New E4 Venice stepping vs old, which is better for OCing?

[cheap]

Hello, there's a new E4 Venice stepping out and I was wondering if you guys had any information about it. Specifically I'm looking at AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice on newegg. A CPU with older stepping ADA3200BPBOX is $165 while the newer E4 stepping (CG in place of BP) ADA3200CGBOX is $175.
There's also a Winchester 3200+ for $173 with higher stock voltage than E4 venice.

Now I would think that newer revision would be better, but everything seems to be exactly the same, same 90nm die size ect. The only difference is the new stepping lock the CPU at 1.35 V and allows a maximum for 65C temp, while the older stepping let's you set VCore from 1.35 to 1.4 and allows upto 70C temp. I would guess that newer stepping would limite me in my OCing since I wouldn't be able to raise the VCore if I wanted to. What do you guys think? Which is better to get?

 

[Wentelteefje]

Originally posted by: cheap
Hello, there's a new E4 Venice stepping out and I was wondering if you guys had any information about it. Specifically I'm looking at AMD Athlon 64 3200+ Venice on newegg. A CPU with older stepping ADA3200BPBOX is $165 while the newer E4 stepping (CG in place of BP) ADA3200CGBOX is $175.
There's also a Winchester 3200+ for $173 with higher stock voltage than E4 venice.

Now I would think that newer revision would be better, but everything seems to be exactly the same, same 90nm die size ect. The only difference is the new stepping lock the CPU at 1.35 V and allows a maximum for 65C temp, while the older stepping let's you set VCore from 1.35 to 1.4 and allows upto 70C temp. I would guess that newer stepping would limite me in my OCing since I wouldn't be able to raise the VCore if I wanted to. What do you guys think? Which is better to get?

No Winchester anymore... No, you get things a bit wrong... The voltage they mention is the stock voltage, which varies between 1.35V and 1.4V on the E3 ones, and is (almost) guaranteed 1.35V on the newer ones...

The same speed at a lower voltage = higher overclocking potential... I'm not sure about it, but theoretically seen, the E4 will be about as good as the former stepping... Don't stare at the "65°C vs. 70°C", because that's a temp your VEnice shouldn't be reaching in the first place...

Seeing that the E3 still costs less, I wouldn't pick the E4... Once that one lowers in price, take it... Not much of a difference, if at all IMO...

 

[cheap]

Hmm, I thought I've read in reviews that these new steppings are VCore locked or something. Let me check them again.

 

[thecoolnessrune]

I still dont think anything will beat the early E3 Venices. Except maybe an Opteron.

 

[F1shF4t]

Originally posted by: cheap
Hmm, I thought I've read in reviews that these new steppings are VCore locked or something. Let me check them again.

I doubt they could be VCore locked as the mainboard controlls the voltage.

But yea the original E3 are nice, my one only needs a small voltage bump to hit 2.5ghz (1.425), and prolly can hit 2.7ghz.

 

[Wentelteefje]

Hmm, seems like E3 was first reserved for Venice, whereas E4 was destined for the San Diego's... Now this could be good news, as SD's are overclocking-wise even better than Venice ones... This thread over at VR-Zone shows people upping the voltage on their E4 Venice's (with one maniac even trying to fry his chip with 1.85V)...

 

[cheap]

Ok, found reviews, yes people are reporting that they are VCore locked, here you go, these are from 3500+ Venice 4 stepping CPU:

Pros: CG units are E4 stepping, w/possible changes in the memory controller, but that's just rumor. There is no observable difference in the function of a system with either one.

Cons: The maximum temperature of the E4 stepping is 65C while the E3 is 70C.

Other Thoughts: The CG part number processors are E4 stepping units specified to operate at 1.35 V only and 63C max. The BP part number units are E3 stepping specified to run at 1.35-1.4V and 70C max.

and here's another one:

Pros: I'l looking at this compared to the 3500BPBOX.

Cons: 1.35v set

Other Thoughts: The voltage on this is fixed at 1.35v. Search AMD to compare what the OPN and PIB numbers. "BPBOX" voltage is variable 1.35-1.4.

What do you guys think?

I don't want to get an opteron since it will run hot, it's got a bigger die size and runs at higher voltage. I want a fairly quiet system. Plus Opterons run at 800mhz fsb right? They seem more like budget cpus to me. Funny though that Newegg is selling a 1.6ghz opteron for more than 3200+ which runs at 2ghz I think. Must be really good overclockers.

EDIT: tnx for the link Wentelteefje, I'll check it out.

 

[Greenman]

I read somewhere, maybe even here, that the E4's are dual core duds, one core is dead and locked. Thats hearsay, so do some homework before accepting it as fact. More to the point, if you want a cpu to clock, why not use an Opteron? Same price, with a much better chance of a good overclock.

Edit: Look at the 939 Optys, not the socket 940. Same buss speed as a Venice, they don't run hotter, and some of them get mad clocks. My 146 is running at 2.7Ghz and 29C, on the stock HSF. Pleanty fast and pleanty cool.

 

[Wentelteefje]

Wow... :Q AMD can't probably stand it anymore how people buy low-clocked Venice's and Opty's and OC 'em like hell... That's truly a pity... However, the thread I linked to mentioned 1.85V... Weird situation...

The Opterons on S939 all have a 1GHz HTT (FSB)... They are still the best when you want to overclock... When you pair 'em up with a high-end cooler, your system can be quiet and cool at the same time... The dual core Opterons are quite expensive, but are the best choice IMO...

 

[BOLt]

Originally posted by: cheap
What do you guys think?

I don't want to get an opteron since it will run hot, it's got a bigger die size and runs at higher voltage. I want a fairly quiet system. Plus Opterons run at 800mhz fsb right? They seem more like budget cpus to me. Funny though that Newegg is selling a 1.6ghz opteron for more than 3200+ which runs at 2ghz I think. Must be really good overclockers.

EDIT: tnx for the link Wentelteefje, I'll check it out.

You're quite wrong. Opterons run cooler. They have the same die size (they use the 90nm manufacturing process, too), they run at the same or lower VCore as the A64s (though the motherboard controls this to some extent, as some BIOS revisions on motherboards default the VCore to different levels), the Opterons run at 1000MHz HTT, they are not budget CPUs, as they are better at overclocking, and are in fact server-grade parts that have been commercialized, and unless you're talking about the s940 Opterons, the lowest s939 Opteron is the 144 model running at 1.8Ghz stock. The s939 Opterons are basically higher-grade A64s in terms of specs if you want to think of it that way. They also have a 1MB L2 cache instead of only 512KB as on the lower end s939 A64s.

Hope this clears everything up.

 

[cheap]

Hmm, let me then double check, I might've looked at the wrong specs for Opterons.

 

[cheap]

Well, I checked it out, turns out I was looking at SledgeHammer Opterons before, but Opteron 148 looks real good. They run at same VCore and same die size with twice as much L2 cache. The only drawback is they are like 60 bucks more. I don't think extra 300mhz that I can squeeze out of it over 3200+ Venice is worth 35% price increase. What do you guys think? Does it really make that much of a difference?

Newegg doesn't list 144 for some reason, and 148 is the lowest one available, OEM is $220 shipped, while retail is $237 shipped, compared to $162 for Retail Venis 3200+. I know clock speeds are different on these, but I can get 3200+ Venice to run 2.5ghz, and people in reviews are saying they're getting their Opt 148s to run 2.8ghz, so 300mhz difference.

Appreciate your help. The good old days of Petium 1 and AMD/Cirix are gone I guess. That was pretty simple back then. Now I have to spend a whole day reading on the internet just to figure out which cpu to buy, and that's only from AMD.

 

[Greenman]

There is a thread in hot deals right now for 146's, around $170.

 

[cheap]

Tnx for information everybody. I'll definitely go with Opteron now. Seems like all 144s are gone now, so I will look for 146 with good stepping. In the hot thread only one place had 146 in stock and they don't let you know the stepping.

 

[Greenman]

Originally posted by: cheap
Tnx for information everybody. I'll definitely go with Opteron now. Seems like all 144s are gone now, so I will look for 146 with good stepping. In the hot thread only one place had 146 in stock and they don't let you know the stepping.

Almost no one tells you the stepping, you're pretty much stuck with whatever is in the channel right now.

 

[imported_Sincity]

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake

Originally posted by: cheap
Hmm, I thought I've read in reviews that these new steppings are VCore locked or something. Let me check them again.

I doubt they could be VCore locked as the mainboard controlls the voltage.

But yea the original E3 are nice, my one only needs a small voltage bump to hit 2.5ghz (1.425), and prolly can hit 2.7ghz.

Of course, YMMV depending on Mobo, memory.....My Week 50 E6 3200+ will hit 2.6 but only for 8 hrs on Prime 95 @ 1.475V. Runs steady at 2.5 @ 1.475V. And this is my first time with the A64. I guess if I play and tweak I may get a little more. I'm too afraid to bump to 1.5V

 

[Wentelteefje]

Originally posted by: Sincity

Originally posted by: Dark Cupcake

Originally posted by: cheap
Hmm, I thought I've read in reviews that these new steppings are VCore locked or something. Let me check them again.

I doubt they could be VCore locked as the mainboard controlls the voltage.

But yea the original E3 are nice, my one only needs a small voltage bump to hit 2.5ghz (1.425), and prolly can hit 2.7ghz.

Of course, YMMV depending on Mobo, memory.....My Week 50 E6 3200+ will hit 2.6 but only for 8 hrs on Prime 95 @ 1.475V. Runs steady at 2.5 @ 1.475V. And this is my first time with the A64. I guess if I play and tweak I may get a little more. I'm too afraid to bump to 1.5V

You shouldn't... That's an ecceptable voltage for AMD64...

 

[BOLt]

Originally posted by: cheap
Well, I checked it out, turns out I was looking at SledgeHammer Opterons before, but Opteron 148 looks real good. They run at same VCore and same die size with twice as much L2 cache. The only drawback is they are like 60 bucks more. I don't think extra 300mhz that I can squeeze out of it over 3200+ Venice is worth 35% price increase. What do you guys think? Does it really make that much of a difference?

Newegg doesn't list 144 for some reason, and 148 is the lowest one available, OEM is $220 shipped, while retail is $237 shipped, compared to $162 for Retail Venis 3200+. I know clock speeds are different on these, but I can get 3200+ Venice to run 2.5ghz, and people in reviews are saying they're getting their Opt 148s to run 2.8ghz, so 300mhz difference.

Appreciate your help. The good old days of Petium 1 and AMD/Cirix are gone I guess. That was pretty simple back then. Now I have to spend a whole day reading on the internet just to figure out which cpu to buy, and that's only from AMD.

Newegg just doesn't have the 144s in stock. Check pricegrabber.com, pricewatch.com, or Froogle. Yes, OC'ing makes much of a difference. Opterons are worth the money. They are the pwnsauce. They OC like no other. Get the lowest Opteron you can find and hit ~3GHz on air stock voltages while under 40C load for ~$150, and double your cache (not cash, haha) for free. Tell me that doesn't sound good. Tell me that doesn't stomp the A64s.