New Gaming Machine - Help

[mattwhitt]

Hello Folks. I have built three computer so far from scratch, but I don't pretend to know a whole bunch about the different parts as far as how powerful or fast they are. My current computer is about 3 years old and I am going to be building a new one in about 3 weeks. I am going to list my current build and then the build I was intending. Am looking for some feedback on wether this will fit my needs and if there is anything I should change. I will be using this machine for hardcore gaming. My budget is about $ 1,300.00 . I will be oredering all parts from New Egg in USA. I would really appreciate some input from someone that knows a lot more then I do. I will be using Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit and my monitor is LED 1920 x 1080p resolution i will be using.
Current machine.
Motherbaord - Gygabyte GA-880GA-UDH3
Processor - AMD Phenom II X 4 965 3.4 GHz
Ram - 16 gigs 4 X 4 GSkil Ripjaws DDR3 1333 Timing 7-7-7-21 Cas Latency 7
Video Card - NVidia GTX 560 Ti
Power Supply - 700 Watt Thermaltake
HD - Western Digital 1T Sata 3
Case Thermaltake Full Tower Black Widow

New Build
Case - NZXT Phantom White ATX Full Tower
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811146067
Mobo - GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128514
Processor - AMD FX-8350 Vishera 4.0GHz (4.2GHz Turbo) Socket AM3+ 125W Eight-Core Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113284
Ram - G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 16GB (4 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231537
Video Card - EVGA 02G-P4-3660-KR GeForce GTX 660 Ti 2GB 192-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814130809
Power Supply - Rosewill LIGHTNING Series LIGHTNING-800 800W Continuous @50°C,80 PLUS GOLD Certified
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817182238
Hard Drive - Seagate Barracuda ST1000DM003 1TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822148840
Combo Drive - LG Black 10X BD-ROM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-ROM SATA Internal 12X Blu-ray Combo Drive Model UH12NS29
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827136252
Stock CPU Cooler Replacement - ARCTIC Freezer A30 CPU Cooler for AMD with 120mm PWM Fan and 4 Direct Contact Heat Pipes
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16835186059

I tried to do some research to make sure everything was compatable and I think they are. But I dont't want to waste my money if this isnt a good upgrade from my current build. Also does the power phase matter like 4+1 or 4+2 ? Will that motherboard recognize all 8 cores ? Is there a faster CPU that I should use thtas only 4 core or 6 core or does it matter ? I'm not locked into AMD, Intel will work for me too just don't know a lot about them. Thanks for any input.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

1) Keep RAM
2) Keep current HDD
3) Check out the builder's guide thats stickied

 

[Sleepingforest]

The 8350 is a competent CPU (especially in a multi-threaded application) but the Intel i5-3570K is stronger in games. If you want to support AMD, by all means grab the 8350, but you'll miss out on a bit of performance (on the bright side, you have cheaper mobos).

As someone else has said, look at the stickied $1000 build.

1/27/2013 update:
i5 3570K + ASRock Z77 Pro3 combo $287 AP
Corsair DDR3 1600 8GB $38
PowerColor 7970 $360 AR
Crucial M4 128GB $120
WD Blue 1TB $70 AP
Lite-ON DVD Burner $17
Antec Neo Eco 620C $30 AR
Corsair 200R $40 AR
Total: $962 AR AP

- The trick to using the Newegg gift cards is to place one order for the items with gift cards, wait until they email you the code (usually after the charge your CC), then place another order using the gift card codes.
- There is a dual-fan 7850 2GB available for $185 AR and a dual-fan 7950 3GB available for $280 if you want to spend less but still get very good gaming performance
- If you intend to OC (the system is capable) grab an aftermarket HSF like the budget Hyper 212+ for $20 AR or the mid-range Xigmatek Dark Knight II for $52.

However, I advocate for the Scythe Katana 4 as a cooler ($25.50 at FrozenCPU). Grab the Asrock Extreme 3 from Newegg for about $90 (including shipping); it comes with free RAM.

 

[Termie]

Welcome to the forums, mattwhitt!

It might help if you'd answer all of the questions in this sticky: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=80121

The main one you're missing right now is the purpose of the build - is it gaming, encoding, 3D modeling, just surfing the web, etc.? The other big question in your case is whether you are keeping your current build for other purposes, or if you can scavenge some parts from it.

If you're willing to scavenge, here's what I would do:
(1) use your old memory, hard drive, and power supply.
(2) buy a 120GB SSD like this Samsung to hold your OS and main apps: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820147188
(3) for gaming purposes, switch to Intel and get the 3570k plus AsRock z77 Extreme 3 mentioned by Sleepingforest above. The Intel system is on the whole going to be faster than an AMD 8350, despite having half the cores.
(4) use money saved to step up to at least a GTX670 or an HD7970 - a 660Ti just isn't a big enough upgrade from a 560Ti in my opinion: http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/547?vs=647

Any questions? Just ask!

 

[Sleepingforest]

If he feels more comfortable with AMD and understands that he'll be lower on the price/performance curve, I say let him go for it. God knows AMD needs the help.

On the other hand, if he wants the best product regardless of brand nostalgia, then I must recommend the i5-3570K. Here's an i5 build:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($219.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Scythe SCKTN-4000 55.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.00 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77-DS3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($104.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Plextor M5S Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($169.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($370.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($370.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Total: $1270.94
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-28 17:54 EST-0500)

If we reuse your case, PSU, RAM, and HDD, you can go absolutely crazy and get 7970s in Crossfire, which will play pretty much everything (yes, even Crysis). If you think microstutter might be a problem, you can use software like RadeonPro to limit framerates to between 40 and 60 FPS, which helps immensely to smooth things out.

You could go AMD, but then you can't Crossfire as easily (fewer AM3+ boards have 2 PCIe slots, and even fewer, if any, have PCIe 3.0).

 

[riversend]

I agree with the bump to a 256gb SSD, just makes program management easier and games with lots of loading move along faster.

 

[mattwhitt]

Thanks so much for the feedback, I do appreciate it and am going to go with some of your suggestions. Switching to i5-3570k 3.4 GHz processor. ASRock Z77 Extreme 3 Mobo, Plextor M5S series 256 GB SSD Drive, and upgrading to the NVidia GTX 670.

I am ordering all parts for a complete new build though. My daughter and her husband both play Rift and GW2 with me and her computer just doesnt work for gaming so I am giving my current PC to her when I build this new one.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Make sure you get a 4GB 670. It will be far more future-resistant and will perform with anti-aliasing better. Here's a build with all new parts:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($219.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Scythe SCKTN-4000 55.5 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.00 @ NCIX US)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4-M Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Plextor M5S Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($169.99 @ Microcenter)
Storage: Toshiba 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB Video Card ($427.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Silverstone TJ08B-E MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($99.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Antec Basiq Plus 550W 80 PLUS Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($54.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($16.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($92.65 @ Amazon)
Total: $1316.57 (Remember to order from Newegg in across 2 shopping carts to use the giftcard)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-28 20:03 EST-0500)

The reason for the Antec Basiq Plus rather than the Neo Eco is because the Basiq Plus is semi-modular, a key feature in a smaller case. I chose an mATX case because the smaller size may matter to some, and the Temjin is not only whisper quiet but also fits a good deal of power and cooling in.

 

[mfenn]

The build SleepingForest listed looks good except for two parts.

- It doesn't come with any RAM! Change the motherboard to the ASRock Z77 Extreme3 with free RAM that was mentioned earlier.
- I don't think that $428 is a very good deal for a card like the GTX 670. You could get a PowerColor 7970 3GB for ($360 AR) plus a Antec Neo Eco 620C ($30 AR) for about $70 less.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I'll re-iterate what Termie said. Re-use your current ram. (Addendum) ,,, if the volts are 1.5v or under. No one can beat the savings on that.

The Power Supply listed is a little too Rainbow.

If you are looking to get into Battlefield 3, stick with the GTX 670 otherwise there are alot of games that the 7970 wins in. And if you do decided to buy a 670 there are better deals than 428$ as i seen posted above. Alot of people prefer a dual fan cooling setup on the 670. I have the reference rear exhaust reference cooler and my side case is open, facing me, and it's quiet @ 60%

Can you dig it!?

 

[Termie]

Make sure you get a 4GB 670. It will be far more future-resistant and will perform with anti-aliasing better.

....

Actually, I'm going to disagree with that statement. Several reviews over at HardOCP have shown that in most games, the 4GB GTX670 is actually slower than the 2GB version (most likely due to the timing on the memory used). And in the few games where 2GB VRAM becomes a bottleneck, the card is far too slow to take advantage of it.

GTX670 4GB review: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/01/08/asus_geforce_gtx_670_directcu_ii_4gb_gpu_review/
GTX670 4GB SLI review: http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/01/14/asus_geforce_gtx_670_directcu_ii_4gb_sli_review/

Definitely do not spend over $400 on a GTX670. I'd aim closer to $330 if you can. Otherwise go for the HD7970.

BTW, in case you're interested, the AsRock z77 Extreme3 just got a glowing review over at XBitLabs: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mainboards/display/asrock-z77-extreme3.html

 

[Sleepingforest]

Okay, listen to Termie then and save around $90. I did not realize that the higher memory would incur a penalty (and forgot that you were at 1080p so it doesn't really matter).

 

[riversend]

OP cannot move all the RAM to the new system because it will be adonor to family. However he could splitthe 4x4 into two sets of 2x4. Just a thought.

 

[Davidh373]

If you are going to be getting an Intel System, you will max out the capacity of your Memory at 16GB with Windows 7 Home Premium. Your Motherboard, however, will support 32GB. Just a thought, but you may want to consider Windows 7 Professional if you want 32GB, or think you may use the extra capacity in the future. Today, RAM is real cheap... and I do mean REAL cheap, so I can only imagine it will keep getting cheaper.

Just a side note, I bought my RAM for my old workstation (6 GB [3 x 2GB]) for $150 5 years ago. 2 years ago I doubled that for $60 (12GB [3 x 4GB]). Now, for my new build, I have 16GB (2 x 8GB) and I got it for $70.

 

[Sleepingforest]

He's gaming, so he won't see any huge benefits from going over 16GB (for the games released over the course of 2012, 8GB is ample). IF he wants to go over 16GB, then your advice makes sense, but it just doesn't make much sense, in terms of performance, to do so.

 

[Davidh373]

He's gaming, so he won't see any huge benefits from going over 16GB (for the games released over the course of 2012, 8GB is ample). IF he wants to go over 16GB, then your advice makes sense, but it just doesn't make much sense, in terms of performance, to do so.

Sure, but say he wanted to go to 32GB (Theoretically) in the future. He would have to pay for the RAM, and $80 for the upgrade to pro. Really not all that easy to justify that upgrade when in all likelihood he'll pay more for the OS upgrade than he will for the RAM in the future.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

OP. Keep Task Manager opened while running the games you play. If you go over half (8Gb) then you will have to make a decision with buying more ram. In the likely-hood that you don't see the games use more than 8Gb, split the ram between machines. Plain and simple.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Sure, but say he wanted to go to 32GB (Theoretically) in the future. He would have to pay for the RAM, and $80 for the upgrade to pro. Really not all that easy to justify that upgrade when in all likelihood he'll pay more for the OS upgrade than he will for the RAM in the future.

I see what you mean about the OS; I am actually running Windows 8 Pro (the total cost was around $110, $95 for Win7 HP, $15 for the upgrade) both for added security features and the RAM support.

Maybe get 2x4GB now, and be ready for another 2x8GB sticks in the future if he needs more (total of 24GB)?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

The future is DDR4

 

[Sleepingforest]

The future is DDR4

Yes, but it's not like the release of the first DDR4 stick will make DDR3 impossible to find. There are many people on these very forums who may be parting out or selling old DDR3 RAM, and retailers will probably not clear out their stocks of DDR3 until later this year.

 

[Davidh373]

We still sell DDR memory DIMMS at Best Buy... They still MAKE DDR DIMMS... DDR3 isn't going anywhere. and why are you guys arguing over $40? Nobody seems to argue over the recommendation of a $350 GPU, but the thought of paying $40-$60 for new RAM seems outrageous to everyone. It's the outrage of the century! xD

Proof: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...28PC%202100%29

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...1 600006083&IsNodeId=1&name=DDR 333 (PC 2700)

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

The point is he can split the 16Gb of ram between 2 machines and save money which is better savings than buying RAM. There is no need for huge gobs of memory unless he is a professional photographer using his computer for pic editing, or running alot of virtual machines, hence the OP title. Then I suggested why doesn't he open Task Manager, play his games, and see if he goes over 8Gb.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Yes, but it's not like the release of the first DDR4 stick will make DDR3 impossible to find. There are many people on these very forums who may be parting out or selling old DDR3 RAM, and retailers will probably not clear out their stocks of DDR3 until later this year.

That is still no reason to buy RAM if it's not observantly being used.

 

[Sleepingforest]

Yeah, he could spend an extra $40 now--and potentially not need it for 1-2 years. Yes, compared to $1300, it's only around 3% of his budget, but money outright wasted, no matter how small, should still be avoided.

 

[Davidh373]

Yeah, he could spend an extra $40 now--and potentially not need it for 1-2 years. Yes, compared to $1300, it's only around 3% of his budget, but money outright wasted, no matter how small, should still be avoided.

I'm just talking about new Ram in general. 8GB is $40, and as far as I can tell we're talking about him ghetto splitting his RAM and having 4GB in his old rig, and 4GB in his new beast. Makes no sense to me. Just buy new RAM. 8GB is $40, 16GB is $70. Just be done with it.