New Computer Soon

[Kwestyuns]

To get it out of the way, I plan on spending around $1000-1500, possibly more... just depends on what would be the best bang for the buck at the moment.

I haven't built a new computer since about mid-2006. Back when my X1900XT cost over $500 and the best processor out was AM2 (a couple weeks before core 2's came out). I've been scouring the net trying to figure out what would be the best for what I need it for, which is basically gaming. With music making and video editing being hobbies, but I don't really want to build a comp based off of the video editing.

So far I have more questions than answers. I read anandtech every day at work, and I read all the articles on parts religiously. However, there's been so many new changes lately I'm kind of lost. My first question is:
Is there anything better than the Q6600? Obviously it's older brothers are better, but I don't really see the point in spending an extra $300 on a Q9550 for an extra .4GHz. Is the 9550 more suitable for over clocking? Or is your extra $300 only going towards the newest, bestest thing and an extra .4GHz? I plan on over clocking, as I always do, but since there's very few games or apps that take advantage of 4 cores. I fail to see the point of spending the extra money for such little performance difference, or am I missing something?

Next questions: RAM; I have DDR2 RAM in my current comp. When I built this computer DDR2 was still pretty new and had loose timings. Now with DDR3, is it more used for certain chipsets? Is it only viable for quad cores? Would it be better to get DDR2 with tight timings or DDR3 with looser ones? For instance, the DDR3 RAM I'm looking at is PC17056 at 2133MHz at 9-9-9-24 and the DDR2 is PC8500 at 1066MHz at 5-5-5-15. Which of these would be better for a high(er) end system?

Right now I'm leaning towards a Q6600 for my CPU. An ATI 4870 (one for now, will probably buy another one to CF them in a month or two) for my GPU. Now comes what I'm not entirely sure on. Depending on how my question about the 6600 and the 9550 is answered, odds are I'll stay with the 6600. So, what is the best chipset these days for over clocking a Q6600? With that, what would be the best motherboard for it? Also, depending on how my question about RAM was answered, would DDR3 or 5 be best? Hell, would it even be better to buy DDR2 with tighter timings? And which motherboard would be best for either of those and (depending on above) the Q6600?

Basically the only thing I'm 100% sure about is the 4870, so in a month or two I can get a second one to CF them. At this point I want the Q6600, but if my question above is answered, that may change depending on if there?s a reason to spend the money to get a faster one.

I think I've posted enough. I'm fairly clueless these days on what would be the best performance for the cost. Tentatively I'm looking at ATI 4870 (and a second one in a couple months), Q6600, for RAM I'm looking at PC14400 but I'm not sure on which manufacturer and I'm open to changing this depending on the feedback I get. For the motherboard the best one I found that wasn't $6000 was the ASUS P5Q3, thoughts? Would it be a great board for my CPU, RAM and GPU?

Haven't decided on a case or PSU yet, any recommendations?

I'm not worried about hard drives (as I have about 15) unless someone has one of the new OCZ SSD's that *fell* off the back of a truck they want to get rid of for half price.

Sorry for such a lengthy post and if I repeated myself too many times. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[DSF]

If you're planning to Crossfire two 4870s why not just get a 4870x2?

As far as RAM, stick to DDR2. DDR3 offers no real performance increase to justify its higher price, and DDR5 doesn't really exist. Don't worry too much about the timings - they just aren't that important on a Core2 based system. For overclocking a Q6600 DDR2-800 is all you need. The chip is going to top out at around 3.6GHz if you're lucky, which means DDR2-800 has all the head room you need thanks to the Q6600's 9x multiplier.

For overclocking a Q6600 I would go with a good P45 board like the ASUS P5Q Pro or similar. However, if you're planning to Crossfire 4870s instead of getting a single 4870x2, you'll want an X38 or X48 motherboard.

For the power supply I'd get something like the Corsair 750TX. If you want modular, Antec has an 850W model that's well-reviewed and I believe it's still on sale at Newegg.

 

[Kwestyuns]

Just noticed the ASUS P5Q series don't support DDR3... now I need suggestions on RAM AND motherboards.

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Kwestyuns
Just noticed the ASUS P5Q series don't support DDR3... now I need suggestions on RAM AND motherboards.

For a Q6600 I would probably get this motherboard and RAM, but again you'll want to tailor the motherboard to your own needs:

Motherboard:
ASUS P5Q Pro

RAM:
Mushkin 2x2GB DDR2-800

 

[z1ggy]

DDR2 G.skill 2X2gb for the RAM.

And do try that p5Q because I suggest you only get one 4870X2 gpu. Unless you want to run a res past 1950x1500 That card is going to max you out.

 

[Kwestyuns]

I appreciate the help, fellas.

DSF, the reason why I was wanting to get 2 4870s, is because I was going to get one now, when I build the system and then one in a month or two when I'm confident enough in my finances that there will be no problems. But since you guys are saying that with a Q6600 all I'll need is DDR2 RAM and if I'm not CFing it I won't need an X38/48 chipset, then that cuts enough money off of the price where I could just go with a 4870 X2 rather than 2 4870s.

I'll definitely look that RAM up, z1ggy.

Would you guys say that right now this setup would be the best performance for the price? I generally try and build a new computer every 2 years so I want to make sure I'm not screwing myself in any way when it comes to performance. Like, I don't want to be paying $1500 for a new computer that?s just 'ok' when I could be paying $2000 for a new one that is top of the line. Would you guys consider this system a good system? Like... would there be a reason to spend another $300 on a Q9550, an X48 motherboard and 3 gigs of DDR3? Or would the price for it all just not be worth it compared to what I'm looking towards now?

Also, DSF, at the risk of sounding like a douche bag... is that Mushkin RAM good? 4 gigs for 90 bucks makes it feel like I'm buying something that is some kind of knock off RAM that will burn itself out in a week.

I'm one of those stupid people that think if I'm building a system for $1000 it's going to suck. Would the Q6600 be the best processor to get right now? (Obviously it's older brothers would be, but aside from them) Since you guys said DDR3 is pointless at the moment (also, it seems that no Q6600 motherboard supports it aside from the THREE I found.. 1 with X38 and 2 with X48) why is PC6400 the highest I would want to go? Is it really fast enough to not bottle-neck the system at all? Err... I guess I just feel like only paying $90 for the RAM, $130 for the mobo and $190 for the CPU (well, and 500 for the 4870 X2) that I'm not really upgrading! I guess I need to get that out of my head.

If you guys had $1500 to spend, what would you buy?

 

[Roguestar]

Anything involving DDR3 is not the current sweet spot of priceerformance. DDR2-800 won't bottleneck a system, and will only even limit your overclock if you're pushing the FSB quite high.

As far as that goes, assuming you're gaming and don't want to upgrade for another two years, then I'd personally try something like this:
A P45 board, single 4870X2, 4GB of DDR2-800, Q9300 CPU, couple of big hard drives and a PSU of around 600W (modular preferred).

 

[DSF]

Specifically which parts are included in the $1500 budget? Just the box and what's inside? Box and monitor? Everything including keyboard/mouse/speakers/OS?

 

[Kwestyuns]

In the $1500 most everything would be included. I'll probably use the G15 keyboard I have now and buy some windows keyboard for this comp when I finish the new one. Same with the mouse. Haven't decided if I'll factor in a hard drive with the system at all. Odds are I'll just use one of the nearly 15 I have and suck it up at 7200 RPM's for a couple months, then buy one of the new OCZ SSD's when A) I have the cash to or B) they drop in price a bit. But I need to get a new power supply for the beast of a video card that is the 4870 X2, and I'm going to need a new case as well. So, I think that in total it will be:
Case
PSU
Motherboard
CPU
Video Card
RAM
.. oh ya, and a heatsink.

I *think* thats all I feel like encompassing into the $1500. In all honesty I'd rather keep it near $1000, but with the 4870 X2 I'm pretty much going to consider that not possible.

I'm pretty close on deciding what I think I should get and tracking down the specific parts; if I figure it out tonight I'll post it up. If not, I have a whole week of work doing nothing but sitting at my computer so I'll have plenty of time.

On a sidenote: If any of you have had a desire to become a Nuclear Power Plant Operator don't do it unless you can stand sitting in a training room for 11 months and not being able to leave it during your 'self-study' time.

 

[Kwestyuns]

Bump for more suggestions.

 

[Kwestyuns]

I'm just going to pretend I know what I'm going to get. That said, would this ( http://computers.pricegrabber....r/st=product/sv=title/ ) power supply be enough to power for:

Processor - Q6600
GPU - 4870 X2
Motherboard - Something in the P5Q series... I think. Anyone have a valid opinion on this?
RAM - According to everyone I should go with DD2 PC6400 because theres no point in getting anything else. The RAM I was looking at is: http://www.tigerdirect.com/app...o=3617672&sku=C13-6094 .
I'll have on average 3 SATA drives hooked up, we can assume one is a raptor.
Also at least 2 CD/DVD drives.

I don't really think anything else would really matter in the power factor. So, do you guys think this power supply will be good enough with still a bit of overhead? http://computers.pricegrabber....r/st=product/sv=title/

I think I've read every article on the net about the 4870 X2's and the MAX system load was a little over 400, thats SYSTEM load. Oh, and read reason I'm being stingy about money and the PSU us that I plan on getting a second 4870 X2 in the distant future and I'm gonna have to buy a new power supply then (over 1k), so the cheaper I can go on the PSU the more I can spend on other stuff; since I'm gonna be replacing it in the future anyway.

 

[Roguestar]

Why not get this G.Skill memory which is as good quality, higher speed incase you decide you want to overclock hugely (it could happen ) and it's cheaper too.
$85 4GB DDR2-1000 http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820231145
That power supply may not entirely be enough, I'm not sure. Perhaps look for something in the 800W range to be safe.

 

[Juked07]

If you do choose to go for 800MHz memory, the mushkin kit DSF recommended is quite good. It's been reviewed well, is rated for a lower voltage (1.8), has relatively tight timings, and tons of people on AT have gotten it.

Mine has been running with no problems.

 

[Kwestyuns]

Well... as not to upset either of you, I'll buy both the RAM modules!

I'm trying to find a site that can tell me if I can use a 680W PSU or not. Like I said, I just dont wanna spend the extra $100 because I'm gonna buy a new PSU when I buy my second 4870 X2, so I'm just trying to keep the price as low as possible. Maybe I should just wait a few months and spend $2500 instead of half-assing it now. :/

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: Kwestyuns
Well... as not to upset either of you, I'll buy both the RAM modules!

I'm trying to find a site that can tell me if I can use a 680W PSU or not. Like I said, I just dont wanna spend the extra $100 because I'm gonna buy a new PSU when I buy my second 4870 X2, so I'm just trying to keep the price as low as possible. Maybe I should just wait a few months and spend $2500 instead of half-assing it now. :/

If you are certain you're getting a second 4870x2 then get whatever PSU you will need in the future now. No sense paying for one only to upgrade it in a few months. (And if you're waiting longer than a few months to buy the second video card, don't bother with Crossfire.)

A 680W PSU will handle one 4870x2, but not two. If you're serious about crossfiring two 4870x2s I would look at something in the 1000W range like the Corsair 1000HX. Anandtech did a round-up of some high-wattage units not terribly long ago, so I'd look through the PSU section of the front page and dig that up if I were you.

You asked a question earlier about pricing that never really got answered, something about it seemed to you that the costs were too low for the components to be good quality.

In my opinion, building a fast computer (relative to the technology of the time period) is less expensive now than it's ever been. Take advantage of that and don't pay the markup on fancy-schmancy items that offer no additional performance.

 

[Kwestyuns]

Thanks for all the help DSF, and to all you other guys as well.

Ok, so I'm pretty much 100% certain in the direction I'm going now. Which is:
Q6600
An Asus P5Q - series motherboard (haven't decided which, yet)
ATI 4870 X2 - I guess there isn't really a point in planning to buy another one, since by the time I get around to it, it would probably be a better idea to just buy a new card.
A good 680W PSU
For RAM: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820146793 ... the RAM you recommended is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820146731 .. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the first ones be better?

Thats pretty much the only things I wasn't certain about. Now.. just to reiterate a couple of questions and points...

Just to reiterate about the RAM, from what you say DDR3 is pretty pointless, got it. But if PC6400 (DDR2 800) is all I need for my system, what is the point of manufacturers making PC14400 and up? Also, like I said above, wouldn't the RAM with the 4-4-4-12 timings be better than the ones with 5-4-4-12 timings, or does it really not matter? See below for my last RAM question.

Would it be better to get a higher model quad (aside from the obvious speed difference)? Instead of getting a Q6600, would a Q9300 be better? Or do they not overclock as well, or do they have lower performance and just higher frequency? The difference between them is only .10GHz and 266MHz FSB. If I got the 9300 would it be pointless because theres not really a performace increase? Also... if I got the 9300 I'd want to change the RAM from DDR2 800 to DDR2 1000, right? Or would I even want to go a bit higher since the FSB of the 9300 is 1333?

I think thats all I have for this thread. I look forward to your answers so I can quit bothering you.

 

[Kwestyuns]

Bumping so DSF can see this and answer me (or someone else that can).

 

[Roguestar]

RAM timings make less than 1% difference with Core 2 CPUs. As for why RAM manufacturers make higher rated RAM, it's mostly marketing. It's easy to sell DDR2-1200 to people willing to buy anything with the word "gamer" or "xtreme" on it as long as it has high numbers, but additionally, if you buy really high rated RAM and you're an overclocker, then you know the RAM is guaranteed for high enough speeds so as to not hold your FSB back while you're pushing it.

If you were to change the Q6600 for a Q9300 (you need to decide if the slight speed increase and ability to overclock despite your non-interest in overclocking is worth the difference), you'd still be able to use DDR2-800 even if you were to overclock it. Basically, DDR2-800 has plenty of headroom if you're not overclocking.

By the way, regarding the RAM you've been recommended in this thread, if I were you I'd just get the DDR2-800 that's cheapest; between the second Mushkin in your post or the G.Skill I linked earlier.