New death penalty cocktail. Seems effective.

[WelshBloke]

The problem is that any source outside of the US is highly restricted, because these countries do not condone the death penalty, and will not allow export because they know it will be used for putting people to death.

I think that we will export it, we'll just stop if there's any danger of it being used for executions. You can still import it for anaesthesia.

But yeah your point still stands.

 

[Viper GTS]

Anybody who is still pro death penalty after seeing what's come out of Dallas county in the last decade is probably not worth arguing with.

Capital punishment is one of those things that's great in theory, but impossible to apply in reality. Most will agree that some crimes deserve more than life in prison but the remotest possibility of executing an innocent should terrify any thinking person.

Given the sheer numbers it's almost impossible to believe that it hasn't already happened. This one in particular is as good a candidate as any for a likely innocent death:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?yrail

Maybe some good will come of this botched execution. By all accounts he probably wasn't innocent, but the state shouldn't be in the business of executing people anyway and demonstrated incompetence might be good enough to put a stop to it for a while.

Viper GTS <= Former supporter of the death penalty

 

[Victorian Gray]

You do realize that the founders of this country, including the ones that wrote this amendment, didn't have a problem with hanging and shooting.

Hey, it's *your* constitution. If you wish to ignore it, go right ahead.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Umm, because they belong to the group previously labeled 'zealots'?

For real?!

The pharmaceutical companies and their share holders are 'zealots'?! That's certainly an interesting take on the situation (if meant seriously). It's also absurd (if meant seriously).

 

[Victorian Gray]

Accept the fact that the courts are run by humans and therefore wont be perfect? What is the percentage of falsely convicted felons who would be subject to the death penalty? I'm betting it is infinitesimal.

If it's one it's too many.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/

 

[Victorian Gray]

No, I'm better because I don't kill/rape innocent people. I dont' give a #$# if murderers and rapists suffer.

Then you really aren't any better.

 

[Victorian Gray]

It would suck, and I would wish the court system was more accurate, but expending massive amounts of money to house the actually guilty so we dont accidentally get an innocent is a waste of resources. Instead of spending all that money to house felons, how about we roll it into research for better forensic tools and methods to reduce the false positive rate?

So, basically, you're ok with the 'State' (which means *you*) committing murder by executing an innocent person. Cool, good to know.

 

[Oldgamer]

Anybody who is still pro death penalty after seeing what's come out of Dallas county in the last decade is probably not worth arguing with.

Capital punishment is one of those things that's great in theory, but impossible to apply in reality. Most will agree that some crimes deserve more than life in prison but the remotest possibility of executing an innocent should terrify any thinking person.

Given the sheer numbers it's almost impossible to believe that it hasn't already happened. This one in particular is as good a candidate as any for a likely innocent death:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?yrail

Maybe some good will come of this botched execution. By all accounts he probably wasn't innocent, but the state shouldn't be in the business of executing people anyway and demonstrated incompetence might be good enough to put a stop to it for a while.

Viper GTS <= Former supporter of the death penalty

Yea I am on the fence on this, but I have to admit if it were one of my family I would want retribution in some form. I guess that would be a normal human reaction if something happened to you or yours.

But really all the death penalty does is bring us down to the criminals level. It makes us no better than the murderer.

Your right, there are far too many innocents in the prison system and on death row, it is scary to think how many innocent people have been killed by the death penalty.

 

[Ns1]

Then you really aren't any better.

We'll have to agree to disagree, since I have yet to murder or rape any innocent people.

<insert gif here>
Enjoy it when murderers suffer?

YOU'RE BASICALLY A MURDERER TOO
</insert gif here>

 

[zinfamous]

Anybody who is still pro death penalty after seeing what's come out of Dallas county in the last decade is probably not worth arguing with.

Capital punishment is one of those things that's great in theory, but impossible to apply in reality. Most will agree that some crimes deserve more than life in prison but the remotest possibility of executing an innocent should terrify any thinking person.

Given the sheer numbers it's almost impossible to believe that it hasn't already happened. This one in particular is as good a candidate as any for a likely innocent death:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann?yrail

Maybe some good will come of this botched execution. By all accounts he probably wasn't innocent, but the state shouldn't be in the business of executing people anyway and demonstrated incompetence might be good enough to put a stop to it for a while.

Viper GTS <= Former supporter of the death penalty

Aye, that's the thing. I am not anti-death penalty because I believe it makes us equal to murderers, that it brings us down to a criminal's level, that it makes us no better--whatever. Thing is, I do tend to support that argument, but I also understand that there is just some type of wickedness out there that no longer deserves life, and forfeits that life due to certain choices that they make.

I am not certain that there is no need for revenge in me, so I can't honestly argue that I don't feel that way.

However, I am 100% against the death penalty for the very real reason that no state-sanctioned murder can ever be 100% fool-proof. We have absolutely killed innocents, and we will absolutely continue to kill innocents as long as it stands. It should have stopped with the first wrongful death.

 

[BUnit1701]

So, basically, you're ok with the 'State' (which means *you*) committing murder by executing an innocent person. Cool, good to know.

I would more say that I find that preferable to keeping worthless human beings alive in relative comfort at great expense. As I said, I am all in favor of taking every possible step to make sure we dont have false positives, but their existence should not invalidate death penalties.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I always thought it was so weird Americans won't trust their government to do anything except holding the power to execute them

 

[Angry Irishman]

You realize that one of the big reasons the appeals process and all is so lengthy is that we keep finding out that people sentenced to death weren't guilty after all, right?



I would say that's not necessary either. Regardless, it certainly isn't an excuse of state sanctioned murder.



I'm genuinely sorry to hear that you had to go through that, it sounds awful. I don't think that personal feelings after a tragedy are a good basis for public policy though.

So if no death penalty and no rough life in prison where is the punishment for such terrible acts of violence?

 

[TerryMathews]

I always thought it was so weird Americans won't trust their government to do anything except holding the power to execute them

The thought process is, the government doesn't execute them the jury of their peers does.

 

[zinfamous]

The thought process is, the government doesn't execute them the jury of their peers does.

True, but the government still grants, or does not grant that power. It is not legal in some states, so it is still a government power.

The people also do not decide if someone should be tried against the death penalty.

And any governor has the power to rescind the decision made by the people.

 

[Rakehellion]

This. I am not a medical expert, but I would be willing to lay down cash that no one has ever survived 8 rifle rounds to the head long enough to suffer.

It's to the heart, and sometimes all of the executioners miss.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I would more say that I find that preferable to keeping worthless human beings alive in relative comfort at great expense. As I said, I am all in favor of taking every possible step to make sure we dont have false positives, but their existence should not invalidate death penalties.

Then you are condoning murder.

 

[Victorian Gray]

So if no death penalty and no rough life in prison where is the punishment for such terrible acts of violence?

You don't think that life in prison is 'rough'? Seriously?

 

[zinfamous]

For a bunch of people that tend to spout the glories of "freedom" being the sum total of human desire, it's funny to see them turn face and argue that life in prison is "a pretty sweet deal."

 

[Oldgamer]

I always thought it was so weird Americans won't trust their government to do anything except holding the power to execute them

Haha.. may I use this in my sig line? This is great...love it. Good question!

 

[Drako]

Then you are condoning murder.

Executing someone legally is not by definition, murder. :hmm:

 

[Oldgamer]

It's to the heart, and sometimes all of the executioners miss.

I thought they aimed for the heart and the head?

 

[zinfamous]

I thought they aimed for the heart and the head?

nope. you never aim at the head.

 

[TridenT]

It's to the heart, and sometimes all of the executioners miss.

This, and I think not all of the executioners get a real bullet either. So, that lowers the amount of bullets. Some get a blank instead. So, they hear it go off and feel some kick but only some of the actual executioners hit. (It's so they never know who actually killed the person)

 

[Orignal Earl]

Haha.. may I use this in my sig line? This is great...love it. Good question!

Have at it, I thought that up like a year ago in a thread here, it may be orignal