New CPU, Phenom II or Core i7

[octopus41092]

Currently Specs:
ASUS M2N-E SLI
AMD X2 6000+
4GB DDR2 800 RAM G.Skill Pi Black
ASUS HD4850 512MB

I'm looking to upgrade my CPU as I feel it's limiting me in some of the newer games. With the new Phenom II's I was thinking of upgrading.

Should I get the Phenom 940 now or should I wait until later for the AM3 model? Either way I'll have to get a new motherboard since mine doesn't support them. If I get the new motherboard should I get DDR3 RAM?

I'm not going to overclock at first but later on when I get liquid cooling I'll be overclocking as much as possible.

I'm looking to spend maybe $300 on the CPU and Mobo in a month or two. I don't know intel CPU's very well so any other recommendations, intel counter-parts?

 

[TurtleCrusher]

Already have an AM2+ socket? P2 all the way. They will perform essentially the same in single-card setups. CF and SLI is where i7 dominates the P2.

 

[octopus41092]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Already have an AM2+ socket? P2 all the way. They will perform essentially the same in single-card setups. CF and SLI is where i7 dominates the P2.

It's not AM2+ so I would need a new motherboard. What is the actual performance difference between AM3 and AM2+ though and is getting DDR3 RAM really necessary/beneficial?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: Scholzpdx
Already have an AM2+ socket? P2 all the way. They will perform essentially the same in single-card setups. CF and SLI is where i7 dominates the P2.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3506&p=1

i7 overclocked is certainly the best, but generally I'd say the PhII is actually quite competitive with CF/SLI.

OP, since you have to get a new motherboard it's really a question of cost for ther performance you get. An i7 board will cost more, but you'll likely get more performance. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: octopus41092
I'm looking to spend maybe $300 on the CPU and Mobo in a month or two.

That being said, since that's an unrealistic price-point for a Core i7 + motherboard, sounds like you'll be going with the Phenom II. Keep in mind with Core i7 you'll also be spending obscene amounts of money on new RAM as well, whereas if you go with an AM2+ board you can reuse your current RAM if you so desire.

Now, to ask the right questions:

- What is your typically application usage? (Games? Photo editing? Video work? Basic internet browsing?)

 

[octopus41092]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: octopus41092
I'm looking to spend maybe $300 on the CPU and Mobo in a month or two.

That being said, since that's an unrealistic price-point for a Core i7 + motherboard, sounds like you'll be going with the Phenom II. Keep in mind with Core i7 you'll also be spending obscene amounts of money on new RAM as well, whereas if you go with an AM2+ board you can reuse your current RAM if you so desire.

Now, to ask the right questions:

- What is your typically application usage? (Games? Photo editing? Video work? Basic internet browsing?)

The majority of application usage is gaming. I do some video and photo editing as well as 3D modeling type work. So basically at that price point i7 is out of the question? I'm thinking if theres new things coming out in a month or two the older model might drop in price.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: octopus41092

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: octopus41092
I'm looking to spend maybe $300 on the CPU and Mobo in a month or two.

That being said, since that's an unrealistic price-point for a Core i7 + motherboard, sounds like you'll be going with the Phenom II. Keep in mind with Core i7 you'll also be spending obscene amounts of money on new RAM as well, whereas if you go with an AM2+ board you can reuse your current RAM if you so desire.

Now, to ask the right questions:

- What is your typically application usage? (Games? Photo editing? Video work? Basic internet browsing?)

The majority of application usage is gaming. I do some video and photo editing as well as 3D modeling type work. So basically at that price point i7 is out of the question? I'm thinking if theres new things coming out in a month or two the older model might drop in price.

If you do video, photo and 3D on a regular basis then the Core i7 is far an away "the better choice" (it is significantly faster in these app categories).

With that said though, the Phenom II is definitely a solid performer. It will be faster in pretty much all those app categories than your current CPU, though not as fast as the i7 would be. For gaming, the i7 is faster, but you also have to ask yourself what "fast enough" is. If you're comfortable with the way your games perform right now, then tack on a little bit of speed (10-20%) and you get the Phenom II. The i7 isn't going to be oodles better at gaming, but it will still be a better performer overall.

The catch becomes price. Are you prepared to drop $250+ on a new CPU, ~$200 on a new motherboard, and at least $110 on new RAM (i7)? If not, then you can get away with ~$200 for a new CPU and quite possibly <$100 on a motherboard for a Phenom II.

 

[octopus41092]

So... what's the performance difference between an overclocked Phenom II 940 to whatever you can get on water cooling vs a Stock Core i7 with DDR3 RAM.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: octopus41092
So... what's the performance difference between an overclocked Phenom II 940 to whatever you can get on water cooling vs a Stock Core i7 with DDR3 RAM.

Hard to say, because i7 is a new architecture - one of the reasons why sometimes a C2D/C2Q can catch it. There are some occasions when a PhII 940 @ 4 ghz would be able to match an i7 920. Other times, though, the i7's IPC advantage would be too great. And once you OC the i7...

 

[Denithor]

i7 920 + EX58-U3R + 6GB DDR3-1333 combo $530 - $30MIR (sixth combo on page)

Prices are falling rapidly.

In a few months these parts may be within your reach.

And consider this - the PhII 940 @ 3GHz cannot match the i7 920 @ 2.66GHz in any application I've yet seen (and I've looked at lots of benchmarks). So pushing the PhII to say 4GHz and the i7 920 to around 3.6GHz - the i7 is still going to win.

 

[Rick James]

Had a Phenom 2 X4 @ 3.8Ghz and then dumped it for a 4.75ghz E8500. LOVE the Intel so upgraded to a 4Ghz I7. LOVE it even more. The Phenom 2 is a great chip but its lack of L2 cache make it lag behind the Intel's.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: Rick James
Had a Phenom 2 X4 @ 3.8Ghz and then dumped it for a 4.75ghz E8500. LOVE the Intel so upgraded to a 4Ghz I7. LOVE it even more. The Phenom 2 is a great chip but its lack of L2 cache make it lag behind the Intel's.

Not really. At same price point, PhII >= C2D/Q, overall. PhII's problem is that it can't catch Q9650/i7, and that's not because of the amount of cache.

Not saying more cache wouldn't help, but Intel's CPU design is simply better.

 

[Jacen]

Like many others have mentioned it really comes down to cost. The Phenom is a solid value and it wont cost you and arm and a leg to upgrade system wide if you go I7. The I7 has a higher top end so I guess it really depends on your budget.

 

[Rick James]

Originally posted by: Jacen
Like many others have mentioned it really comes down to cost. The Phenom is a solid value and it wont cost you and arm and a leg to upgrade system wide if you go I7. The I7 has a higher top end so I guess it really depends on your budget.

So true.

I7 920 - 290
I7 Mobo - 210
DDR 3 1600 - 150

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: octopus41092
.... should I get DDR3 RAM?

I'm not going to overclock at first but later on when I get liquid cooling I'll be overclocking as much as possible.

I'm looking to spend maybe $300 on the CPU and Mobo in a month or two.....

Limited boost with DDR3 at this time - you have 4Gb DDR2 800MHz Use it. The only question from the AMD side should be whether to snag an AM3 proc. I vote ""no"" thinking that future AM3 CPUs will be faster and less expensive (and hoping they will still be 'drop-ins' on AM2+ motherboards).

Either jump now or come back and ask this question again. It seems to me the suupah combo deals are slipping by the wayside. No one can say whether they are going, going, gone or what the future may hold. That said ...

Phenom II 940 / Foxconn 790GX combo deal: $324 ($304 AR)

And you may be tempted by the Foxconn 790FX combo deal but man is that mobo oogly ...

 

[Denithor]

It really just comes down to cost. Like I linked above, you can get an i7 + mobo + DDR3 for $500AR or you can get a PhII + mobo for $300 (reuse your ram).

Is the higher performance worth 66% higher cost? That's entirely up to you to decide, based on your personal wants/needs.

 

[Elfear]

You could even grab an i7 920 from Microcenter (if they are still on sale) for ~$245 with tax. With Ewiz's Gigabyte U3R and ST 6GB deal, you could pick up the mobo, cpu, and ram for ~$460.

If you sold your ram for $20-30, the difference between a PII and an i7 would only be around $130-140. Still a bit of a difference but not nearly what it was a few weeks ago.

 

[OCedHrt]

If considering a P2, I would go for a X3 720 at $120. The X4 isn't going to benefit you much in most games.

 

[taltamir]

P2 is slightly slower per mhz than a core2quad... there is no point in even trying to compare it to an i7

just check prices, it seems to me that the p2 is slightly more expensive (5$) than an equivalent C2Q. And takes more electricity.

But it has better mobo chipsets and if you already have a compatible mobo then it is certainly cheaper as an upgrade.

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: taltamir
P2 is slightly slower per mhz than a core2quad... there is no point in even trying to compare it to an i7

just check prices, it seems to me that the p2 is slightly more expensive (5$) than an equivalent C2Q. And takes more electricity.

But it has better mobo chipsets and if you already have a compatible mobo then it is certainly cheaper as an upgrade.

Depends where you look. According to AT's PhII review, C2Q uses more electricity overall than the equivalent PhII. TR reports the inverse. It's probably a wash in the long run.

 

[Denithor]

And if you want the lowest power consumption, go i7.

Photoshop CS4 Retouch Artists

While the Core i7-920 draws as much as 6% more power than the Q9550S, it also completes the benchmark in nearly 14% less time. If you want the best performance per watt, skip the Core 2 Quad Q9550S and buy the Core i7-920.

x264 HD Encode Benchmark

Peak power is also lowest on the Q9550S, note that it draws 11W less than the Core i7-920. But the thing to keep in mind is that, once more, the i7-920 is about 40% faster than the Q9550S.
Once again, the two Core i7 platforms offer better energy efficiency than the new Q9550S. In fact, the Q9550S offers about the same energy efficiency as the rest of the Core 2 Quad lineup and AMD?s new Phenom II X4 940. If you want energy efficiency, you actually want a Core i7.

Fallout 3 Benchmark

The energy efficiency graph is, however, unexpected. The Fallout 3 benchmark is a fixed time test; in other words, it takes the same amount of time to complete regardless of the system. With all benchmarks taking the same amount of time, total energy consumed should be dependent solely on average power. We?ve already seen that average power is pretty similar between the systems, so we should see some pretty even results here right?

Wrong.

The i7-920 actually uses less energy in this test than the lowest power quad-core Penryn we have on the chart.

FarCry 2 Benchmark

Despite the decrease in power consumption, it?s just not enough to make the Q9550S actually any more energy efficient. It?s a cooler running part, but the performance per watt ratio of the Core i7 remains untouched.

EDIT: And just to note, these charts also show the PhII 940 pulling more total power than the Intel C2Q chips in nearly every case to accomplish the same tasks. Much better than the old Phenom I 9950 but not up to the Intel standard yet.