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New evidence found that may show the "previous universe"

Fritzo

Fritzo

Lifer
I'm very familiar with Sir Roger Penrose's work- he's basically Stephen Hawking's right hand man. I used to joke that if he was handicapped he'd be just as popular as Hawking 😉

Anyway, his huge brain is working again and after studying the cosmic microwave background research, he may have found "ripples" that show black holes from a universe that used to exist before ours, and may throw the current inflationary views of our current universe on it's ear. Mind blowing stuff:

http://io9.com/5694701/does-cosmic-...universe-before-the-big-bang?skyline=true&s=i


BTW- Read up on Penrose, his views on human intelligence are fascinating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Penrose
 
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He contradicts himself with this theory.

This is because black holes suck in all the matter, energy, and information they encounter, which works to remove entropy from our universe. (Where that entropy might go is another question entirely.) The universe's continued expansion into eventual nothingness causes the black holes themselves to evaporate, which ultimately leaves the universe in a highly ordered state once again, ready to contract into another singularity and set off the next Big Bang.
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Penrose believes these circles are windows into the previous universe, spherical ripples left behind by the gravitational effects of colliding black holes in the previous universe. He also says these circles don't work well at all in the current inflationary model, which holds all temperature variations in the CMB should be truly random.
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Now granted, he doesn't state this cyclical model removes all entropy from the universe, but it is implied that there wouldn't be any measurable entropy left in the universe. Given that all matter, energy and more importantly information would have been sucked up by the black holes in this theory, it would be impossible to have these "shadow halos" left from the previous universe, as all information etc. would have been removed from it.

"Shens."
 
That may explain the massive FUUUUUUU- I heard in my head a bit ago. Must've been God realizing that he shouldn't have outsourced the clean up Job to Muhammad.
 
SunnyD said:
He contradicts himself with this theory.





Now granted, he doesn't state this cyclical model removes all entropy from the universe, but it is implied that there wouldn't be any measurable entropy left in the universe. Given that all matter, energy and more importantly information would have been sucked up by the black holes in this theory, it would be impossible to have these "shadow halos" left from the previous universe, as all information etc. would have been removed from it.

"Shens."
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We see gravitational effects from black holes all the time. This is not contradicting himself. Information refers to matter, not gravitational effects.
 
This universe is simply the latest incarnation of it. It's been around for eternity. Every hundred or so billion years it simply wipes itself clean to start the next universe. There were advanced civilizations hundreds of trillions of years ago.

That voice in my head never lies.

http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html
 
Fritzo said:
We see gravitational effects from black holes all the time. This is not contradicting himself. Information refers to matter, not gravitational effects.
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Of course we see gravitational effects due to black holes that exist. The gravitational effects are visible in the MATTER that exists around them. He's talking about black holes that have long-since evaporated from a previous universe. If the black hole was #1 - in a previous universe and #2 - evaporated, it would be impossible for his theory to exist unless the two universes overlapped at some point in time.

Let me restate this a little. If the black hole evaporates, there is no further effect which would be visible to provide information from that point on. If the black hole was in a previous universe, that implies a temporal and mechanical barrier in which the effects of said black hole would be masked via both space and time from us - unless the two universes are not mutually exclusive. If they are not mutually exclusive, then his theory is invalid regardless.

Before you ask, yes, I do agree that the aftereffects of an evaporated black hole could be readily visible. However they would only be visible in the current space-time that the black hole existed in. Remember, when the universe ends, space-time for that locality also ends. Time may progress freely, but there's no space and hence no matter, energy or information left to pass along.
 
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
— Douglas Adams ~ The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 
Among the many things I don't understand is why an expanded universe into which black holes have slowly evaporated would be thought to have a highly ordered state (i.e. low enthropy). Wouldn't a diffuse distribution of matter across the universe have high enthropy?

And if the current measurements of the expansion of space are right, then gravity isn't strong enough to lead to a contraction of matter back into a singularity.

I remember reading that the small fluctuations in the background microwave radiation might have resulted from quantum fluctuations in the very early universe that were greatly magnified during the inflationary period.

Interesting stuff!
 
Penrose and his colleague Vahe Gurzadyan have discovered clear concentric circles within the data, which suggests regions of the radiation have much smaller temperature ranges than elsewhere. So what does that mean? Penrose believes these circles are windows into the previous universe, spherical ripples left behind by the gravitational effects of colliding black holes in the previous universe. He also says these circles don't work well at all in the current inflationary model, which holds all temperature variations in the CMB should be truly random.
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dat sum evidence. srsly
 
Could it be a universe outside of this one? The single universe concept has always bothered me, and I'd like to see evidence of another universe.
 
Physicists have been throwing out theories based on some preliminary findings since Aristotle (and probably before him). The point of putting a theory out there is to point out potential new experiments which will support certain points of the theory, then, in all likelihood, eventually overturn the theory. Penrose is doing exactly that here. He did some analysis of the data, found some interesting patterns which everyone had previously neglected, then wrote one possible explanation for those patterns. That's just how the game is played.

On a side note, I had a beer sitting next to Penrose in a pub in Oxford last September. I knew who he was (because I'm that big of a dork, which is why I was in Oxford in the first place), but didn't have a chance to buy him a pint since he left due to the onset of what can only be described as... an erotic poetry recitation.
 
this vid is totally awesome and everyone should watch it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMfW1jY1xE

Universes seem to be just a fluctuation in the entropy of an infinitely expanded older universe. The 2nd law of thermodynamics is more of a 'suggestion' than a law.

If you had billions of billions of years to wait, the air molecules in the room you're in would eventually all be in one half of the room purely by chance... spontaneously the entropy can decrease

Similarly if you have an eternity to wait, a fluctuation could spring into existence a new universe out of an infinitely expanded high entropy one.
 
CycloWizard said:
Physicists have been throwing out theories based on some preliminary findings since Aristotle (and probably before him). The point of putting a theory out there is to point out potential new experiments which will support certain points of the theory, then, in all likelihood, eventually overturn the theory. Penrose is doing exactly that here. He did some analysis of the data, found some interesting patterns which everyone had previously neglected, then wrote one possible explanation for those patterns. That's just how the game is played.

On a side note, I had a beer sitting next to Penrose in a pub in Oxford last September. I knew who he was (because I'm that big of a dork, which is why I was in Oxford in the first place), but didn't have a chance to buy him a pint since he left due to the onset of what can only be described as... an erotic poetry recitation.
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That's awesome. I would love to meet any of the great minds of our time. People like this should be like rock stars- they do so much to advance human understanding, and numberous side technologies and research comes out of ideas like this.

However, most people are content with idolizing Situation, Snookie, and so-forth. Those morons make more per episode for acting like complete degenerates than I do in a year, and yet the greatest people of society work behind closed doors with little recognition. It's sickening. One of my favorite movies is Idiocracy, because it's true on so many levels.
 
GagHalfrunt said:
"There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened."
— Douglas Adams ~ The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Click to expand...

Perfect...
 
NeedWeed.jpg
 
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