New gaming rig build - parts picket out - feedback?

[MrFrenzy]

Ken_g6, the 80-Plus is for heat/electricity as you mentioned which is dang expensive in NYC

The tier of PSU i was referring to is the lines of PSU's that, for example, corsair offers. Given that I plan on doing overclocking, i imagine that it may be a good idea to go with a slightly better line PSU?

For the RAM, the mobo allows for faster speeds and the RAM has slightly faster timings than other models I saw. What makes you say its too fast, too much voltage?

Also, why the 2GB 770?

So, to recap, i'm planning on OC'ing the CPU and the RAM, hence i got the unlocked i7-4470K (for $250!) and this ram.

 

[Ken g6]

For the RAM, the mobo allows for faster speeds and the RAM has slightly faster timings than other models I saw. What makes you say its too fast, too much voltage?

Because faster speeds and faster timings don't have much effect on gaming. (And Intel CPUs aren't rated for over 1.55V RAM.)

Also, why the 2GB 770?

Because it's about the same price (more, or less!) and you shouldn't need 4GB on a 1080P monitor.

For a PSU, what about this Seasonic? 550W should be enough, even with overclocking both CPU and GPU. Or if you insist on 650W, here's an XFX for $95 today only.

 

[MrFrenzy]

Thanks for the link, i'll do some reading after work

Any particular reason you'd recommend the XFX over the Corsair i picked out, besides the fan issue you mentioned?

 

[Ken g6]

Any particular reason you'd recommend the XFX over the Corsair i picked out, besides the fan issue you mentioned?

$5; $10 including shipping, I think.

 

[mfenn]

What do you mean by being invested into an Nvidia ecosystem? I've been gaming forever (took a short break) and have been using NVidia for a long time now. In the past I had issues with the Radeons, but this was probably 10 years ago and I will admit that this bias is not based on anything... factual?

"Invested in the Nvidia ecosystem" means that you are heavily reliant on Nvidia-specific technologies such as Shadowplay, PhysX, and G-Sync. Since you do not have a current gaming PC, you are obviously not invested into any of these. Has nothing to do with what your bias is and how long you've been gaming.

 

[MrFrenzy]

I see. I have a gaming rig, i just took a break form it for a semester and now re-purposing it. I haven't played anything really on the frontier of gaming, but some games used PhysX like World of Tanks...

Are there any specific technologies or features you like in the AMD GPU's?

 

[mfenn]

I already got the i7-4470K and SSD's for this build. I also plan on overclocking, but haven't picked out a heat sink yet.

If you bought the CPU without taking advantage of the CPU/mobo combo at MC, then you've screwed up big time. I'd suggest returning the i7 and grabbing a combo at MC.

The i7 is also a waste of money compared to the i5, especially with a GPU as weak as a GTX 760. You'll never be able to push games to the point of seeing an advantage from the i7. I'd advise spending less on the CPU and more on the GPU, because the GPU is the #1 determiner of gaming performance.

Fractal Design Define Mini Black Micro ATX Silent PC Computer Case w/ USB 3.0 support and 2 x 120mm Fractal Design Silent ...

Good

ASRock Z87M OC Formula LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

Combo deal notwithstanding, this board is kind of a waste of money. You'd be better off getting this i5 4670K + ASRock Z87M Extreme4 combo ($270) and spending more on the GPU.

CORSAIR HX series HX650 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

You should do the math and determine how long the HX650 will take to make back the $40 difference in price versus the $60 Hive 650W. At idle (where the PC will spend 95% of its time), the 5% efficiency difference amounts to 50W * 0.05 = 2.5W. If the HX pays itself off in 5 years or less, then it's worth it. Otherwise it's not.

Team Xtreme 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 2400 (PC3 19200) Desktop Memory Model TXD316G2400HC10QDC01

Too expensive for too little benefit. Grab the $120 kit that Ken mentioned.

EVGA 04G-P4-3768-KR GeForce GTX 760 FTW 4GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 SLI Support Video Card w/ EVGA ACX Cooler

Ken has basically covered this, but to reiterate, the GTX 760 4GB doesn't make much sense because the GPU too slow to be competitive in instances where the high amount of VRAM would matter (high res and high AA). Get the best of 3 worlds with the R9 280X 3GB. It's the same price as the GTX 760 4GB, faster than it, comes with more RAM than the GTX 770, and has a bundle with games you might actually care about.

Obviously my money savings suggestions above can be pocketed or put back into the GPU. If you'd put the money into the GPU, grab a GTX 780 3GB for $490.

ASUS VG248QE Black 24" 144Hz 1ms (GTG) HDMI Widescreen LED Backlight LCD 3D Monitor

Good

Razer Naga 2014 MMO Gaming Mouse

Potentially good. You should really try this mouse out in person if you haven't done so already. It has a ton of macro keys, but is also huge and those macro keys may interfere with your normal grip. Mice and keyboards are really subjective decisions, so you might love it. But you might also hate it and it would suck to spend $70 on a mouse that you don't like.

To sum up, you're spending too much money on components that don't matter much (CPU) or at all (fancy mobo and RAM) and not spending enough on the GPU. The money you are spending on the GPU isn't being used in a very cost-effective way.

 

[MrFrenzy]

Roger that.

I got the i7 at MicroCenter with a mobo deal, but i got the mITX mobo which i don't want, so I'll be exchanging it for something else. Based on your feedback, perhaps the ASRock Z87M Extreme4 I'm gonna stick with the i7, as I will potentially use this for other tasks (dev/server). I'm OK with going a bit overboard on the CPU

Are you saying that a combination of an i7 and a better GPU yields results? From what I've observed in my life of gaming, is that the CPU matters if there's a lot going on with the game (aka units - games like Supreme Commander 80KM maps) and the GPU for framerates when there's a lot happening visually. I'm assuming the combo of high CPU/GPU would maximize those two potentials.

I'm digging the PSU selection... I'll have to look closer and consider the suggestion there.

Same for ram, did some more reading and I'm going to choose something less intense.

GPU is still in question...

The mouse i tried in the store and it was big which i need for my larger hands. The thumb buttons will be useful for TS channels and other functions. Felt like a solid mouse. As for a keyboard, I've always been a fan of a standard KB and have used Dell's for what seems like forever (game & Work). Currently i'm in love with the Dell Slim KB I know it better than my own body.

I'm gonna repackage this wishlist based on the recommendations and see what I come up with.

Oh, and Any comments on the video cards due to the fact that the monitor is 144mhz?

 

[mfenn]

Nothing wrong with the Naga as long as you've tested it out. I just wanted to be very sure that you weren't picking it out "sight unseen", it's a very love it or hate it type of mouse.

Back in the Supreme Commander (Core 2) days, the more expensive CPU would have been a quad-core compared to the less expensive dual. These days, the only difference between the i5 and i7 is a couple hundred MHz and hyperthreading, which is much less than Core 2 Duo versus Core 2 Quad. Yes, the i7 will be faster than the i5 with any given GPU. However, the difference is very small (single digit percentage), so if buying the i7 means trimming down the GPU, then the i7 isn't worth it.

To get benefit from a 144Hz monitor, you need to have the GPU to be able to drive it at > 60 FPS. The GTX 760 is definitely not that GPU. The high refresh rate doesn't increase the VRAM requirements, you just want raw shader power.

 

[MrFrenzy]

One of the problems I'm running into while looking at RAM on new egg is that I'm not gonna get anything much cheaper than what I picked out. Given that the price difference is just a few bucks between 1600 and 2400 ram (at 1.65v) do you think its worth going tho the higher speeds? Or will this just become an oven with little gain? I'm looking at:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9&Pagesize=100

and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...$$$$$$$;20-231-615:$$$$$$$;20-104-363:$$$$$$$

I need to buy from NewEgg...

 

[MrFrenzy]

OK, how about this? http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=25496086

I need to buy from NewEgg for the 0% financing. I may get the mobo from MicroCenter if i get a better deal.

The PSU - the Rosewill Hive has a 3 year warranty, for just a few bucks more I got the Corsair HX and even went up to the 750W for just +$10. (7 year warranty).

EDITED :
- So i updated the shopping list again. I went with the RAM since it was on the support list, within the same price range as others and has CAS 9 latency.
- Video card? all out
- Added a blu ray drive (mostly for long-term backups)

Now, to sleep on it... Thank you all for the feedback - more is still welcome!

 

[mfenn]

I go by the old adage of "if you have to finance it, then you can't afford it". That's doubly true for a massively depreciating asset like computer hardware.

Now that we've got the financial planning advice out of the way, :awe: my basic problem with your decision making process is that you look at more expensive parts and say "it's just a few bucks more for this" and "just a few bucks more for that". $20-30 here and there really adds up. The PSU is a particularly egregious example, you're paying more than double what you need to pay ($130 vs $60).

So, my comments:
- Case: Good
- SATA cable: probably not needed, the mobo comes with 4
- Mobo: The subway is $4.50 round trip, easily worth saving $40 at MC
- GPU: Too expensive for a GTX 780. This ASUS is $490.
- PSU: Too expensive and overpowered for what you need. Pick up the Hive 650W for $60 AP.
- RAM: Too expensive and has tall heatspreaders. If you must buy from Newegg, then grab this G.Skill DDR3 1600 16GB 1.35V kit for $130.
- Blu-Ray Burner: Too expensive for a burner (LG $60) and Blu-Ray's are a really horrible backup media. Slow, expensive (that burner buys you a 2TB HDD), and need to be reburned every 3-5 years. If you need an optical drive at all, stick with a standard DVD burner, and use HDDs/cloud for backups.

 

[MrFrenzy]

Thanks for the added comments.

Although its true what you say about financing it, I like the 0%, no tax, few extra $ haggling and the convenience of shopping on NE. The financing is a cherry on top. I plan on going to MC this weekend to swap the mobo, so hopefully they'll still give me the combo deal and sell the mobo for 90 + tax ~= $100. BTW, metro cards went up, its $2.50 now This throws the whole budget off!

OK, so granted, I was up late and tired and went a bit over board, but its not all thoughtless.

- So yes, the mobo should cost me about 105 with the round trip, hehe, which I have to take anyway.
- GPU, good point, its basically $20 more for the DirectX12 on the EVGA
- PSU, dag, i didn't notice the extra $20 savings, you're RIGHT! it is half price. I'll take that over the 7 year warranty. But this brings up a point - I expect the base system to take 250 Watts + video card of maybe 300 ~= 550, so the 650 should handle. I never had a system go over 250 Watts, but I never used a top of the line card and a proc like the i7. I think the Rosewill is a winner here (dag, the promo ended yesterday! The 750w version is now cheaper!).
-Ram - well, it is a bit more, but that's because I looked for ram with XMP and lower timings. I found a happy middle with the price. Do you think its not worth the XMP & timings for $5-$15 increase in price? I also noticed this in the memory specs for Gskills:

Combination with other memory kits or modules (even with same model number) is not recommended to avoid any compatibility issues

Given that I will want to go to 32GB eventually when i repurpose it for a server, should I need to get the full 32GB now? Does the other dual channel set have to be matched this precisely??
- The BR burner I picked out is actually a bit cheaper due to promos. I want it for movies and those once in a while backups to Write-once media to dump photos and music, in addition to HDD backups.

To sum up:
1. Should I need to get 32GB RAM now or can I add the 16 later without risk for stability (will run virtualization now and later as server).
2. XMP & low timings - worth the $5-15 extra?
3. OH, and any heat-sink recommendations?

 

[lehtv]

- GPU, good point, its basically $20 more for the DirectX12 on the EVGA

I'm not sure what you're referring to here. DirectX 12 support is not brand specific.

- PSU, dag, i didn't notice the extra $20 savings, you're RIGHT! it is half price. I'll take that over the 7 year warranty. But this brings up a point - I expect the base system to take 250 Watts + video card of maybe 300 ~= 550, so the 650 should handle. I never had a system go over 250 Watts, but I never used a top of the line card and a proc like the i7. I think the Rosewill is a winner here (dag, the promo ended yesterday! The 750w version is now cheaper!).

The base system will use less than 150W with the CPU in full stress, even if you OC the CPU moderately. GTX 770 uses less than 200W, 280X uses less than 250W. Add maybe up to 50W for overclocking on air. Overall you're looking at about 400W of power consumption in the worst case scenario, which is ideal for a 650W unit and quite possible to handle by a quality 550W unit as well. The Hive 650W looks pretty nice for just $60. It's not the best unit on the market but does the job and is covered by 5 years of warranty which is decent enough. The next step up would be a Gold rated unit... I'm not seeing any decent deals on 650W units, but your system should be fine with 550W as well, e.g. Antec TP-550C $65 AR

Given that I will want to go to 32GB eventually when i repurpose it for a server, should I need to get the full 32GB now? Does the other dual channel set have to be matched this precisely??

You should not have any compatibility issues with RAM as long as your modules are identical in specs. The best way to ensure that is to just buy the same make/model DIMMs, but they don't all have to be part of the same kit by any means.

I'd get 2x8GB now and later add another identical 2x8GB kit if needed. The G.Skill 1.35V kit linked by mfenn looks excellent to me.

- The BR burner I picked out is actually a bit cheaper due to promos. I want it for movies and those once in a while backups to Write-once media to dump photos and music, in addition to HDD backups.

Why would you need BR backups in addition to HDD backups? Just do the latter, it's cheaper and faster. For movies though, I can understand the need for BR. If you don't already have a BR player for your TV though, and don't already own a large set of BR movies, I don't see the point.

2. XMP & low timings - worth the $5-15 extra?

Tighter timings aren't really worth much. I'd pick the 1600Mhz 1.35V kit for $130 (low voltage is the way of the future ) or a 2133MHz 1.5V kit, but currently those are $20 more expensive... not really worth it from the performance point of view (you only notice the difference in benchmarks), and you're probably mature enough not to care about bragging rights

3. OH, and any heat-sink recommendations?

If you're planning for an easy OC with mild voltage increase and not too much fiddling about, I'd just get the tried-and-true Hyper 212+ for $20 AR. Yes, it's mainstream, it's what everyone else has, but it's honestly the best performance you can get for just $20 bucks. The next step up would be a Hyper TPC-612 which is $50 up front, $30 AR.

 

[MrFrenzy]

The EVGA model supports Dx12, where as the ASUS supports up to 11.

I agree that the PSU wattage is enough - i've monitored all my systems before and its rare to break through 200-250w. BTW, the hive is 3 years warranty.

Regarding the RAM, what about XMP? Granted I don't care about benchmarks but more about the end effect, but I'd be interested in checking out how much XMP matters.

Doing WO media backups of photos or other irreplaceable data is a good safety measure. Its a once a year type of safety net.

Once again, i appreciate the feedback!

 

[mnewsham]

The EVGA model supports Dx12, where as the ASUS supports up to 11.

You don't understand what that means, stop saying it.
DirectX12 wont even be released until 2015, AND nvidia has already announced ALL DirectX11 GPU's (fermi, keplar, and maxwell) will support the DX12 API, Asus, EVGA, etc, none of them decide what API the card can or can not use.

Regarding the RAM, what about XMP? Granted I don't care about benchmarks but more about the end effect, but I'd be interested in checking out how much XMP matters.

XMP profiles don't really matter all that much, half the time they dont even work and you have to manually set your RAM timings ANYWAY.

 

[MrFrenzy]

You don't understand what that means, stop saying it.

Take it easy (aka, be nice and don't attack character), i'm only going by what the specs are given on the site. However, i do appreciate the clarification and response.

 

[lehtv]

Take it easy (aka, be nice and don't attack character), i'm only going by what the specs are given on the site. However, i do appreciate the clarification and response.

Nobody's attacking any character, he's just saying you don't know what you're talking about (hence you're the one asking us for advice ). EVGA just seems to be adamant to advertise DX12 support

I agree that the PSU wattage is enough - i've monitored all my systems before and its rare to break through 200-250w. BTW, the hive is 3 years warranty.

You're right, I was certain it was 5 and didn't bother to check... Hmm, that changes things. 5 year warranty on the PSU is one of the things I'd absolutely want in a PC this expensive. I'd get the TP-550C. Antec is known for high quality units, although they don't manufacture the units themselves, but source them from high quality OEMs like Seasonic and Delta. It also has higher quality capacitors which will improve its longevity, and based on cost of electricity in NY, the higher efficiency will actually save you money in the long term.

mnewsham covered XMP there nicely. I've never used XMP profiles and don't see any reason to

 

[MrFrenzy]

OK, OK, it's just pompous and a little insulting to hear that and serves no purpose in this discourse. I do know what I'm talking about and I'm referencing information from the site (whether it's true or not is a different story). I didn't say that the brand was supporting Dx12 but the EVGA model listed on NewEgg. Granted, I'm not up to speed with the latest developments thus I turn to you guys to point me in the right direction, which was done and could have been done without that comment. :\

 

[mnewsham]

OK, OK, it's just pompous and a little insulting to hear that and serves no purpose in this discourse. I do know what I'm talking about and I'm referencing information from the site (whether it's true or not is a different story). I didn't say that the brand was supporting Dx12 but the EVGA model listed on NewEgg. Granted, I'm not up to speed with the latest developments thus I turn to you guys to point me in the right direction, which was done and could have been done without that comment. :\

Nvidia has announced ANY GPU made in the past two or three years will work with DirectX12, if you buy any new card you will be fine, don't worry about it, especially since no games will be using DX12 for at least a year, probably more.

This is the type of post that should have been made in the first place, rather than the somewhat attack-ish comment in post #41. It's all water under the bridge now, so let's just move on.

mfenn
General Hardware Moderator

 

[mfenn]

The EVGA model supports Dx12, where as the ASUS supports up to 11.

It's the GPU and drivers that control DirectX support, not the company who assembles the board. Those two things are going to be the same for any GTX 780, no matter who assembled it. It's a pretty underhanded marketing tactic on EVGA's part to advertise their cards as supporting an API that doesn't really exist yet.

Doing WO media backups of photos or other irreplaceable data is a good safety measure. Its a once a year type of safety net.

I'd do another backup to a different HDD stored in a different location rather than trusting optical media. Optical media are make WORI backups (write once, read impossible) because the dyes degrade over time.

 

[MrFrenzy]

Yeah.. you may be right, perhaps I can hold off with the BR player. Too many moving pieces, and literally more junk (media disks) in an already limited space. I'm currently rearranging 1 older VM server (Win2008R2 Hyper-V/8GB ram) and a new, just now retired gaming box (16gb ram). I gotta rearchitect these machines and a bunch of drives and set up a more robust backup system.