New Computer

[Compnewbie01]

Okay I have decided to build my own computer and spent the last week researching/looking at different parts. I am buying most of the components from newegg and monarchcomputer.com while my motherboard will come from zipzoomfly in order to get the rebate. I ask that maybe a few experienced people respond with suggestions/opinions on the following items.

CPU - AMD 3500+ Venice
Video - Leadtek 6800GT PCIe
Case - Thermaltake Xaser III
HD - Seagate 160GB SATA
Mobo - MSI Neo4 Platinum Nforce4 (ZipZoomFly for rebate)
KB/Mouse - Logitech MX3100 ($90 after rebate from amazon.com)
PSU - Antec Neopower 480W Dual rail (15A/18A)
LCD - Samsung 915N
RAM - OCZ Gold Series (2X512MB)
OS - Windows XP Pro w/ SP2
CD/DVD-ROM - Lite-On IDE
DVD-Burner - NEC IDE
Floppy - Cheap Samsung floppy (For $7.99 why not?)

I would appreciate any feedback on these parts both the good and bad. Maybe if somewhere I could shave off a few dollars and still get atleast 90% performance I will definately consider it. Money isn't a critical factor, but as long as it is a somewhat futureproof machine that won't go obsolete in three months. Everything above the Mobo is from monarchcomputer.com and everything below the KB/Mouse combo is from newegg.com

 

[Compnewbie01]

Oh and I would like to add that I will NOT be overclocking for sure. I do not know how and am not sure if I feel like voiding warranties/risking it. However I will for sure look into it just in case I decide.

 

[Compnewbie01]

Bump, please respond if you have any input.

 

[Matt2]

How much flexibility in your budget?

You should consider overclocking. It will save you a bundle. For example, your 3500+ will reach it's max frequency at the same point as my 3000+ for only a couple hundred more. If you're gonna go big on the CPU, at least get a 3700+ San Diego

 

[Matt2]

Here, 3700+ San Diego for only about $80 more than the cheapest 3500+ I could find.

The 3700+ is a far superior CPU and leaves lots OC headroom if and when you decide to overclock. Most 3700+ San Diegos will do at least 2.8GHZ and with a little luck, 3GHZ

EDIT: $80 more, not $50

 

[Varun]

I think it looks great. The 3700+ is quite a bit more money than the 3500+. If you don't want to overclock don't let anyone pressure you into it.

 

[Compnewbie01]

I won't risk screwing something up unless I am comfortable with it. My budget is probably around $2000 but that is an absolute maximum and I don't even want to spend that if I don't have to. The 3500+ just sounded good and was only around $35 more than the 3200+. After that point the pricing goes up rapidly compared to the lower speeds. I originally considered the 3800+, but was swayed away because it was a nice savings with the 3500+ and stock performance would probably not be that much greater. I want to try and place my big order tomorrow so need fast information if possible.

For example, your 3500+ will reach it's max frequency at the same point as my 3000+ for only a couple hundred more.

I do not fully understand what you are trying to say. I don't know where to begin with overclocking since most guides I've seen aren't as easy as everyone claims they are. RAM OCing, voltages, and dividers are still a mystery to me and that seems like the biggest gray area for me.

To summarize what I want...Spending $50+ for something that would increase my computer <5% is not worth it. $1500 seems like a good price that I wanted to shoot for but things got expensive with the operating system and LCD. So the 3800+ is out of the question and the 3700+ is only like $40 less? Seems like there is a price gap between the 32/3500+ and 37/3800+. Keep the input coming! It will all help me greatly.

 

[DanDaMan315]

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=28&threadid=1497607&enterthread=y

^Good OC guide by Zebo.

Get a 3000 venice e6 and OC it to 2.7ghz. Atleast get the Epox-Ultra board, best stock mobo and it's capable of some good OCing.

 

[Matt2]

Cheapest A64 Venice 3500+

$229

Cheapest A64 3700+ San Diego

$295

The 3500+ Venice is just an overclocked version of the 3000+ Venice. Almost all Venice cores will get you anywhere from 2.5-2.7GHZ. So, you would be paying $229 for what a $140 processor (3000+ Venice) could accomplish.

The 3700+ for ~$75 more is the much smarter buy. It's 200mhz faster than the 3500+ stock, 1MB L2 cache (although it doesn't help much) plus as you get more comforatable with your computer, you can overclock it to 2.8GHZ and beyond.

Trust me, it's worth the $80.

 

[Matt2]

But, I'm not gonna tell you to buy something you don't want so, I'll keep my lips sealed from now on.

 

[munchow2]

Originally posted by: Compnewbie01
Okay I have decided to build my own computer and spent the last week researching/looking at different parts. I am buying most of the components from newegg and monarchcomputer.com while my motherboard will come from zipzoomfly in order to get the rebate. I ask that maybe a few experienced people respond with suggestions/opinions on the following items.

CPU - AMD 3500+ Venice
Video - Leadtek 6800GT PCIe
Case - Thermaltake Xaser III
HD - Seagate 160GB SATA
Mobo - MSI Neo4 Platinum Nforce4 (ZipZoomFly for rebate)
KB/Mouse - Logitech MX3100 ($90 after rebate from amazon.com)
PSU - Antec Neopower 480W Dual rail (15A/18A)
LCD - Samsung 915N
RAM - OCZ Gold Series (2X512MB)
OS - Windows XP Pro w/ SP2
CD/DVD-ROM - Lite-On IDE
DVD-Burner - NEC IDE
Floppy - Cheap Samsung floppy (For $7.99 why not?)

I would appreciate any feedback on these parts both the good and bad. Maybe if somewhere I could shave off a few dollars and still get atleast 90% performance I will definately consider it. Money isn't a critical factor, but as long as it is a somewhat futureproof machine that won't go obsolete in three months. Everything above the Mobo is from monarchcomputer.com and everything below the KB/Mouse combo is from newegg.com

I will address them in order:
CPU: That is a good one, but get a faster one if you can. Speed is king in AMD world.
Video: I'd hold back since Nvidia just announced the price drops so don't buy until you see your local store drop some prices. (I'm not talking about best buy etc..)
Case: This is possibly where you could save the most money. But aesthetics are entirely up to you.
HD: Cool. If you can, just buy a bigger one with SATA II since your mobo supports it anyway. Maybe WD 250GB with SATA II.
Mobo: You could get it but also buy a Zalman Fanmate 1/2 since the NB starts to sound like a really annoying dustbuster after a while. I have this mobo btw.
KB/Mouse: You could also save a bit of money on the mouse/keyboard setup. I personally use a LX700 and the corresponding cordless keyboard and the mouse is quite good for FPS and gaming.
PSU: I see no problem here.
LCD: that one is dammmmmmn nice if you can afford it. However, the 8ms refresh is probably not noticible. Well monitor technology isn't generally ground breaking from one generation to the next but I am just saying that you could probably do with a slight cheaper 19'' one and not notice the difference unless you put 2 of them side by side. Ah yes, you could also buy 3 17'' monitors if you have the room! Multiple monitors is sweet.
RAM: That is very good RAM. You could probably get away with performance/premier series or just buy some nice Corsair ones but it doesn't really matter. I have a nice rebate for the performance ones near my house so maybe look for some deals near you since RAM got more expensive this month.
OS: Just don't buy it.
DVD: I think you can get away with just a DVD burner since you asked to shave dollars. My DVD burner plays DVDs just fine.
Floppy: Just get one from your old computer. Buy yourself and your friend Mcdonald's Happy Meals for lunch.

 

[Compnewbie01]

So far, thanks for all the info because it is really helping me. Okay so I will give OCing a try (after looking/studying that guide a few times to be 100% sure). My only question is how easy is it to really fry a CPU? I'm not talking about being reckless, but is there still a fair chance to ruin it even by being careful/newbie? With that said, should I go for the 3700+ or get the 30/3200+ and OC it to the near max?

Even if Nvidia did lower their prices, I doubt that these changes would affect stores/online prices for some time as they still have inventory with old prices. I don't want to wait a long time for these prices to drop either.

I picked that case because I think it looks great and it had great reviews. Case is important to me because I wanted something that looks great, but isn't too flashy with weird stuff like some that I've seen.

For HD, I really don't need more than 120GB to be honest. The most I have ever put on my current comp (over 1 year of use) is about 60GB. I went with 160GB because it was only a few dollars extra. Also is SATA II worth extra money or is SATA150 good?

If I did get a new fan, is it hard to replace or require thermal paste/pad/grease of any sort? Also what is your experience with that board?

I like the PSU and LCD, they both look like nice buys and have good reviews. I looked at the Dell 1905FP, but I guess it isn't on sale at the moment and its over $380.

I got no problem with the RAM because it looks solid with 2-2-2-5 timings (good right?). However, reviews said it is defaulted at slower timings and needs the voltage upped (how hard is this?).

I am not comfortable with finding a free copy of windows and linux doesnt seem viable for me. I also wouldn't know where to find such a product for free.

Agreed, I will toss the DVD-ROM and just use the DVD-Burner for all CD/DVD-ROMs.

I got to get the floppy because I am not trashing this computer. This will be a secondary computer and the one I'm building will be the one I mainly use.

If there are any more suggestions please say so! Matt2, your info is helpful so don't hold back because in the end I want to hear the good, bad, and ugly. My main concern as of right now is the CPU speed and what my chances are of OCing safely to save money. Once again, thanks for all the information!

 

[Matt2]

3700+ will give best results if you dont wanna do some extreme overclocking. But the 3000+ Venice will give you the best increase and is the cheapest option.

As long as you are careful and overclock in small increments, it would be very hard to fry a CPU, just odn't go over the safe vcore limits and watch the temperatures.

 

[munchow2]

If you are totally noob to OCing then I recommend you don't take the 3000 to the extreme lol. Like if you don't know how to access your BIOS then I would be hesitant to do too much to your computer until you get more comfortable with adjusting hardware settings via the BIOS.

Actually, you should be able to see the price drop fairly quickly. I know that within 1 or 2 days of the AMD processor price cut, my local store had already cut prices.

Yes I agree, some cases are hideous *cough ASUS*. But that's just my opinion.

You never know how much HD space you need. I always thought 120GB would be too much, but my HD is begging for more space all the time due to my... um... activities, let's say no more on that. SATA II to my knowledge is probably worth the money as it is only a few dollars more but SATA II is more readily available to the higher range HDs like 200 GB+ i think. I am not sure, you'd have to check yourself. Performance-wise there actually isn't much of a difference but I see nothing to lose by spending 5% more on new technology.

Zalman Fanmate 2 isn't a fan. It's just a fan controller. Extremely easy to install but you should get it if you don't want to throw your computer out the window out of sheer annoyance. They are about $4-5 and are very useful. All they do is limit the amount of power going to the fan I THINK. P=VI right? Whatever, I just know it works like a gem.

As I said, you won't notice much of a difference between the LCDs although you should go to a computer store and have a look at them yourself. If you CAN spot the differences then by all means buy the gaming LCD.

Upping voltage is quite easy. Again, this is done through BIOS.

Windows xp... haha... too expensive for my blood.

Arive. I haven't used mine in 2 years since I have a USB stick Up to you.

I hear X2's are very nice. You could try the x2 3800. AMD hasn't been traditionally known for multi-tasking but I know I do my fair share on my intel with HT.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

I know you say you have a $2000 budget, but I just don't think the 3500+ "Venice" is right for you. If you don't plan on overclocking, you want to get the best stock bang for your buck--and that means socket 754.

$166 Athlon 64 3400+ "Newcastle" OEM -- http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=AX643400&c=pw
$14 CPU fan -- http://www.targetpcinc.com/Details.asp?ItemID=18880&Res=2
$55 ECS NF4-A754 (nForce4 with PCIe) -- http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB-NF4A754&c=pw
TOTAL: $235

$227 Athlon 64 3500+ "Venice" retail -- http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Microprocessors+PC
$100 (after rebate) MSI Neo4 Platinum nForce4 Ultra -- http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe...roductCode=241158&affiliate=pricewatch
TOTAL: $327

As you can see, for $92 less you can get nearly identical performance.

I'd also go with a less expensive PSU, as it adds nothing to your overall performance.

 

[Compnewbie01]

I do want to overclock it's just that I don't know how at the moment. I read that guide and it is a bit confusing, but I know with some work I will be able to understand it no problem. Right now the 3500+ looks like my best bet, but 3200+ is still out there. I had plans to buy everything either tomorrow or wednesday, but will push times back accordingly. I would consider socket 754, but 939 seems to be the most popular now days. This whole computer thing is just leading me in circles. I have switched out/changed the parts I wanted to buy at least 3 times yielding a completely different machine than my first build idea. I understand prices will inevitably drop over time, but my concern is that I don't want to regret buying something when it loses 30% of its price in two weeks.

Oh and I did go to CompUSA to check out monitors and I think one monitor was the same thing, but I didn't have the model number memorized at that time. It looked great though. Not too high on my concerns

Everything seems solid for me except the CPU. Oh and the CPU MUST be Retail. I want the manual and heatsink/fan ready to go as well as the warranty. I just want to know that the system I am looking at won't lose $300 in one month. I am probably rambling on now so I apologize.

Lastly, if I got that fan controller, wouldn't it be bad to reduce the fan speed/power because the chipset would overheat?

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: Compnewbie01
Okay I have decided to build my own computer and spent the last week researching/looking at different parts. I am buying most of the components from newegg and monarchcomputer.com while my motherboard will come from zipzoomfly in order to get the rebate. I ask that maybe a few experienced people respond with suggestions/opinions on the following items.

CPU - AMD 3500+ Venice

That's a fast CPU that has a fair amount of overclocking potential. Since it turns out that you do eventually plan to overclock, the 3500+ is a good choice.

Video - Leadtek 6800GT PCIe

If you do a lot of graphic-intensive gaming, then this might be a reasonable purchase. Otherwise, don't spend more than $100 on a video card.

Case - Thermaltake Xaser III

Whatever you like.

HD - Seagate 160GB SATA

Seagates are nice.

Mobo - MSI Neo4 Platinum Nforce4 (ZipZoomFly for rebate)

Is it a good overclocker? Do some research to make sure.

KB/Mouse - Logitech MX3100 ($90 after rebate from amazon.com)

Whatever you like will work for you.

PSU - Antec Neopower 480W Dual rail (15A/18A)

Wouldn't you save the extra $50? With the video card you picked out, you'll need a powerful PSU, but fancy features aren't going to do anything a basic PSU can't. Just get something with a nice +12v rail. Otherwise you'll be throwing money away.

LCD - Samsung 915N

Get whatever display you like best.

RAM - OCZ Gold Series (2X512MB)

Basic CL-2.5 RAM is fine. Spending $100 extra on OCZ Gold won't boost your system's performance more than 2-3%.

OS - Windows XP Pro w/ SP2

Unless you do a lot of networking, get XP Home.

CD/DVD-ROM - Lite-On IDE

Fine.

DVD-Burner - NEC IDE

Very nice.

Floppy - Cheap Samsung floppy (For $7.99 why not?)

Good idea.

I would appreciate any feedback on these parts both the good and bad. Maybe if somewhere I could shave off a few dollars and still get atleast 90% performance I will definately consider it. Money isn't a critical factor, but as long as it is a somewhat futureproof machine that won't go obsolete in three months. Everything above the Mobo is from monarchcomputer.com and everything below the KB/Mouse combo is from newegg.com

PCs don't depreciate quite as fast as that. The components, like cars, will depreciate most as soon as you buy them, when they become "used" instead of "new." After that, it will take years for the components to drop just 50% in value, regardless of what you get.

 

[Compnewbie01]

Excellent information!

Yes, I am a big gamer (not HARD HARDCORE though) and want something that won't be obsolete in three months.

The case looks and sounds nice, but if anyone has experience with it and why it's good/bad please tell.

I'm going to go for the SATA II HD from Western Digital...same size for $1 more.

PSU seems like a solid purchase...the black case is also a plus and it does have a rebate. I also hear that the Nforce4 chipset is quite a power hog.

The RAM was a good deal as well. With rebate, it will only be about $30-40 more than the cheap CL3.0 RAM.

I have heard many things about how XP Pro is more stable and better than home. No plans to network other than using a router to split a cable connection (does that count?).

Thanks for reassuring me that prices won't fall out and drop drastically in the next month.

I left the mobo for last. Reading through the mobo forums, it appears that the MSI Neo4 has problems, but the platinum series is very good (from what I can tell). I believe it is good for overclocking even for beginners.

 

[deathwalker]

Newbie01...your list of hardware is just fine and you will be more than happy with the results as long as you use care in the assembly and installation. "FORGET" overclocking, that can get you into areas that as a newbie you should not venture into. The performance you will get from your stock hardware will be more than you will need for a long time. Most of this overclocking stuff is just ego trip material...kinda like saying my daddy can whip you daddy stuff. Operating your computer and its equipment at factory recommended settings will give you all you need in performance and help to insure the life of your equipment. Have fun!!

 

[So]

Looks good, but go for some value ram. Cas 2.5 should do fine and save you a bundle.

 

[birdpup]

For more information, you can read *** The ULTIMATE Motherboard Selection Guide For New Users *** located at the top of the Motherboard category, Power Supply 101, and Mechbgon's Photo guide for 1st-time builders.

Anything I add is in complement to the previous advice since it is all good advice.

Yes, the socket 754 systems are a good deal with a lower cost but the 939 systems are where most people want to be if they care enough about their system to build their own. Maybe it is vanity but this includes personal happiness and satisfaction.

Motherboard: I agree with your decision not to purchase SLI (two graphics cards) since this is not necessary. I would recommend considering the EPOX 9NPA+Ultra and the ASUS A8N-E. I like Asus and have the A8N-E.

Hard Drive: Consider a larger hard drive if you can find a larger SATA 150/II within your budget. Hard drive space is consumed easily. Also, consider an external hard drive for backup purposes. Hard drives fail regularly and you do not want to be in the technical support category next year asking how to recover the data on your failed hard drive. I would estimate at least three people a day ask for help with recovering their data, here at Anandtech. A backup routine is typically not considered when configuring PC's yet it inevitably becomes the highest priority a couple years later. External hard drives make this process easy but they come at a price.

CPU: For gaming, it is good to emphasize the video card over the processor. An NVidia GeForce 6600 or 6800 combined with an AMD64 3000+ Venice works very well. (I do not want to call an AMD64 3000+ Venice a low end processor but consider it one for this comparison.) I purchased the AMD64 3000+ Venice for $150 for my first attempt at overclocking since I figured that if I do accidentally burn it up, then it is easily replaced at a relatively low cost. I was a little afraid when learning how to overclock on my current socket 939 system but was reassured by the relatively low replacement cost of the individual components. I would suggest you look at the AMD64 3200+ for now, and then consider learning how to overclock your system over winter or spring break, assuming you are a student. If you burn up your processor, which few people actually do, then you can easily replace it. You can also consider replacing that relatively low level processor in a year or two when the current high end cpus are cheaper. I consider the current 3200+ to be more than enough processing power for typical use and I think most people would agree with this.

HeatSink Fan: Sure you can get by with the stock heatsink fan (HSF) included in the retail package but you really want to consider something better. Currently, the best options are THERMALRIGHT XP-90 and the THERMALRIGHT XP-120. I believe (and I may be wrong) that these HSF's can provide an 8-15C temperature drop under the stock HSF.

LCD: Would you consider a larger LCD panel of 20 or 21 inches with a 1600x1200 resolution? Or you could consider two 19" monitors? My preference is for the 1600x1200 resolution, which is not available in LCD panels smaller than 20".

RAM: OCZ is considered the best RAM for overclocking and its prices are at a premium for this reason. It is easy to find cheaper RAM. Since the AMD64 has an onboard memory controller, high end RAM is not a necessity and will only provide minimal system performance improvement. A good mid-range company is PDP Patriot, which also overclocks well (but not as good as OCZ) should you desire to OC.

OS: Unless you are or plan to be an MS software developer, system administrator, or you plan to host web pages on your machine then you do not need WinXP Pro. If purchasing your own license, it is recommended to obtain WinXP Home since it is much cheaper and there is nothing missing from a non-technical user's viewpoint.

CD/DVD Burner: I would recommend only one since double layer DVD burners can be purchased for $50, which is a relatively low cost for replacement should it be worn out quickly through standard use. But I am not aware of CD/DVD burners wearing out within two or three years. I would recommend the NEC 3520, NEC 3540 (beige) or NEC 3540 (black).

 

[Varun]

Originally posted by: Compnewbie01
Excellent information!

Yes, I am a big gamer (not HARD HARDCORE though) and want something that won't be obsolete in three months. OK stick with the 6800GT - great card

The case looks and sounds nice, but if anyone has experience with it and why it's good/bad please tell. Cases are completely up to an individual's taste, get whichever one you think looks the best.

I'm going to go for the SATA II HD from Western Digital...same size for $1 more. SATAII isn't going to offer you any performance increases, I would think most people would say the Seagate is a much more reliable hard drive than Western Digital, and of those two I would say stick with the Seagate. Also look at Samsung Spinpoints as they are the quietest hard drives out, and performance is ok.

PSU seems like a solid purchase...the black case is also a plus and it does have a rebate. I also hear that the Nforce4 chipset is quite a power hog. That's a great PSU you picked out.

The RAM was a good deal as well. With rebate, it will only be about $30-40 more than the cheap CL3.0 RAM. The good RAM will also allow you to overclock in the future if you so decide. The MSI board isn't as good as the DFI board for overclocking, however it will be more than enough.

I have heard many things about how XP Pro is more stable and better than home. No plans to network other than using a router to split a cable connection (does that count?). XP Pro offers more than just the ability to connect to an Active Directory Domain, such as Remote Desktop and IIS. Do some research and see if you would use any of the features before you buy Pro. Pro and Home are both very stable operating systems, and are 100% identical other than some features added. If you aren't going to use any of the features that Pro uses, just save some money and go with Home.

Thanks for reassuring me that prices won't fall out and drop drastically in the next month. Prices always go down, and new stuff comes out that outperforms what you bought last month. You can always wait for the new prices/hardware, so you just have to ante up and buy at one point.

I left the mobo for last. Reading through the mobo forums, it appears that the MSI Neo4 has problems, but the platinum series is very good (from what I can tell). I believe it is good for overclocking even for beginners. It is likely the most recommended motherboard for non overclockers here on Anandtech, so that should say something. I think you will be happy with it. While it doesn't offer the extreme RAM killing voltages of the DFI if you ever decide to overclock it will have your bases covered.

 

[Compnewbie01]

Thanks for the information once again. I will now go with the Epox mobo seen here. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?item=N82E16813123236 It has excellent feedback and should work well. To make matters ever better! Anantech wrote a review about several mobos including this one and it got the editor's choice. It should work nicely.

 

[Compnewbie01]

Oh and I forgot to add that I will go with XP home to shave off some dollars and also tone down the RAM a bit. Still slightly undecided on the HDs...Seagate SATA150 or WD Sata II?

 

[birdpup]

Seagate. They currently have the best reputation. Samsungs are known to be quieter but the Seagate have a five year warranty that implies quality.