New Gaming Rig, lga 1156 or 1366 ?

[spac18]

Of course gtx 460 wont get any faster. I asked if games will get too fast for gtx 460 sli. Read before you answer.

 

[mfenn]

Of course gtx 460 wont get any faster. I asked if games will get too fast for gtx 460 sli. Read before you answer.

I'm fully aware that you were talking about GTX 460 SLI. GTX 460 SLI is composed of two GTX 460's. The scaling is already nearly perfect, so unless the GTX 460 gets faster, GTX 460 SLI isn't going to get any faster.

And to answer your question, of course games will become too demanding for GTX 460 SLI.

 

[Davidh373]

nd to answer your question, of course games will become too demanding for GTX 460 SLI.

We're never really going to hit a point where any product doesn't reach a point where you need something better. The 460 is just about the best bang for your buck right now single card or SLI, but I am always one of the few speaking out against multi-card configs. No game is ever going to require "GTX460 in SLI". They are just going to go on to put the single card equivalent on the box. When your 460 gets outdated is when the DX version gets outdated most likely. People are still running 4850s in their systems fine with DX9 and they are yet to be required by any game. The only game to "recommend" anything better is FFXIV and apparently doesn't even need that to max out graphics at a reasonable framerate. Get a single card and save your money for a new card a few years down the road. In two years you'll be able to get something better than a 480 for less than the price of a 460. SLI is a waste of money and energy. THANK YOU 🙂.

 

[spac18]

Sli or crossfire is not always waste of money. Right now someone can get gtx 460 sli at less than gtx 480 and get higher performance. And someone can buy a 6870 early next year and buy another cheap 6870 later next year. With this setup he can skip 7000 series and buy a 8000 card in 2013. Ithink it will be more economical than selling cards every year.

Because gtx 460 is practically a mid range card of 2009 grade, I am afraid that even gtx 460 sli wont be able to hande games in 2011. If I get a i5 build, either I will get stuck with gtx 460 sli or I have to sell gtx 460 for cheap and buy a 6870 . Even if I get i7 870, does lga 1156 has enough power to handle 6870 xfire? With lga 1366, I can keep the gtx 460 as physx card and upgrade to 6870 crossfire late next year. So which makes more sence? And which is the cheapest x58 sli board?

 

[Davidh373]

Everybody knows that something lasts until it fails or gets replaced. How long means the length of time.

Nobody really knows how long a platform will last. It Depends on your demands. The 775 intel socket just got outdated by the 1156 but it still has some life in it because of the low wattage Conroe and the Core2 Quad as well as the old Xeons. It is now ~4-5 years old.

As for mfenn, he pretty much told you that the socket is going to be dead after the 990X, so it won't likely "last" very long if you plan on making frequent upgrades, but it will likely physically work pretty much until you get an urge to replace it with a newer socket motherboard. Nobody can absolutely promise this to you because the occasional defect or plain failure does occur, hence why I think mfeen said "until it fails OR I upgrade".

 

[spac18]

I meant the board itself, not the platform. A board with overclocked cpu surely wont last for etetnity. So I want to know how long is the life expectancy of a board. Boards normally 3 years warrenty, so how frequently a board fails in its fourth year?

 

[mfenn]

I meant the board itself, not the platform. A board with overclocked cpu surely wont last for etetnity. So I want to know how long is the life expectancy of a board. Boards normally 3 years warrenty, so how frequently a board fails in its fourth year?

Nobody has a crystal ball, but people you still see 939 boards rocking (non-insane) overclocks.

 

[Davidh373]

I bought my 4890 a year and a half ago, and I'm not planning on a replacement until the 470 drops in price. I told you to replace them every two years, not every year. The 460 is a really nice card. Not mid-range for 2009 but mid-range for 2010 (when it came out...). Considering that games are barely starting to require the low end 2xx nVidia series chips is indication enough that the mid 4xx chips won't be out of developer's eyes for a while. Consider this, The developers can't logically develop for future technology, since future technology isn't available for them to develop on. I would imagine that the games just starting to get tested are being tested on the 4xx nVidia series and POSSIBLY the 6xxx series from ATI. You won't have to worry about a single card not being able to run a game for 3 or so years, since that is the approximate development cycle for a game (some exceptions of course do exist). Now if you want excessive framerates in current and most future games to show of and hide inadequacies in one's self, that is when SLI comes in handy.
Believe me, I do some Game Development (Rarely, but I know how things work), Video Editing, 3D Rendering, Photo Editing, Audio Editing, and gaming on my system. It still runs everything to my liking a year and a half down the road with a single card and it will continue to run things to my liking for another year or so. Many of my friends also Game Develop, and Render 3D ect. on older Qxxxx systems and some are unfortunate to be doing it on their work on C2D systems. I know for a fact you will never need any SLI, it is a waste of however expensive the second graphics card is, and it also normally costs you extra for the PSU and on top of that extra in utilities. You are kidding yourself if you think you can future proof at all, yet alone with SLI/CF. If you are going to pop the cash for SLI right off the bat you will be itching to upgrade that SLI to CF with the new 6xxx series, and then with the 6xx series for nVidia (assuming the 5xx is for laptops like the 3xx was). Be realistic and save your money.
One thing, you shouldn't poke fun at mfenn, who is genuinely trying to help. You just keep insulting his advice just because he doesn't give a paragraph explaining himself. The info is accurate, you just need to do a little research yourself into if it's true (which you should to begin with anyway). Second, you should actually review the past of graphics cards, and how buying a midrange card around $250 every year is not like buying 2 $250 cards and a more beefy power supply with the additional utility cost. Third, Like mfenn said, nobody has a crystal ball. We can't predict when your board is going to fail. I can tell you My dad has an almost 13 year old dell which is still kicking stock, and I have an HP sitting here that's 5 at Christmas time stock. Fourth, I don't think you have sound logic thinking that a midrange card half way through 2010 won't run a game when new years comes around. nVidia would be devistated, completely wiped out. You have no reason to be worried about single cards. Developers are only a gen. ahead at testing if they have an immense budget and great timing, so theoretically you should be able to run games on the 460 for two years. Of course nobody can guarantee it won't break, or it will get you 30FPS in Crysis 4 coming out in 2015. If you can't handle that then just don't get a computer. I'm tired of people coming in and telling someone who is taught to be a game developer how they need SLI or CFX. It's a gigantic load of crap fed to the consumer by graphics card companies to bring sales numbers up.

 

[spac18]

In aliens vs. predator, a single gtx 480 cant give playable frame rate at 1080p highest quality, but gtx 460 sli can. The sli pair costs same as gtx 480, consumes same amount of power, but gives a little bit better performance. A p55 sli board costs just a little bit more than a single pcie 2.0 slot board. In this case sli gives good value, aint it?

 

[mfenn]

In aliens vs. predator, a single gtx 480 cant give playable frame rate at 1080p highest quality, but gtx 460 sli can. The sli pair costs same as gtx 480, consumes same amount of power, but gives a little bit better performance. A p55 sli board costs just a little bit more than a single pcie 2.0 slot board. In this case sli gives good value, aint it?

Two GTX 460's actually draw quite a bit more power than a single GTX 480.

The thing is, you're thinking about the ideal world where the SLI setup is working at 100%. In reality, you're going to have to deal with thermal throttling of the top card, microstutter, SLI profiles, zero/negative scaling when new games come out, etc. Thus, IMHO it is not worth it to go SLI when it is so close to a single GTX 480.

Since you're so worried about longevity, think about this: In the case of SLI, 2x1GB of VRAM does not equal 2GB of VRAM because the same data has to be duplicated on each card. When games use more than 1GB of VRAM (thing about AA), the GTX 460 SLI setup will choke, whereas the GTX 480 will be fine.

 

[Davidh373]

http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTI3NDkwNjIzMU92TFU1T1g2VGtfMV8yX2wuanBn

Really... 55 fps not playable enough for ya...

470 benchmark
http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTI3NDkwNjIzMU92TFU1T1g2VGtfMV8zX2wuanBn

44 fps... still way over what the eye can see.

I'd imagine the 460 SLI is somewhere in the 30s with AA, as it is in the 40s without. That was just the lows, Average was 85. This was also at 2560 x 1600. You could easily cut that in half and still have a playable framerate.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/09/13/nv_gtx_460_1gb_sli_vs_ati_hd_5850_cfx_redux/

You have no idea what you are talking about dude, and you're still trying to talk yourself into wasting money. I guess you'd just imagined seeing those extremely fake low benchmarks :-/.

The 460 Alone would be good enough to play things in 1080p. I play everything on my 4890 at 1080p and everything runs smooth. The 4890 benchmarks LOWER than the 460. Your eye can't tell the difference once you get above 24 fps. Saying something isn't playable around 50 fps is ludicrous.

 

[spac18]

The benchmarks you linked were not in highest settings. Af was turned of. Without af, the gaming experience regresses significantly. Secondly, go.to xbitlabs.com and see their gtx 460 sli review. In Alieans v Predator @ 1080p, gtx 480 gives 23 fps MINIMUM, but gtx 460 sli gives over30 fps minimum. Plus who.said human eye cant see over 24 fps? Human eye does not sees in frames, it works with consistant exposure to light. In movies, 24 fps is ideal because objects are filmed in a way that they stays almost in the same place of the screen. So theres no motion blurring. In high speed games like burnout, 24fps will never be enough. Of course there is micro stuttering in multi gpu setups, but things are getting better with newer drivers. Plus in case of games with lower gpu demands, sli can be turned off to avoid micro stutter. Now as the fastest single gpu available cant run through some new games, multi gpu setups will get more and more important.
@mfeen
I didn't multiplied gtx 460 numbers. Its on the xbitlabs article. Gtx 460 sli draws just a little bit more power than gtx 480, but slightly oced gtx 460 sli beats gtx 480 by some distance. Single gtx 480 wont be a disaster, but I am planning to buy a gtx 460 now and might add another in the future. Hasn't nvidia solved the micro struttering problem?

 

[Davidh373]

I'm assuming you were talking about this review

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/nvidia-geforce-gtx-460_11.html

If you are planning to buy one now and one later, great. That is what I advised after you mentioned SLI so strongly. I guarantee you'll be happy with one though. Also though, you were looking at the gs model, the standard 460 gets a few lower, but performs well in any other game except Crysis (Go Figure 😛). The really funny thing is we'll probably see much higher framerates in Crysis 2 than we ever will in the original lol. Really, the 460 gets reasonable framerates in everything except AvP, so hopefully you don't play much of that. I saw no mention of SLI in the review. I saw the GS model and the 1GB benchmarked but no 480 or SLI.

 

[spac18]

Theres another review on that site. Its titeled two vs one: gtx 460 sli v 5970

 

[mfenn]

Can you be so kind as to provide a link? According to AT's numbers, GTX 460 SLI draws a good 50W more than the GTX 480.

 

[Davidh373]

Can you be so kind as to provide a link? According to AT's numbers, GTX 460 SLI draws a good 50W more than the GTX 480.

I thought I read somewhere that the power consumption was significantly higher as well.

 

[Kantastic]

Honestly, there's no difference. I'd go for 1366 since you have a wider choice of motherboards that support full X16/X16 CFX & SLI.

 

[mfenn]

Honestly, there's no difference. I'd go for 1366 since you have a wider choice of motherboards that support full X16/X16 CFX & SLI.

Nope, no differences in the price, turbo support, number of memory channels or anything. 🙄

 

[betasub]

Yeah, and how anything less than 16x/16x PCIe 2.0 completely cripples "CFX & SLI". [/sarcasm]

 

[spac18]

Anandtech review shows that gtx 460 sli cosumes almost same power as gtx 480 in load and 20 odd watts less in idle. Where did you get the info that gtx 460 sli consumes a lot more poewer?
And in the cpu space, will lga 1155 chips outpace lga 1366 &1156?
No links as I am typing from a mobile phone.

 

[mfenn]

Anandtech review shows that gtx 460 sli cosumes almost same power as gtx 480 in load and 20 odd watts less in idle. Where did you get the info that gtx 460 sli consumes a lot more poewer?
And in the cpu space, will lga 1155 chips outpace lga 1366 &1156?
No links as I am typing from a mobile phone.

Did you even click on the link that I posted?????

GTX 460 1GB SLI load power consumption: 528W
GTX 480 load power consumption: 479W

And yes, Sandy Bridge will be faster clock-for-clock.

 

[spac18]

Those are furmark numbers. Check out the original anandtech gtx 460 review. The gaming numbers are simmiler.Also check out xbitlabs review of gtx 480 tri sli v 5870 quad sli (its in mobo section). Here gtx 480 sli scales very well with i7 980. But quad core i7s causes bottleneck. So will lga 1155 chips be fast enough to handle gtx 480 sli properly?

 

[mfenn]

Those are furmark numbers. Check out the original anandtech gtx 460 review. The gaming numbers are simmiler.Also check out xbitlabs review of gtx 480 tri sli v 5870 quad sli (its in mobo section). Here gtx 480 sli scales very well with i7 980. But quad core i7s causes bottleneck. So will lga 1155 chips be fast enough to handle gtx 480 sli properly?

So what if they are Furmark numbers? Load power consumption should be worst-case, or else it is useless as a metric.

Regarding the CPU, are we even still talking about you proposed rig any more? What you are talking about is so far out into left field as to be irrelevant.

Let's reel the conversation back in. What exactly is your concern with a 760 + GTX 480? The 760 will absolutely under no realistic circumstances be the bottle. Sure, it will bottleneck if you do something dumb like run at 1024x768, but who cares what the "bottleneck" is when you're pushing 400+ FPS?

 

[spac18]

Furmark numbers are completely useless because it does not represents the real world scenario. What if gtx 460 sli can consume more power than gtx 480? Bottom line is that it does not in real world. Your girlfriend can cheat on you anytime. So will you call her a cheater even if she does not cheat on you in real life?
I am talking about gtx 480 sli bottleneck, not gtx 480 bottleneck. With this observation power, you wont even realise if your gf cheats on you.

 

[mfenn]

Different games produce different loads. You can't know if a new game will come out that comes close to Furmark numbers. That's why you plan for the worst case.

With this observation power, you wont even realise if your gf cheats on you.

Wow, I thought we were trying to have a rational discussion about a potential build. Now that you've started with the personal attacks, I'm done with you and this thread.