New Furnace or Indirect Fired Hot Water Heater pricing

[Modeps]

To help resolve my water issue (no hot water in my shower during the winter, just lukewarm/cold), I called a local heating/plumbing guy. We've got an oil burner and get our hot water directly off of the furnace currently. It also heats the house... so in the winter, the furnace is working to heat the house and not worrying about the water.

Anyways, I'm just looking at what I can expect from estimates. I plan on calling a second person to compare prices, but figured I'd throw it out there first.

1) How much for a purchase/install of a new furnace?
2) How much for a purchase/install of an indirect fired hot water heater?

 

[Modeps]

bumpy?

 

[nakedfrog]

I would guesstimate furnace installation/purchase at $1500-3000.

Do you have duct work in place already?

 

[piasabird]

Hot water Heater = $300.00
If you never had one there has to be a connecting flew above the hot water heater if it is gas to go to the exhaust.
Alternative is an electric hot water heater. They have some new units that heat the water as you need it. I would expect a similar price. I dont know if they make Oil fed hot water heaters.

You may just need some work done on your boiler or whatever. I know nothing about oil furnaces because in the midwest where I live we use Natural Gas or electric.

Suggest you watch "This Old House!" They somtimes do some work on this stuff on the east coast.

 

[cardiac]

If you currently have a boiler, and no duct work, it will be pretty pricey. If you put in a forced air furnace, you must to have ductwork for the heat to travel through. Might be cheaper to put in a new boiler/repair what you have.....

Hot water heater is going to run you about $800 or so. Remember, this is like a new install. Must be re-plumbed, and a a flue stack run for the exhaust....

 

[slsmnaz]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Hot water Heater = $300.00
If you never had one there has to be a connecting flew above the hot water heater if it is gas to go to the exhaust.
Alternative is an electric hot water heater. They have some new units that heat the water as you need it. I would expect a similar price. I dont know if they make Oil fed hot water heaters.

You may just need some work done on your boiler or whatever. I know nothing about oil furnaces because in the midwest where I live we use Natural Gas or electric.

Suggest you watch "This Old House!" They somtimes do some work on this stuff on the east coast.

Unfortunately modeps is looking for a much different unit. I checked the prices on the indirect heaters my company sells and you're looking at $1500-2000 for the unit itself depending on size (no idea on install pricing).

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: cardiac
If you currently have a boiler, and no duct work, it will be pretty pricey. If you put in a forced air furnace, you must to have ductwork for the heat to travel through. Might be cheaper to put in a new boiler/repair what you have.....

Hot water heater is going to run you about $800 or so. Remember, this is like a new install. Must be re-plumbed, and a a flue stack run for the exhaust....

Why would I want to install ductwork? I've got baseboard heating with the hot water the boiler generates. Like I said, the issue is that, in the winter, the boiler is heating the house and not pushing enough of the hot water to things like the shower.

The brand of boiler that the guy coming tomorrow works with is called Buderus. No idea if that's good or not 🙂

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: slsmnaz

Originally posted by: piasabird
Hot water Heater = $300.00
If you never had one there has to be a connecting flew above the hot water heater if it is gas to go to the exhaust.
Alternative is an electric hot water heater. They have some new units that heat the water as you need it. I would expect a similar price. I dont know if they make Oil fed hot water heaters.

You may just need some work done on your boiler or whatever. I know nothing about oil furnaces because in the midwest where I live we use Natural Gas or electric.

Suggest you watch "This Old House!" They somtimes do some work on this stuff on the east coast.

Unfortunately modeps is looking for a much different unit. I checked the prices on the indirect heaters my company sells and you're looking at $1500-2000 for the unit itself depending on size (no idea on install pricing).

Right, its not a straight up hot water heater.

 

[DrPizza]

I'm leaning toward there might be a problem of some sort with the way the present system is hooked up. I wouldn't think an oil burner would have trouble maintaining the house in the winter plus a hot water tank. Then again, I'm not really familiar with a system that takes care of both. My oil fired hot water tank is completely separate from the boiler for the hot water baseboard. I won't know why. (But, I like it that way since I've never used the oil for heating the house.)

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
I'm leaning toward there might be a problem of some sort with the way the present system is hooked up. I wouldn't think an oil burner would have trouble maintaining the house in the winter plus a hot water tank. Then again, I'm not really familiar with a system that takes care of both. My oil fired hot water tank is completely separate from the boiler for the hot water baseboard. I won't know why. (But, I like it that way since I've never used the oil for heating the house.)

Funny you should mention that you think there may be an issue. The guy I've been talking with seemed to think my issue is fairly common but... let me tell you a little story.

There is something very strange in my basement. I've got a 3/4 finished basement. The parts that are not finished are where my oil tank is, and where the boiler is. When I was in the furnace area one day, I noticed that the previous owner had left some wallboard in a narrow space located behind the finished walls... the space seemed to go the length of the house so I took a flashlight and shined it behind just to take a peek.

What did I find? Not treasure. Its an electric water heater. Someone, at some time actually WALLED this thing in, they framed around it and eveything and there is no way to get at it without ripping down the wallboard.

I *presume* that its not hooked up to anything anymore, and that the water is shut off to it, but I cant be sure. There are pipes over in that area, and they connect to other pipes that I'm having a hard time following. The easy thing to follow though was the electrical wire coming from it. I followed it over to my breaker box and it's cut (no power to the heater).

I certainly think its a BAD idea to have it there, unless there's no water in it... then whatever. But I really dont know one way or the other without tearing down this wall. I have no clue as to why someone would actually leave it in place if it was not functional though, and WALL IT IN. 😕

Hopefully this dude coming tomorrow will be able to answer that.

 

[Lvis]

My folks had the same problem. They decided to just install a small electric water heater. It was far cheaper than a new furnace. Although in my opinion using a furnace from the 50's is probably not very efficent.

 

[Modeps]

So, the guy came and we talked quite a bit. He mentioned my furnace was at least 20 years old and of course, recommended that it be replaced with their Buderus system. Its not just a furnace to heat the house, it also has an indirect hot water heater and all these fancy computer controls to monitor outdoor temperature (so when its above a certain temp outside, it shuts down part of the setup and only heats hot water).

I showed him the electric walled in heater, and he said most likely its turned off and disconnected, but he would check it out when/if they installed stuff. They also said that code requires a liner be added to the vent, which was not covered in his price as they dont do that. That alone because of the price of steel would range from $1k to $2k (but he couldnt give a price for sure).

Total system price, including permits, plumbing, electrical, removal of old unit, installation, etc: $9800 (no sales tax thanks to energy star).

Yikes. The new furnace certainly would burn oil more efficiently, which could provide significant savings as oil is nuts right now and costs more than a gallon of gas. I'll check around for more estimates but honestly, I figured a new system would run around $10k, not $3k, but when I heard $3k from my coworker and even Nakedfrog here, I was optimistic.

Long term, it'll probably pay for itself... Short term... ouch.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Do you have an oil tank outside or is it coming in through a pipe? I'm not 100% sure what kind of system you have.

My recommendation is to abandon the current hot water heater. They sell gas and electric tankless units. To be able to work in your area, it will have to be a beefier system...just because it's heating really cold water through its coils, but they still should be no more than $700 for a MEGA unit. I would expect $550 for a really nice one from Lowes.

You can install it yourself by finding a place to mount it and run the electrical/pipes to its location. Then just cut off your water one day and switch over. I would only expect maybe $3-400 to get someone to install it. Don't replace your heating unit until it dies. No matter how efficient they claim its going to be, it probably won't be worth it. If oil prices keep rising, you will eventually find cheap furnaces.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

The key when buying furnaces/air conditioning units is you want to shop for the UNIT, not just the installation. A significantly better unit can probably be had for only a minimal increase in cost.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Do you have an oil tank outside or is it coming in through a pipe? I'm not 100% sure what kind of system you have.

My recommendation is to abandon the current hot water heater. They sell gas and electric tankless units. To be able to work in your area, it will have to be a beefier system...just because it's heating really cold water through its coils, but they still should be no more than $700 for a MEGA unit. I would expect $550 for a really nice one from Lowes.

You can install it yourself by finding a place to mount it and run the electrical/pipes to its location. Then just cut off your water one day and switch over. I would only expect maybe $3-400 to get someone to install it. Don't replace your heating unit until it dies. No matter how efficient they claim its going to be, it probably won't be worth it. If oil prices keep rising, you will eventually find cheap furnaces.

Just going out on a limb here, but I doubt the OP has gas available. If he did, he wouldn't be heating with oil. As far as not replacing the furnace - you may be right. At 10k for the new furnace, it would take a heck of a long time to break even, when compared to the efficiency of even a 20 year old furnace. i.e. if it's 30% more efficient, the OP can figure it out: 30% of how much he pays a year is how much money he saves. Say, he spends $2500 on fuel oil a year, that would save $750 a year. Over 13 years to break even. Of course, that ignores inflation, changing oil prices, energy star tax write-offs, etc.

Still, 10k sounds like a pretty high price to me. 2 to 3k to line a chimney also sounds pretty high. But, then again, I've never really priced an oil system before.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Scarpozzi
Do you have an oil tank outside or is it coming in through a pipe? I'm not 100% sure what kind of system you have.

My recommendation is to abandon the current hot water heater. They sell gas and electric tankless units. To be able to work in your area, it will have to be a beefier system...just because it's heating really cold water through its coils, but they still should be no more than $700 for a MEGA unit. I would expect $550 for a really nice one from Lowes.

You can install it yourself by finding a place to mount it and run the electrical/pipes to its location. Then just cut off your water one day and switch over. I would only expect maybe $3-400 to get someone to install it. Don't replace your heating unit until it dies. No matter how efficient they claim its going to be, it probably won't be worth it. If oil prices keep rising, you will eventually find cheap furnaces.

Just going out on a limb here, but I doubt the OP has gas available. If he did, he wouldn't be heating with oil. As far as not replacing the furnace - you may be right. At 10k for the new furnace, it would take a heck of a long time to break even, when compared to the efficiency of even a 20 year old furnace. i.e. if it's 30% more efficient, the OP can figure it out: 30% of how much he pays a year is how much money he saves. Say, he spends $2500 on fuel oil a year, that would save $750 a year. Over 13 years to break even. Of course, that ignores inflation, changing oil prices, energy star tax write-offs, etc.

Still, 10k sounds like a pretty high price to me. 2 to 3k to line a chimney also sounds pretty high. But, then again, I've never really priced an oil system before.

Our electric rates right now are stupid high. They just had a 40% increase in pricing and are contemplating more... there's not much I can do there and would rather avoid electric water heating. Electric tanks, in the long run will be more expensive and I don't have any gas (except after beans) available. Allegedly, the more efficient the furnace is than your existing system, it actually has an exponential positive effect on your usage of oil.

I don't know what I'm going to do yet, but at least I've got the ball rolling and have our first option.