New F-150

[LTC8K6]

The issue with all online-complaints are that they are exacerbated by a couple effects. The first is the 'me too' effect. A bunch of people jump on the band wagon because it's so easy.

The second is that you may find a thread containing 30 complaints. Reading them all together seems to be a big red flag. It's hard for people to put that into perspective. Of the hundreds of thousands of F-150 ecoboosts that have been sold, a very tiny percentage have complaints.

One could compare it to the Samsung S4 cracked glass/oled problem currently going around. A thread with 200 complaints sound bad, until you consider that they've sold well over 20 million units.

Don't think I'm discount it. Clearly there is an issue Ford needs to fix. Logic would dictate, though, that this problem isn't nearly as big as it looks from online forums. After all, the NHTSA has been looking since May 28 and not said boo about it.

I don't think it's widespread. I do think it has carried over to 2013 models, though. :biggrin:

 

[xBiffx]

I don't think it's widespread. I do think it has carried over to 2013 models, though. :biggrin:

Not sure why you would with the redesigned intercooler to address specifically the issues that you have brought up and mum from NHTSA.

 

[xBiffx]

This was your statement.
>> Tell me another truck that can tow and still get double digit MPG. <<

I replied that essentially, many trucks can tow and get double digit MPG. (Double digit being >9 mpg, i.e. 10 mpg).

Well done. I didn't say anywhere that it can't happen or they don't exist. What I did say is that the ecoboost will consistently beat them all.

 

[LTC8K6]

Not sure why you would with the redesigned intercooler to address specifically the issues that you have brought up and mum from NHTSA.

I don't mind you ignoring what I've posted, but I'll just remind the others who may be reading that the NHTSA investigation includes 2013's, people with 2013's have reported the problem, and people with 2012's who have had the 2013 intercooler installed have reported that the problem still exists.

The Ford service bulletin apparently also includes 2013's.

The problem is not widespread though, and seems to occur in a narrow circumstance.

 

[rancherlee]

YES the problem exists in the 2013's also. The 13's come from the factory with "the fix" that was performed on the 2011-2012's and the issue still happens though not as often. As I said before 4 out 5 Eco owners I know have ad the issue and one of them is a 2013 and another has had "the fix" and still experiences the problem but all of them still love the power and the truck as the problem doesn't happen too frequently if you know what conditions cause it. To me, I wouldn't trust and engine after its sucked in water, you just don't know how MUCH it sucked in and if its caused any damage that may go 1000's of miles before it rears its ugly head. Out of all the blown up Eco-boost and the one I seen at the local dealership ALL of them has shown signs of hydro-lock damage which points directly to the intercooler condensation problem. Its a great engine that performs quite well but is hindered by mediocre intercooler setup that can cause issues in areas susceptible to high dewpoints/foggy weather.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Well done. I didn't say anywhere that it can't happen or they don't exist. What I did say is that the ecoboost will consistently beat them all.

Wrong again. It can't even get better mileage than the "lesser" 5.0 engine.
The 5.0 beats it in reliability, cost, and mpg is a tie. Everyone except a fanboy that needs to justify their purchase can see the 5.0 as the better option.

 

[xBiffx]

YES the problem exists in the 2013's also. The 13's come from the factory with "the fix" that was performed on the 2011-2012's and the issue still happens though not as often. As I said before 4 out 5 Eco owners I know have ad the issue and one of them is a 2013 and another has had "the fix" and still experiences the problem but all of them still love the power and the truck as the problem doesn't happen too frequently if you know what conditions cause it. To me, I wouldn't trust and engine after its sucked in water, you just don't know how MUCH it sucked in and if its caused any damage that may go 1000's of miles before it rears its ugly head. Out of all the blown up Eco-boost and the one I seen at the local dealership ALL of them has shown signs of hydro-lock damage which points directly to the intercooler condensation problem. Its a great engine that performs quite well but is hindered by mediocre intercooler setup that can cause issues in areas susceptible to high dewpoints/foggy weather.

There is no "fix" for the '13's. They have an entirely redesigned intercooler. If you have a friend having issues, then it isn't the same problem.

I work for a seed research company here in the midwest. They use F150's and F250's in their fleet (2011's and 2012's). The F150's are almost all ECO's. We are talking about many thousands of trucks. I have asked the fleet manager here about this issue before I purchased my truck. They have had no problems with this.

Again, there have been less than 100 reported cases in over 400,000 engines.

4 out of 5 of the people you are talking to are idiots.

 

[xBiffx]

Wrong again. It can't even get better mileage than the "lesser" 5.0 engine.
The 5.0 beats it in reliability, cost, and mpg is a tie. Everyone except a fanboy that needs to justify their purchase can see the 5.0 as the better option.

You have zero to back that up. The ecoboost costs more, yes. But it pays back on mileage. They DO NOT get the exact same mileage. 1-2 MPG is going to payback, especially if gas keeps going up.

As far as reliability, you have no data to actually back it up. Just hype.

 

[Pulsar]

You have zero to back that up. The ecoboost costs more, yes. But it pays back on mileage. They DO NOT get the exact same mileage. 1-2 MPG is going to payback, especially if gas keeps going up.

As far as reliability, you have no data to actually back it up. Just hype.

Actually I want to modify that a bit. The ecoboost does cost more. The only way you can recoup that cost is by towing a lot. So whether or not you recoup your cost is really dependent on how you use the truck.

A lot of people think that 1-2 MPG isn't much. In the context of a Prius Hybrid, whose base MPG may be up in the 40's or 50's, it really isn't. But when you're talking about a truck who gets 8-12 MPG towing, that 2 MPG can be 20%! Imagine a 20% reduction in fuel costs. You can see how that tiny difference really can add up.

Finally, many people are a bit misguided about reliability. They have the mistaken belief that 'more parts' or 'more complexity' means less reliability. The two are not connected in the automotive world anymore. Old cars were far less complex than the current ones, yet new cars routinely last 200,000 to 300,000 with little more than routine maintainance.

Is a turbo system more complex that just more displacement? Certainly. But turbos have been around for a long, long time. The 'modern' turbocharger was designed in 1905. American cars have used them, pretty much all long-haul diesel trucks use them, and a huge proportion of european cars are turbocharged. The technology is mature, and certainly is nothing to worry about in terms of longevity. This isn't a complicated mechanical device that sees high load. It's a pump that moves air.

 

[Pulsar]

YES the problem exists in the 2013's also. The 13's come from the factory with "the fix" that was performed on the 2011-2012's and the issue still happens though not as often. As I said before 4 out 5 Eco owners I know have ad the issue and one of them is a 2013 and another has had "the fix" and still experiences the problem but all of them still love the power and the truck as the problem doesn't happen too frequently if you know what conditions cause it. To me, I wouldn't trust and engine after its sucked in water, you just don't know how MUCH it sucked in and if its caused any damage that may go 1000's of miles before it rears its ugly head. Out of all the blown up Eco-boost and the one I seen at the local dealership ALL of them has shown signs of hydro-lock damage which points directly to the intercooler condensation problem. Its a great engine that performs quite well but is hindered by mediocre intercooler setup that can cause issues in areas susceptible to high dewpoints/foggy weather.

The problem isn't your statement. It's your factual backup that is in doubt. Anecdotal evidence is rarely correct, and in your case it appears to directly contradict what is known. In which case, most people would much rather rely on actual data.

Blown up eco-boosts? That's the first I've heard of it. Everything I've heard says that the water ingestion results in the engine going into limp-mode or open loop control until you reset it or take it to the dealership.

Can you link to a reputable source that shows an ecoboost has hydrolocked because of this issue? I'm having trouble finding any. I found some funny articles at Tundra net (toyota) and Gm Insider that have people 'guessing' what it might be, but that's like going to Stormfront to try to get unbiased political news......

 

[fbrdphreak]

I hope your daily commute isn't very far.

Just curious. I commute 60+ miles a day in SoCal traffic and I don't like filling up every 4 days so neither of those vehicles would work for me.

Congrats on the new sled.

WOOT! $150 per fillup!!! I'd probably have to visit a gas station about as often as I do with my Camry Hybrid but it only costs me $50 to fill that up.

Wow, imagine that, the hippie liberal douche from California is crapping in a thread about a horrible gas guzzling earth-killing truck. I am shocked!

 

[Pulsar]

Wow, imagine that, the hippie liberal douche from California is crapping in a thread about a horrible gas guzzling earth-killing truck. I am shocked!

On the bright side, at least this time he's not posting articles that highlight how enjoyable the sound is when you slam your bike into car mirrors while lane splitting.

 

[rancherlee]

The problem isn't your statement. It's your factual backup that is in doubt. Anecdotal evidence is rarely correct, and in your case it appears to directly contradict what is known. In which case, most people would much rather rely on actual data.

Blown up eco-boosts? That's the first I've heard of it. Everything I've heard says that the water ingestion results in the engine going into limp-mode or open loop control until you reset it or take it to the dealership.

Can you link to a reputable source that shows an ecoboost has hydrolocked because of this issue? I'm having trouble finding any. I found some funny articles at Tundra net (toyota) and Gm Insider that have people 'guessing' what it might be, but that's like going to Stormfront to try to get unbiased political news......

I'm a frequent visitor on F150forum.com, there have been 4 or 5 over the past year on the 2009+ "2011 engines" sub forum that have puked and looking at the pictures that some of them posted it points to hydro-lock IMO. The one at the local ford garage was brought in for excessive oil usage, the cause, a cracked piston and a slightly bent rod with NO impact damage to the piston surface or head. The Owner of the truck had only one incident of the water ingestion issue about 6 months prior. I've been working on cars since I was 5 years old, use to be a ASE master certified mechanic before changing professions, and have built quite a few mud trucks so I KNOW what hydro-lock looks like as I've wrecked a few engine by drowning them. Simple math, over 1/2 cup of water in intercooler + quick uptake of said water + velocity of air throwing all the NON COMPRESSIBLE water to rear cylinders = A lot of strain on piston/rod combo and the water doesn't give. Hell, I've seen guys poor a whole cup+ of water out of there inter coolers and post pictures on that forum over the years.

To be fair, Fords F150 isn't the only one to accumulate water intercooler, most intercoolers that are set up like the way F-150's is mounted will build up water over time if there isn't much airflow through the cooler for extended periods of time in the right conditions. Where I live the problem seems to pop up more because you need to take a good 60+ mile drive to get to a bigger town get supplies and that 60 mile cruise on a foggy spring or fall morning is prime conditions for accumulating water and the first time you have to jump on the throttle in town guess what happens? I've had it happen twice on my supercharged V6 Thunderbird with inter cooler mounted in similar way, hasn't happened since I changed it out to a bottom draw style water cooled after cooler as there isn't a place for the water to accumulate then.

Yes, many people don't have the issue, but there is A LOT more than "100" out 400,000+ have had the issue. People that NEVER boot it to WOT don't see the issue, People that can the throttle a lot don't see the issue (clearing moisture before it builds), people that drive less than 60 miles each day/way don't see this issue. People that don't deal with frequent fog or high humidity never see the issue. People towing don't have an issue. Its only the people that have extended drives with a light throttle in the right conditions that have a chance of this issue popping up. Probably less than 5% of people that bought an F150 Eco-boost actually see those set of conditions.

I'm FAR from a ford hater (own a 10' Fusion, 12' F150 5.0) and FAR from a boosted 6 cylinder in a truck hater and just about purchased one myself if I hadn't taken I ride in one an experienced the issue first hand. I'm just talking about what I'VE experienced and what I've heard from my buddies about their own trucks. Does the problem happen frequently, HELL NO, does it happen YES. The 13' owner that had it happen is a 13' which came from the factory with the deflector installed already on the original style intercooler and has only had the Issue happen once. 2 others with 11's have only had 2-3 instances of the "issue" in 2 years of ownership. And the last poor fellow, who should REALLY get a car for his commute, has had it happen over a dozen times with his 12', even after the deflector was installed. His commute to work is 80 miles one way on 2 lane blacktop which builds water, why he drives a truck 160 miles a day as a commuter beats me?

 

[xBiffx]

-snip-

Perhaps you need to find the definition of anecdotal evidence before posting a wall of text next time.

Again, there is nothing factual to backup anything you say. That is/was the entire point here. Lots of hype over a small problem that has been dealt with already. The fact is there HAVE been less than 100 recorded cases of this happening.

Again, the '13 owner you supposedly know that had this issue is experiencing something else. There are many on forums out there that are attributing other issues to the inter cooler one. One of the biggest offenders is the spark plug gap quality issue that was rampant in '11's and '12's. Many had plugs gapped anywhere from 0.35 to 0.45 (the factory gap should be 0.30) and they were not all the same either. Although I'm highly skeptical that this is your friends issue as well as this problem seems to have been dealt with as well with the addition of higher quality control standards before the vehicles leave the factory. Also I think Ford might have actually lowered the factory gap from 0.36 to 0.30 as the new standard in the '13's. I've checked my plugs out of curiosity and they all are exactly 0.30. Perhaps tell your friend to do the same?

 

[Greenman]

Wrong again. It can't even get better mileage than the "lesser" 5.0 engine.
The 5.0 beats it in reliability, cost, and mpg is a tie. Everyone except a fanboy that needs to justify their purchase can see the 5.0 as the better option.

The 5.0 has less a bit less torque than the EB (40 pounds), and it peaks 2000 RPM's higher. EPA estimate is 1 MPG lower.

 

[railer]

Wrong again. It can't even get better mileage than the "lesser" 5.0 engine.
The 5.0 beats it in reliability, cost, and mpg is a tie. Everyone except a fanboy that needs to justify their purchase can see the 5.0 as the better option.

Where is your reliability data on the 5.0 vs. ecoboost? Don't tell me "more parts equals higher failure rate". That's not data, that's just an ignorant opinion. Cars today are much more complex, complicated, and have "more parts" to use your terminology, but are certainly much, much more reliable than the simple cars of 50 years ago.

The ecoboost gets better gas mileage, and has more horsepower and torque than the 5.0.
It costs $800 more than the 5.0. There is a reason for that cost difference, and there's a reason that the ecoboost outsells the 5.0, even at a price premium.

There's nothing terribly complicated about this.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I'd be happy to pass on any factual data you have.

Of course, I've made a similar offer a number of other times and the trolls just seem to slink away.

I forgot about this thread.

I used to work at the largest dealership in the Southeast, which happens to be a Ford store. I am an independent vendor now, but they are still my biggest customer.

I was there today and the guy there I'd consider to be the best there is at diagnosing and repairing Fords was working on an Eco truck. The moisture issue.

He said they had done an innumerable amount. Based on the size of the dealership, I'd say dozens, just at that one place. They've changed and changed the repair, and still haven't gotten it satisfactory yet, in his opinion. Still seeing them come back. And yes, this extends to the 2013's.

Yes, it is a BIG problem, and it's most prevalent in humid climates, like the South. So if you live in a drier place, like Nevada, you probably won't have the issue.

 

[xBiffx]

I forgot about this thread.

I used to work at the largest dealership in the Southeast, which happens to be a Ford store. I am an independent vendor now, but they are still my biggest customer.

I was there today and the guy there I'd consider to be the best there is at diagnosing and repairing Fords was working on an Eco truck. The moisture issue.

He said they had done an innumerable amount. Based on the size of the dealership, I'd say dozens, just at that one place. They've changed and changed the repair, and still haven't gotten it satisfactory yet, in his opinion. Still seeing them come back. And yes, this extends to the 2013's.

Yes, it is a BIG problem, and it's most prevalent in humid climates, like the South. So if you live in a drier place, like Nevada, you probably won't have the issue.

Yet with the humid climate here in the Midwest and having talked to our fleet manager for the seed research company I work for who manages thousands of F-150s, the majority of which are Eco's, hasn't seen this issue even once. Most of the trucks are pre '13's too.

I'd say the issue is as isolated as the NHTSA numbers show.