New Gaming System Build - (Your thoughts)

[ironwarrior]

Hi,

I have an old P4 1.7 Ghz that I am putting to rest. After upgrading to a new Samsung 26 inch and finding my hardware won't even support the 1900 x 1200 resolution, it prompted me to upgrade. After researching high and low and reading several bench marks and reviews I have come up with the following build list. I wanted to pass it on to you for any feedback before the purchase.

- Case: Antec 1200 Full Tower
- Motherboard - Asus P6T Deluxe LGA 1366 Intel X58
- CPU- I7 quad core
- Memory: corsair 6gb 3x2gb 240pin ddr3 1333 pc310666 1.5 volt
(Will run dual boot) xp pro on primary raptor drive partition and vista 64 on secondary drive.
- Power Supply: Corsair 1000HX (Just in case I do crossfire someday)
- Video card ? Saphire 4870x2
- Hard drives Western Digital 300Gb Raptor and Barraccuda 500gb drives

Price is the con here, but hopefully won't have to upgrade again for another 3-4 years.
Cost on these items is about 1900.00 minus a couple hundred in rebates through newegg.

 

[MarcVenice]

Thoughts, do not try to future proof. Go with a cheap s775 platform, e8500, HD4870 1gb, p5q pro ( so you can do crossfire if needed ) get a decent 750w PSU, and you will end up spending HALF the money, while still getting a kick ass pc. Money saved can be used to upgrade in 1-2 years.

 

[akshatp]

i7 is overkill and very expensive. Go with a cheaper CPU like MV suggested.

 

[ironwarrior]

Thanks guys..

I wanted to have a screaming fast machine, not intending to future proof, but to be able to kick ass in current games in the most extreme playing mode running 1900x1200 resolution.
I just meant that my average upgrade doesn't take place for 3-4 years. With this said, the more current of a build, the less outdated it will be after that time period. In all my past purchases
and builds they have always been 2nd and 3rd generation where I have maximized my savings and ended up with a computer that was fast and satisfactory, but nothing that was kickass.
Way back when computers that couldn't even run windows 95 were 1500.00 to build. Now I figured I could use that same money and build a system that will run crysis at top level at 1900 x1200 like it would look and perform
if I was playing pacman. But, I do appreciate your advice. Times are definitely tight right now and it would probably be better to cut my cost down. As you said the value and bang for buck is much greater at a quad core
level running a P45 motherboard series.

 

[videogames101]

I suggest going for a black caviar for a second HDD, they simply outclass the barracudas.

And I'll also say, you'll love the case.

 

[MarcVenice]

Originally posted by: ironwarrior
Thanks guys..

I wanted to have a screaming fast machine, not intending to future proof, but to be able to kick ass in current games in the most extreme playing mode running 1900x1200 resolution.
I just meant that my average upgrade doesn't take place for 3-4 years. With this said, the more current of a build, the less outdated it will be after that time period. In all my past purchases
and builds they have always been 2nd and 3rd generation where I have maximized my savings and ended up with a computer that was fast and satisfactory, but nothing that was kickass.
Way back when computers that couldn't even run windows 95 were 1500.00 to build. Now I figured I could use that same money and build a system that will run crysis at top level at 1900 x1200 like it would look and perform
if I was playing pacman. But, I do appreciate your advice. Times are definitely tight right now and it would probably be better to cut my cost down. As you said the value and bang for buck is much greater at a quad core
level running a P45 motherboard series.

Fact is, at 1900*1200, an i7 isn't going to make a huge difference over a e8500, with 4gb of ddr2. I mean, you'll be looking at maybe 40fps instead of 45. But if a game doesn't run on a e8500 with a HD4870X2, an i7 with a HD4870X2 isn't going to run it either.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: ironwarrior
Thanks guys..

I wanted to have a screaming fast machine, not intending to future proof, but to be able to kick ass in current games in the most extreme playing mode running 1900x1200 resolution.
I just meant that my average upgrade doesn't take place for 3-4 years. With this said, the more current of a build, the less outdated it will be after that time period. In all my past purchases
and builds they have always been 2nd and 3rd generation where I have maximized my savings and ended up with a computer that was fast and satisfactory, but nothing that was kickass.
Way back when computers that couldn't even run windows 95 were 1500.00 to build. Now I figured I could use that same money and build a system that will run crysis at top level at 1900 x1200 like it would look and perform
if I was playing pacman. But, I do appreciate your advice. Times are definitely tight right now and it would probably be better to cut my cost down. As you said the value and bang for buck is much greater at a quad core
level running a P45 motherboard series.

For what it's worth, the performance difference between an i7 system and a Core2 system in four years is not going to be that great. The point is that if you spend less now you can upgrade in about two years. Following that strategy you'll have a PC which in four years is superior to an i7 system that went untouched since its creation.

 

[motojeff]

I'd love to see math that backs up what you are saying! What exactly do you see him upgrading within 4 years? About the only thing that would be cheap is the video card. Any other upgrade would involve a new motherboard, RAM, and processor, since socket 775 will be long gone. The video card can be updated on an i7 system as well...

 

[ironwarrior]

Yes, that was kind of my point mj. By the time 4 years passes you just about have to scrap everything and rebuild from scratch to keep up with the technology. Right now for example I have old IDE slow hard drives an outdated agp slot on my motherboard with no sata, no pci express etc. I have to scrap my system completely. I try to limit my upgrading as much as possible and only do it when I find I am unable to run what I need. Like mentioned after upgrading my LCD my hardware wouldn't support 1900x1200 resolution. I figured well.. I could just go get a new video card. But then my system won't support the new PCIe x16 cards. Then if I'm going to get a motherboard to support that I will need a bigger power supply etc etc etc. So I thought I would just build a screamer and be done with it . But I do understand that if the performance is just minor and it doesn't warrant the extra high dollars then I fully understand that. I was just told that for an extra hundred that the I7 was a great performer and would be the way to go. If not though then I could certainly step down to a quad core processor.

Does this sound like a better value for the buck...

1200 antec case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811129043
Intel Quad Core Motherboard (Can you guys give me some recommendations)
750w corsair power supply
4 gigabytes of ram
4870 1gb Saphire
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16814102801
Western Digital Raptor 300gb (primary)
Barracuda 500gb (secondary) * Barraccuda 5 year warranty / Western Digital 3 years
LG Blue Ray Burner
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827136133

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: motojeff
I'd love to see math that backs up what you are saying! What exactly do you see him upgrading within 4 years? About the only thing that would be cheap is the video card. Any other upgrade would involve a new motherboard, RAM, and processor, since socket 775 will be long gone. The video card can be updated on an i7 system as well...

In terms of gaming, CPUs can handle games that come out two years down the road without a problem. The issue is generally the graphics card. As you said, that's generally a relatively low-cost upgrade.

A 5-year-old CPU and 2-year-old graphics card is usually going to be more effective than a 4-year-old CPU and 4-year-old graphics card.

By the way, the fact that you're running 1900x1200 plays more to the graphics card than the CPU for most games.

 

[ironwarrior]

I agree,

So now I am trying to create my new shopping list.
I found where many of the quad core motherboards are nearly the same cost as the I7 boards. Well I know the SLI/Crossfire boards cost more. Plus the quad core boards offering DDR3 shoots a huge cost factor in there. Can you guys give me like 4 or 5 recommomendations for a quad core motherboard... Links would be a plus too If you have any pointing to newegg. So far I found these...

Intel Quad Core Motherboard (Can you guys give me some recommendations)
Asus P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATK Intel Motherboard 129.99 / 114.99 after 15.00 rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131299


EVGA 132-YW-E178-A1 LGA 775 NVIDIA nForce 780i SLI FTW ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - 3 sli
239.99 / 209.99 after 30.00 mail in rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813188027

Asus P5E LGA 775 Intel X38 ATX intel motherboard
169.00
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131219
1x Winner of Customer Choice Award - Intel Motherboards

Asus Rampage Formula LGA 775 intel x48
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813131284
288.99

I initially wanted to go with the 4870x2, but dropped to the 4870 HD as you guys thought it would be a better value for the money. With this said, I think it is my best interest to get a crossfire motherboard. I thought of SLI as well, but I thought the 4870 might be better.

 

[DSF]

That ASUS P5Q Pro is a fine choice, as is the Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R. I wouldn't worry about X38 or X48.

 

[ironwarrior]

Both those boards, the Asus P5Q and the Gigabyte GA look like great boards, but my delima is this...

Should I go with a motherboard that only supports 1 video card?
- If so then I should go with 4870x2 screaming card and stick with that.

Should I go with crossfire motherboard?
- This way I can get one 4870 HD 1gb card now and have room to upgrade later.

My thought is going with the later option and getting a good crossfire motherboard.
A question I have for these is which is a current board that would support the best memory and other options. It seems most of the intel core 2 quad boards don't support DDR3 memory. So with DDR2, what should I look for. It seems the fastest is 1366Mhz. Or is that not correct. I want a crossfire that supports fast memory. I think that would be my best option.. Any suggestions?

I know I am a pain in ass.. but I spent so long compiling my I7 motherboard list. Now my whole balance had been thrown out of whack ..

 

[DSF]

Memory speed isn't particularly important on Core2 systems. As long as you have enough headroom for whatever overclocking you intend to do, the rest is just numbers. DDR2-800 is fine, or DDR2-1000 if you expect to really push an overclock.

As far as Crossfire, when are you expecting to add the second card? If it's anything more than six months to a year down the road I wouldn't bother. It's just not as effective as getting a single card from the next generation.

 

[ironwarrior]

Ok so it is my understanding that ...

If I want to go with a single card solution.
- Go with a P45 motherboard

If I want to go with crossfire.
- Go with x38 or x48 which supports crossfire

So if I go with a single card, which one do you think would be the one to get.
Should I stick with my original selection, the 4870 X2. Or would a 4870 HD be more than sufficient in a single card motherboard solution?

If I got crossfire, I would go 4870 HD. When I added the second card would depend on my needs for future gaming. If I felt that the single card was no longer adequate I would then have the upgradability to add the second card at that time. 6 months, 1 year can't say for sure.

 

[ironwarrior]

I am leaning toward this board...
Gigabyte P45
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16813128358

I am a bit confused as I thought only X38 / X48 boards were supporting the crossfire platform.
I read where this P45 supports crossfire using the PCI express 2.0 X16 for primary card and then the PCI express 2.0 x8 for the secondary.
Isn't crossfire available in a pci express 2.0 x16 for both slots instead of the (x16) plus (x8)?

Once I figure out how that works it will definitely help me with my decision .


Then I will need to know what the best processor to run would be... Here is a list I found of both the Intel Duo and Quad variations..
Some say it is best to go with the fastest DUO since you get a better price then it would be worth to pay more for the Quad...
Here are the ones I found on new egg.. What would you guys recommend?

159.99
89% Excellent 1615 reviews
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
1333MHz FSB
45 nm Wolfdale
6MB L2 Cache

189.99
91% excellent 540 reviews
2x customer choice award
Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 3.16GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail
1333MHz FSB
45 nm Wolfdale
6MB L2 Cache


184.99
91% excellent 2644 reviews
5x customer choice award
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor - Retail
1066MHz FSB
65 nm Kentsfield
8MB L2 Cache

309.99
83% excellent 360 reviews
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail
1333MHz FSB
45 nm Yorkfield
12MB L2 Cache

 

[DSF]

Were you planning on overclocking or not?

 

[motojeff]

I don't know. I am going i7. You can seem my components list if you do a search on me. My reasoning is:
1) Quad core will be a bigger factor in the coming years than it is now.
2) 8 threads will be a bigger factor in the coming years than it is now.
3) New i7 instructions will be a bigger factor in the coming years than it is now.
4) I don't want to be limited to an ATI graphics card solution 2 years from now.
5) Maybe, just maybe, I can upgrade to a new processor that fits 1366 2 years from now.
6) Maybe, just maybe, I can reuse my ddr3 4 years from now.

5/6 are a stretch, but 1-4 are important to me.

 

[ironwarrior]

No, I won't be overclocking for awhile as I don't have much experience in that area.
After learning more about it and reaching a better comfort level I will more than likely give it a shot though
and overclock at a mild to moderate level.

 

[heyheybooboo]

e8400/Asus P5Q Combo: $255 AR

or

X2 7750/Biostar 790gx Combo: $165


SAPPHIRE 100259-1GL Radeon HD 4870 1GB 256-bit GDDR5: $230 AR

 

[ironwarrior]

Thanks heyhey,

I appreciate your suggestion. I am now narrowing down my choices and getting closer to finalizing.

At this point I feel that the (2) motherboards that seem to have the best reviews and would give me the best value for the buck are...

1. ASUS P5Q
2. Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P

From reading reviews I think the Gigabyte board seems to be the leader and hence I am leading more toward that one. I reviewed the combination mb/cpu deals for both boards and found the following. Now I have to decide which would be best. The decision between going with the higher clock of the DUO vs. getting the lower clock QUAD is the question.
If I was just running XP it would be easy.. I would go with the 3.0 DUO. But I am planning on running a dual boot.. XP primary and Vista 64 secondary.. With this said, the Vista 64 would probably take more advantage of the quad-core. As a result I think I am leaning to
this Gigabyte Quad Core Combo:
(This way the clock is very close to the DUO and yet it is Quad Core that may be more useful in Vista 64)

426.98
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.147895



HERE ARE ALL THE COMBO DEALS I HAVE FOUND

ASUS P5Q combos

269.98
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.147991

374.98
Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80580Q9400 - Retail
ASUS P5Q Pro LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.147993

GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P combos

286.98
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor Model BX80570E8400 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail

426.98
Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80569Q9550 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.147895

306.98
Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor Model BX80580Q8200 - Retail
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3P LGA 775 Intel P45 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?ItemList=Combo.147896

 

[ironwarrior]

Another choice...

Gigabyte board and Quad Core (Q6600) 2.4Ghz purchased as separates
TOTAL = 136.99 + 184.99 = 321.98

- Gigabyte Board
136.99 /116.99 after 20.00 mail in rebate
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...igabyte%20ga-ep45-ud3p

- Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor Model BX80562Q6600 - Retail
184.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ATCH&Description=q6600

 

[DSF]

Vista isn't going to do anything special to take advantage of four cores. Either your applications will use them or they won't.

 

[ironwarrior]

I'm no expert, but not sure I would agree with that.

In my opinion I would think that going from 32 to 64 bit means more powerful instructions and more addressable memory. I would think this would also mean it would make more use out of the 4 core processor.

I would love to hear more facts about this to help me make my decision as to which processor would give me the best performance for my money.

 

[DSF]

64-bit doesn't have much to do with the number of cores. Core2Duos are 64-bit CPUs as well. The CPUs are all using the same instruction sets. (The E8xxx series CPUs even have more advanced instruction sets than the Q6xxx chips. As a matter of fact, the Q6xxx chips are essentially just two E6xxx chips stuck together.)