoJuliet
Cool, thanks. I tried to google the HF-S100 and see what was new with that model and didn't really see anything. Can you tell me what the specs are?

Right here:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consu...7992#ModelTechSpecsAct

Basically two huge features:

1. 1/2.6" CMOS sensor
2. 8.59 megapixels

It has a better sensor and more megapixels, which should translate to an improved picture when downscaled and outputted to 1080p. The HF-100 is already a great camera; this just makes it better. There's actually an HF-200, but the HF-S100 is a much better camera. It can record at full 24 Mbps AVCHD and does about 3 hours on a 32gb card at max quality. I am anxiously awaiting reviews to see if the reality lives up to the specs. This should essentially be a mini Scarlet (if you're familiar with RED cameras) - lots of great features, totally digital.