yah, pick up some polyester pants & an AGP card while you're at it.
jk jkj jk, but the crt did go the way of the dinos & dodo.
yah, pick up some polyester pants & an AGP card while you're at it.
jk jkj jk, but the crt did go the way of the dinos & dodo.
Since it's "in my opinion" (IMO) I am not wrong for my own tastes. I have a Samsung 205bw and its plays every game I have flawlessly. I never have any motion blur as another poster (cp5670) stated. I am also not stuck at the native resolution. With my graphics card I have 12 different resolutions options to choose from. If the OP wants a bulky 50 pound CRT go for it. I agree with Jared's statement except I'd go with some denim bell bottoms a tie die shirt and a PCI card.
The days of the CRT have been gone for a couple years now. CRT's are impractical, bulky, and small. It's so much more fun to immerse yourself in a game world with a big ol' widescreen LCD.
If CRT level image quality is what you are pining for when looking at an LCD, it's likely you're not having any fun playing your games anyway.
If CRT level image quality is what you are pining for when looking at an LCD, it's likely you're not having any fun playing your games anyway.
I think it's clear that you aren't very particular about image quality at all, if you can't notice any effects from upscaling non-native resolutions. Which is perfectly fine, but it doesn't make any sense in the context of your earlier post.
And almost any current sound card or TV tuner runs on PCI.
It depends on which properties of displays you value more. I could just as well say that it's "so much more fun" to have that liquid smooth 120fps motion, and that if a bigger screen is what you want, you're not having any fun playing games.
that makes no sense...of course I'm looking for the highest quality image I can get...why would I enjoy taking a step down in PQ??...so you're having fun playing Crysis with poor image reproduction, high input lag and ghosting...hey if that's your idea of fun then go for it
I am very particular. The image quality of my LCD is far beyond any of the CRTs I had. The colors are much brighter and more vibrant on my LCD. Most of the games I play do have color and not a screen full of black. I don't know what the OP will do with his monitor so maybe if he is a graphics designer then it would be better I don't know. But for games I think your argument is outdated. I sometimes game in resolutions other than the defualt. I still don't see any "effects" you mention. If I had a better graphics card I could probably play the new games in high quality at the native res with more fps. Maybe there's some magical great CRT out there with super image quality but I don't see them for sale. If CRTs were so much better they would still be for sale at most e/retail stores in abundance. I think the OP is just nitpicking and should get with the times. Other wise it looks like he will have to settle with a refurbished, discontinued or new-overstock. I love the "new-overstock." There's probably a reason they are overstocked. NO ONE WANTS ONE. I am also very particular about the look and feel of my desk. I gained 2 square feet of desk space when I switched to my LCD. By PCI card I meant graphics card. Guess I should have been more specific. Some new sound and TV cards come in PCIe x1 now too.
Oh yeah not to mention the fact that most (if not all I'm not totaly sure) LCDs are HDCP compliant. Are there any CRTs that are?
I think not. It's well known that running a non-native resolution, especially one that is significantly below the native, results in a muddy, blurred image on any LCD, and it is an inherent limitation of fixed pixel displays due to the way they interpolate data when upscaling. There is a good reason why most gamers take their video card into account when deciding what LCD to buy. You need to be able to run games at that native resolution to get the best out of the monitor.
If you play FPSs, the majority of such games from the last four years or so use a relatively dark color palette. Not necessarily pure black, but a lot of colors in the 0-64 RGB range, which is what LCDs have trouble with.
As for the brightness, the final generation of AG CRT tubes had a much higher brightness level than the previous ones and are comparable to LCDs, without compromising on the black levels.
By that logic, TN LCDs must be far superior to IPS and VA ones.
The reason they are no longer available is that average buyers don't care much about image quality, and there aren't enough buyers who are willing to pay higher prices for them to justify producing them anymore.Actually, these overstock models are typically from businesses that bought them in large quantities and ordered a few more than they needed to minimize downtime in case one of them broke down.
That I can understand. I have a sufficiently large desk that I don't need to worry about it, but any CRT would indeed be impractical in areas where space is limited.
Some LCDs do at this point, but many don't. It started becoming common only last year or so. No CRTs do as they are all analog, and the specification requires a digital link. Of course, for the purposes of gaming, HDCP is totally irrelevant.
What I meant is that being overly nit-picky about the small differences between the two misses the point.
The point is the GAME. The game is supposed to suck you into a fantasy world. All I'm saying is I prefer playing on an enormous widescreen LCD at high resolution rather than a 18-20" (viewable) 4:3 screen that looks a little better.
High input lag and ghosting was a big problem with LCD's of the past, but technology has come a long way. Granted, the depth of color of an LCD is still probably inferior to CRT's, but it's gotten a lot better on the nicer panels. Either way, you're gonna get what you pay for. Bottom line: Cheap panels will have inferior IQ.
I say if you want great image quality, spend some money and buy a great LCD. I think 99% of us would ultimately regret a CRT purchase... the big, ugly dinosaur of the past. Ya got tubes plugged into your motherboard too? :shocked:
Originally posted by: Deville
What I meant is that being overly nit-picky about the small differences between the two misses the point.
The point is the GAME. The game is supposed to suck you into a fantasy world. All I'm saying is I prefer playing on an enormous widescreen LCD at high resolution rather than a 18-20" (viewable) 4:3 screen that looks a little better.
High input lag and ghosting was a big problem with LCD's of the past, but technology has come a long way. Granted, the depth of color of an LCD is still probably inferior to CRT's, but it's gotten a lot better on the nicer panels. Either way, you're gonna get what you pay for. Bottom line: Cheap panels will have inferior IQ.
I say if you want great image quality, spend some money and buy a great LCD. I think 99% of us would ultimately regret a CRT purchase... the big, ugly dinosaur of the past. Ya got tubes plugged into your motherboard too? :shocked:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
No answer is right. When your spending 400+ dollars on a CRT monitor or LCD panel the only right choice is the one you want.
You DONT need to keep making wise cracks. Why did you choose a AMD 6000+? Because you wanted to right? I am sure alot of people can find things wrong or "behind the times" with your processor.
Going from a expensive LCD back to a CRT would garner your comments more than going from a CRT to a better CRT.
Some of us who still use CRT's are trying to break into the Digital Media world and the image quality does help when we are grabbing at straws. I would love to afford a 1200 dollar LCD that would put my CRT's to shame, but I CANT yet. I wont buy some cheap 400 dollar LCD, because its not up to my expectations nor meets all of my base standards.
Originally posted by: CP5670
I think not. It's well known that running a non-native resolution, especially one that is significantly below the native, results in a muddy, blurred image on any LCD, and it is an inherent limitation of fixed pixel displays due to the way they interpolate data when upscaling. There is a good reason why most gamers take their video card into account when deciding what LCD to buy. You need to be able to run games at that native resolution to get the best out of the monitor.
If you play FPSs, the majority of such games from the last four years or so use a relatively dark color palette. Not necessarily pure black, but a lot of colors in the 0-64 RGB range, which is what LCDs have trouble with.
As for the brightness, the final generation of AG CRT tubes had a much higher brightness level than the previous ones and are comparable to LCDs, without compromising on the black levels.
By that logic, TN LCDs must be far superior to IPS and VA ones.
Actually, these overstock models are typically from businesses that bought them in large quantities and ordered a few more than they needed to minimize downtime in case one of them broke down.
That I can understand. I have a sufficiently large desk that I don't need to worry about it, but any CRT would indeed be impractical in areas where space is limited.
Some LCDs do at this point, but many don't. It started becoming common only last year or so. No CRTs do as they are all analog, and the specification requires a digital link. Of course, for the purposes of gaming, HDCP is totally irrelevant.
You just want to argue. Don't try to tell me how games on my LCD look. They look GREAT. They don't look muddy or blurred regardless of the res. If he wants to waste $300+ on a 21" CRT so be it. Were we talking just about gaming? Someone mentioned graphic design so I mentioned HD capability. When I mentioned HDCP and CRTs I was being sarcastic. I know no CRTs are. Does that mean there will never be HD games for the PC though?
Perhaps to you. This is something that even many LCD users will disagree with.
It's great that you are satisfied with your LCD, but if you're going to be saying that it has better image quality than any CRT and in the same breath claiming nonsense like non-native resolutions looking the same as the native one, expect to be called out on it.
What are you talking about? HDCP is an encryption system used on commercially sold movies and has nothing to do with "HD capability," by which I'm assuming you just mean support for certain resolutions.
I bought a Philips 18 months ago, not as many choices now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...0019&SpeTabStoreType=1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...0019&SpeTabStoreType=1
Deinonych
Senior member
- Apr 26, 2003
- 633
- 0
- 76
There is no perfect display; any display will have compromises. You just have to decide what you are willing to live with. CRTs have no lag, great blacks and accurate color, but they also have geometry issues and a large footprint. LCDs are pretty much the opposite -- small footprint & perfect geometry, but with input lag, poor blacks and less than accurate color. I understand the attraction to CRTs -- it was hard for me to move away from mine (an NEC FE1250+). But, I personally would never go back. It's just too impractical. I have my LCD on an arm, so it is completely off my desk. And, I can move it to any position with ease. It's not as smooth with games as my CRT, but I love the flexibility.
We'll just have to live with LCD's shortcomings until SED makes it to market.
We'll just have to live with LCD's shortcomings until SED makes it to market.
Hey, for once I actually agree with Rollo...
I used to be a hardcore proponent of CRT's, and I still believe they have the best color depth. But a few months ago I switched from a CRT to a 27" LCD, and none of the disadvantages of LCD technology have made me regret that move. Yes, LCD's have ghosting and the dark colors aren't as deep. But in a high quality LCD these issues aren't noticeable once you start using the monitor for things like gaming, watching movies, and photo editing. In fact, the extra big screen makes the user experience more immersive and enjoyable, not to mention all the extra room you now have on your desk, and you start to wonder why you haven't made the switch sooner.
Originally posted by: Deinonych
There is no perfect display; any display will have compromises. You just have to decide what you are willing to live with. CRTs have no lag, great blacks and accurate color, but they also have geometry issues and a large footprint. LCDs are pretty much the opposite -- small footprint & perfect geometry, but with input lag, poor blacks and less than accurate color. I understand the attraction to CRTs -- it was hard for me to move away from mine (an NEC FE1250+). But, I personally would never go back. It's just too impractical. I have my LCD on an arm, so it is completely off my desk. And, I can move it to any position with ease. It's not as smooth with games as my CRT, but I love the flexibility.
We'll just have to live with LCD's shortcomings until SED makes it to market.
Unfortunately, the SED tech has been indefinitely put on hold and is mired in a patent war. It may never come out on retail displays at all.
It looks like OLED is the best candidate to take over from everything else, although they say that mass manufacturing won't begin until 2010.CRTs can actually have perfect geometry. It's just that a lot of units being sold now have minor defects and look distorted somewhere. I would say their biggest shortcoming (apart from availability) is their sizes. The FW900 is the largest one at 22.5", and 4:3 models like mine cap out at 20". You can get LCDs much larger than that now, and there is something to be said for having a large screen to look at.
Actually, in that respect, a projector would be the ideal solution. I've always wanted to get one some day, although the better ones seem to be extremely pricey compared to normal monitors or TVs.
I aim to please.
NEC FE1250+ 22" CRT just landed on my gaming desk, alongside a small NEC LCD, and a Dell 21" Trinitron.
Pros(?):
- This room was warm all winter, with the heat turned off.
- Built in anti-theft system, 70 lb CRT monitors.
For me, a quality CRT is still the king.
- I appreciate a screen that looks good at varying resolutions.
- Cost. Freakin sweet NEC FE1250+ 22" CRT was $25. Dell Trinitron 21" was $10.
Good deals keep the cost down on the 7 player home gaming lan.
Most folks never had a good CRT. Most CRT's are poor. Mediocre models from day one, or they developed issues. And sadly, some quality name brands became lower quality late model products (NEC Multisync).
my Sony GDM-F520 is a 21' CRT and uses a 4:3 aspect...the GDM-F520 is pretty much known as the finest CRT monitor ever created and was rated as having the best aperture grill...its even better then the FW900...that's why I'm so hesitant to give up on it and get a lower grade LCD or even a lower grade CRT
Here you go.
Used to have one of these in College. It worked pretty well with my SPARC II. (The computer lab was upgrading and I ended up with that system for free.)
Used to have one of these in College. It worked pretty well with my SPARC II. (The computer lab was upgrading and I ended up with that system for free.)
Well, the F520 has a very tight grill pitch, probably the best out there, but it uses an older generation tube that lacks the extended brightness capabilities of some of the final CRTs.
The 21" and 22" CRTs are all actually 20". The internal size of the tube is a bit larger than the actual viewable area on a CRT, which is what they used to advertise.
But yeah, I also see no reason to switch when you already have something good. You can get a bigger screen, but you have to compromise on a lot of other things for it. For me, it's too much of a downgrade to even consider. I'll probably keep using mine until OLED displays come out in another two years.
Not sure what exact model that is, but there were a couple of Sun branded 21" Trinitrons, of seemingly highly variable quality. I used a Sun 5410 at an internship a few years ago and it was probably the worst monitor I've ever seen, with all kinds of strange issues with focus, color uniformity and so on. I tried fiddling with the settings for a while but eventually gave up on it. The fact that the guy next to me had a 5510, which was miles better, didn't help matters.
It's the X7146A model. Can't see if that is the Sony model or not.
If you live in New York, this looks like a good deal: Sony GDM5410 model 21" monitor for $75
Also, my MAG is by far the best monitor I have ever used. It has a beautiful picture that survived many movess without losing any of the color (unlike other CRT monitors I have had), and I have always run it at 100Hz. Much better than any of the ViewSonics that most of my friends got around that time; of course it was much more expensive too. I'll look up the model number when I get home to see what it is, but I think it is the 971.
If you live in New York, this looks like a good deal: Sony GDM5410 model 21" monitor for $75
Also, my MAG is by far the best monitor I have ever used. It has a beautiful picture that survived many movess without losing any of the color (unlike other CRT monitors I have had), and I have always run it at 100Hz. Much better than any of the ViewSonics that most of my friends got around that time; of course it was much more expensive too. I'll look up the model number when I get home to see what it is, but I think it is the 971.
Yeah, that's the one I used (the Sun one). It was a complete POS in every way, but I think I had a particularly bad unit and most of them probably aren't quite as bad. At least, I hope not.
NickelPlate
Senior member
- Nov 9, 2006
- 652
- 13
- 81
I just went down this road less than a year ago.
I'm afraid friend that if you want a Sony or Trinitron monitor, you're going to have to find a used one. They can still be had if you check ebay, craig's list and the like. Tiger direct also occasionally has refurbished Dell branded Trinitrons. I still have a 10 year old 19" Sony humming along that I will never give up for any LCD and just recently bought another used Trinitron in really good condition that I'm keeping squirreled away.
I've tried several LCDs (good ones too) and took them all back to the store. They look great at their native resolution and they're great for work. Color reproduction is really good and text is generally sharper. But I don't like the viewing angle issues that they all have to varying degrees and I've yet to see an LCD that scales worth spit and doesn't look like crap at non-native resolutions.
Why is this important? Keep in mind as your video card ages, you'll be forced to play newer games at lower non-native resolutions. If you can stomach the blurry and blocky image quality that comes as a result then go for it. Otherwise CRTs have far greater flexibility in terms of available resolutions and refresh rates. I'm hoping the OLED display technology will overcome LCD limitations but I guess time will tell. Keep looking, good luck
NP
I'm afraid friend that if you want a Sony or Trinitron monitor, you're going to have to find a used one. They can still be had if you check ebay, craig's list and the like. Tiger direct also occasionally has refurbished Dell branded Trinitrons. I still have a 10 year old 19" Sony humming along that I will never give up for any LCD and just recently bought another used Trinitron in really good condition that I'm keeping squirreled away.
I've tried several LCDs (good ones too) and took them all back to the store. They look great at their native resolution and they're great for work. Color reproduction is really good and text is generally sharper. But I don't like the viewing angle issues that they all have to varying degrees and I've yet to see an LCD that scales worth spit and doesn't look like crap at non-native resolutions.
Why is this important? Keep in mind as your video card ages, you'll be forced to play newer games at lower non-native resolutions. If you can stomach the blurry and blocky image quality that comes as a result then go for it. Otherwise CRTs have far greater flexibility in terms of available resolutions and refresh rates. I'm hoping the OLED display technology will overcome LCD limitations but I guess time will tell. Keep looking, good luck
NP
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