New debt ceiling to be hit in Feb

[woolfe9999]

You do realize that the difference in these deficits is affected by the wars, new entitlement and tax cuts put in place by Bush which are automatic spending and revenue decreases that project through to now and continue forward, and that the recession has killed the tax base? The forward projections beyond the recession also assume that nothing will be done to reduce the deficit in 2011-2012, when Obama has said he wants to reform Medicare and SS.

Statistics can always be presented in whatever way one wants to present them to support one's pre-ordained position.

- wolf

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Conservatives just want Obama to cut spending to send this economy into a tailspin so they can then blame it on Obama for political gain. Disgusting.

Wow...I'll tell you what's really disgusting...that you actually believe this.

 

[mav451]

Is there a reason 2008 is considered "Dem" on that graph?

 

[woolfe9999]

Thanks for twisting it into a partisan issue yet again. Do YOU, Specop, think it's OK to keep increasing the deficit the way Congress is doing? It's a simple question.

If you want to be non-partisan about this, and I applaud that, I think you should indicate what should be done on a go forward basis. Should there be large spending cuts right now, before the recession is over? Should the big entitlements be cut? Defense spending? Tax increases? If so, when?

I personally think all of those things need to be done, starting next year and phasing in through 2012.

If any discussion is to be non-partisan it must be in the form of constructive ideas that focus on the future.

- wolf

 

[xj0hnx]

Conservatives just want Obama to cut spending to send this economy into a tailspin so they can then blame it on Obama for political gain. Disgusting.

Yea, because the way to get out of debt is to get further into debt, fucking idiots.

 

[newnameman]

Is there a reason 2008 is considered "Dem" on that graph?

The FY2008 budget was passed by a Democratic congress.

 

[woolfe9999]

The FY2008 budget was passed by a Democratic congress.

That budget was barely larger than the 2007 budget, which had a lower deficit. More information is required to understand what really happened.

- wolf

 

[werepossum]

You do realize that the difference in these deficits is affected by the wars, new entitlement and tax cuts put in place by Bush which are automatic spending and revenue decreases that project through to now and continue forward, and that the recession has killed the tax base? The forward projections beyond the recession also assume that nothing will be done to reduce the deficit in 2011-2012, when Obama has said he wants to reform Medicare and SS.

Statistics can always be presented in whatever way one wants to present them to support one's pre-ordained position.

- wolf

You do realize that those same things were in place for the last years of the Republican Congress, right? Bush's tax cuts and drug entitlement program weren't passed to hover in mid air until Democrats took over, but rather went into affect under Republican Congresses as well. Democrat discretionary spending goes on top of the wars, tax cuts, and entitlements just as does Republican discretionary spending.

 

[PokerGuy]

Is there a reason 2008 is considered "Dem" on that graph?

Yes, because contrary to what some morons (hi Craig!) want to believe, the budget is set by congress. The dems have had control of both houses of congress since 2008.

 

[werepossum]

Yes, because contrary to what some morons (hi Craig!) want to believe, the budget is set by congress. The dems have had control of both houses of congress since 2008.

Since 2006 actually; Congress convened in 2007 with a Democrat majority.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Since 2006 actually; Congress convened in 2007 with a Democrat majority.

This. The BUT BUSH...!'ers love to conveniently ignore this fact.

 

[woolfe9999]

You do realize that those same things were in place for the last years of the Republican Congress, right? Bush's tax cuts and drug entitlement program weren't passed to hover in mid air until Democrats took over, but rather went into affect under Republican Congresses as well. Democrat discretionary spending goes on top of the wars, tax cuts, and entitlements just as does Republican discretionary spending.

Right, but what wasn't in place was to have to layer these automatic spending and revenue reduction measures on top of a severe recession which shrank the tax base.

As I said before, this discretionary spending and tax cuts are intended to be stimulatory. Much of it wasn't even discretionary but automatic spending that kicks in during a recession, such as payouts for unemployment and several other things.

What I want to know is, which aspects of spending are not recession related? For example, a new entitlement program would qualify. There aren't any. I can think of one. The troop surge in Afghanistan. Can you think of another? We really need to clearly parse out what isn't recession related here if we are to have any clarity on this.

- wolf

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

No that is what you are doing. There isn't the slightest doubt what the majority of experts advised. There is no equal division.

Seriously..."not the slightest doubt"? Bailing out the banks and AIG to avoid certain and imminent financial system collapse was one thing...but the billions and billions of dollars spent on pork (labeled and sold as 'stimulus') is quite another. The world is full of assholes who have no qualms about 'stabbing' our children and our unborn...and they come from both sides of the aisle.

Open your eyes and choose your friends wisely...lest you find yourself an unwitting accomplice in crimes against future generations.

 

[theeedude]

Wow...I'll tell you what's really disgusting...that you actually believe this.

That's how they've been acting. Where was this concern for deficits when a Republican was in the White House?

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

That's how they've been acting. Where was this concern for deficits when a Republican was in the White House?

Perhaps one shouldn't be so quick to scream hypocrisy when they happen to live in a glass house.

Deficits were increasing bad under Bush and now increasing worse under Obama. Politics aside...bottomline you have to answer the fundamental question...are these current and projected deficits a concern or not? If so, maybe then we should be debating and demanding appropriate actions from our current elected government representatives instead of playing partisan blame games. No?

 

[rudder]

rudder: There are a lot of brain-dead fucking assholes that think that there are in fact no such things as companies that are too big to fail.

M: Apparently you're one of them.

r: Failing will afford the opportunity for other companies that do things correctly a chance to expand. Ford posted a profit with out any bailouts. If GM and Chrysler cannot operate without taxpayer money... well there is always Honda, Toyota, Kia, Ford, Hyundai, VW. Same thing with banks... if they are too big to fail ..let them and let a smaller bank expand into those vacated markets.

M: Before or after the depression. Let me emphasize the the experts said the collapse of these industries would have been a catastrophe and then there is idiot you who says differently. Who the fuck cares what you think?

r: Now, what to call these people who have their head so far up obamas ass they cant see past the wagyu steak in his belly. Hell that does not make sense... but it is intended for moonbeam so maybe he can figure it out.

M: Only a moron ignores the wisdom of the experts in a crunch situation. Too much is at stake to listen to fools who are out of the mainstream opinion.

It makes no fucking difference whether you are right or wrong, you HAVE to follow the advise of the pros. That's what intelligent people do.

You are a fucking hair brained idiot if you think world leaders or the Pres of the US is going to go off on some minority held point of view when the countries economic future is at stake. Try to fucking grow up, OK you egotistical little fuck. People's fucking lives ride on these matters.

You are a fucking hair brained idiot to think obama won't pursue some minority point of view. obama is an activist... the american people do not want his interpretation of healthcare reform... but hell if that stops him.

And you are also a hair brained idiot to think that the experts 'advising' obama are the only reputable experts in their field.

get your head out of his ass.

 

[nick1985]

Perhaps one shouldn't be so quick to scream hypocrisy when they happen to live in a glass house.

Deficits were increasing bad under Bush and now increasing worse under Obama. Politics aside...bottomline you have to answer the fundamental question...are these current and projected deficits a concern or not? If so, maybe then we should be debating and demanding appropriate actions from our current elected government representatives instead of playing partisan blame games. No?

Good post

 

[xj0hnx]

Perhaps one shouldn't be so quick to scream hypocrisy when they happen to live in a glass house.

Deficits were increasing bad under Bush and now increasing worse under Obama. Politics aside...bottomline you have to answer the fundamental question...are these current and projected deficits a concern or not? If so, maybe then we should be debating and demanding appropriate actions from our current elected government representatives instead of playing partisan blame games. No?

Of course not, partisan blame games are the grease that keeps the machinery moving.

 

[theeedude]

Perhaps one shouldn't be so quick to scream hypocrisy when they happen to live in a glass house.

Deficits were increasing bad under Bush and now increasing worse under Obama. Politics aside...bottomline you have to answer the fundamental question...are these current and projected deficits a concern or not? If so, maybe then we should be debating and demanding appropriate actions from our current elected government representatives instead of playing partisan blame games. No?

Sure, if you are living in a vacuum and history started when Obama took over. But Obama needs to run deficits to fix damage that he inherited. To become fiscally austere now would be economic suicide for this country.

 

[nick1985]

But Obama needs to run deficits to fix damage that he inherited.

If you think he has fixed anything you are out of your damn mind

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Sure, if you are living in a vacuum and history started when Obama took over. But Obama needs to run deficits to fix damage that he inherited. To become fiscally austere now would be economic suicide for this country.

I don't know what to say except that I'm sitting here struck by feelings of sadness.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are a fucking hair brained idiot to think obama won't pursue some minority point of view. obama is an activist... the american people do not want his interpretation of healthcare reform... but hell if that stops him.

And you are also a hair brained idiot to think that the experts 'advising' obama are the only reputable experts in their field.

get your head out of his ass.

Hey shit head, he went with the consensus opinion, and not with your fucking imagined revolutionary drivel.

 

[Moonbeam]

Seriously..."not the slightest doubt"? Bailing out the banks and AIG to avoid certain and imminent financial system collapse was one thing...but the billions and billions of dollars spent on pork (labeled and sold as 'stimulus') is quite another. The world is full of assholes who have no qualms about 'stabbing' our children and our unborn...and they come from both sides of the aisle.

Open your eyes and choose your friends wisely...lest you find yourself an unwitting accomplice in crimes against future generations.

Doy! Can you read? We are only talking about the one thing, government stimulus when the economy tanks. The wisdom of how to spend the money is a totally different question. The consensus was that government stimulus was necessary to avoid disaster. And that is still the consensus opinion among the economic community.

 

[Patranus]

But Obama needs to run deficits to fix damage that he inherited.

Borrow and spend to spur borrowing and spending to solve the problems brought on by too much borrowing and spending.

Sure sounds like a rational plan to me....

 

[theeedude]

If you think he has fixed anything you are out of your damn mind

You are in denial or have no clue if you don't realize it would have been a lot worse without this deficit spending. If anything he's not spending enough.