New computer processor decision (plz help)

[Vaulter]

Im planning a computer build as a little graduation present to myself. I'm poor now, and am going to have to pay for college, so my budget is pretty low. 500-600, and im looking for a decent processor to power the system. I was thinking that (for now) I could get a amd Phenom II x2 callisto black edition, with an amd2+/am3 mobo so i could use ddr2 ram cause its cheaper right now, and upgrade to ddr3 later, and with the am3 socket upgrade to to the hex core processor thats coming out? I put a question mark cause i really want input. It was between this processor, and an i3 (or i5 if it comes down in price, which i doubt) but ive been an amd fanboy forever, and wouldnt mind sticking with it. Plus "Black edition" will sound cool when im talking to non computer literate people.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

DDR2 and DDR3 are practically the same price right now. 2Gb runs around $50 for either one. 4Gb can be between $80 and $100 for either one. So don't go AM2+ just because you think its cheaper. Go AM3 and DDR3 now and save yourself the trouble. It's the same price. Also, the prices are so close for dual and quad cores. Just go quad. You can get the 620 Propus quad for $99. If your price range is upwards of $600, AMD is a good place to go. If you want to go i5, you can do it in that price range, but it will be close depending on other components that you want to add. Black Edition is meaningless unless you're actually going to overclock it.

So the question becomes:

1. What is the purpose of this computer? (Gaming? Other?)
2. What all do you need? (Ie, all components, or just some?)

I ask because if you already have keyboard/mouse/monitor that's great. If you already have a case, that's great. If you already have HDD's and stuff, that's great. If all you need is Mobo/CPU/RAM/PSU for example, you have a lot more options with that budget.

So give more info.

Very best,

 

[Vaulter]

SORRY! forgot to post what i was going to do with it. Im going into graphic design as a major, so ill need a computer that can run photoshop, fireworks, and illustrator easily, which is why i chose an easily OCable proc. Also, i will be running with onboard graphics until i can scrape up the money to buy a dedicated video card, and i wont be doing that until Diablo 3 (the only game i plan on really playing besides maybe lfd2)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vaulter]

Heya,

So the question becomes:

1. What is the purpose of this computer? (Gaming? Other?)
2. What all do you need? (Ie, all components, or just some?)

I ask because if you already have keyboard/mouse/monitor that's great. If you already have a case, that's great. If you already have HDD's and stuff, that's great. If all you need is Mobo/CPU/RAM/PSU for example, you have a lot more options with that budget.

So give more info.

Very best,

1. see above post =] was trying to watch fringe and complete the post at the same time. sorry.

2. I need a everything 'cept optical drive. my current comp is an old hp pavillion slimline, which i only bought because at the time i had size restrictions. (and the peripherals. i do have speakers, keyboard, mouse, and a decent monitor.)

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

In that case, this is much easier. I'd stick with AMD for this one, since you're on a budget, you'll get more computer for the dollar in this price range. For your needs, I'd shoot for 8Gb of memory and a Quadcore with L3 cache. You can get very decent onboard graphics in today's AMD chipsets, so if you have to wait to get a dedicated card, that's fine.

So you can add/take away to get an idea from the following for what you can get in the $500~$600 price range.

CPU: AMD x4 Propus 620 Quadcore $99
HSF: Scythe Mugen 2 $35
Mobo: Gigabyte GA-MA785GT-UD3H $95
RAM: Corsair 4Gb DDR3 1600 $95
PSU: Raidmax 630W Modular $65
DVDR: Sony Optiarc DVDR $30
HDD1: Samsung F3 Spinpoint 500Gb $55
Case: Antec 300 Illusion $55

Total: $530 ($500 if you drop the DVDR)

So you still have wriggle room in the budget. You can use that to double your memory and go 8Gb (suggested if you plan on doing heavy design work). Or you can use it to get a higher Quad, like the x4 955 Black $165.

Note that I included the Mugen 2 HSF aftermarket cooler so that you can overclock the snot out of the CPU. I have the 955 and the Mugen2 myself, and can attest that it hits 3.8Ghz with ease.

Later on, you can add an HD5770 for gaming if you feel the need.

For design work, you're going to likely want 3 HDD's. One for your OS. One for your scratch disk. One for long term, finished projects. And an external to transport them with (and for backups). So factor that into your budget as you get into it.

If you already have the DVD drive, you can save $30 off the total cost above and certainly double up to 8Gb of RAM, or go to the 955 Black CPU.

Very best,

 

[Vaulter]

Very nice build, thanks a bunch. Ive been putting them together on a word doc for awhile, but yours is probably better than all of them because im so stuck in my ways.
I don't need the optical drive, so theres 30 bucks out, i think ill do the 955 cpu, and double the ram when i upgrade the video card. Ive got a portable hard drive, and the drive in my current comp, so those can be some in there, but i would like a bigger one for this build.
I DO need a case, and while i was looking at the HAF mid tower case because it was large and had great features, it takes a huge chunk out of my budget, so i think ill shoot that down and go with the illusion. Ill also have a laptop, but i want a desktop, after having 2 laptops burned out as desktop replacements (hence the current pos system).

BTW, is that doctor horrible as your icon?

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Yes. Dr. Horrible!

Your primary HDD for the system is only really for the OS and the applications you run. You shouldn't be keeping your data files on it. Your data files (as you start designing) and page file (or swap file) should be on a separate drive (a secondary one). That's your scratch drive that you work from. And then backup any finalized work to a 3rd drive, separate from all that. You don't want to mix your OS with your work. If a melt down occurs (using Windows, it does happen) and you have to whip a disk, it's better to just have to whip the OS and not worry about your work files being affected. If they're separate, you're home free. If not, you have a lot of backing up to do which can be problematic.

That's why I gave you the fastest 500Gb drive available currently, the F3 spinpoint for your OS/apps. From there, I'd get the 1TB WD Black for your scratch/page file disk. And then any big drive that connects via eSATA/USB2.0 for external storage of finished projects and anything else you'd like to keep for a long time. You can get a 1.5TB WD Green for $110 which is the best Gb/$ ratio right now.

I actually have the HAF922, it's a great case. The illusion however is also a great case and half the price. I would only stress more money on the case if you know that you're going to go nuts with overclocking and dual GPU builds. Otherwise, the illusion is a perfect case for your components' sizes and has great cooling.

Oh, and as you get more into design, I hope you don't end up being sold too hard on MAC.

Very best,

 

[Vaulter]

Heya,

Yes. Dr. Horrible!

Your primary HDD for the system is only really for the OS and the applications you run. You shouldn't be keeping your data files on it. Your data files (as you start designing) and page file (or swap file) should be on a separate drive (a secondary one). That's your scratch drive that you work from. And then backup any finalized work to a 3rd drive, separate from all that. You don't want to mix your OS with your work. If a melt down occurs (using Windows, it does happen) and you have to whip a disk, it's better to just have to whip the OS and not worry about your work files being affected. If they're separate, you're home free. If not, you have a lot of backing up to do which can be problematic.

That's why I gave you the fastest 500Gb drive available currently, the F3 spinpoint for your OS/apps. From there, I'd get the 1TB WD Black for your scratch/page file disk. And then any big drive that connects via eSATA/USB2.0 for external storage of finished projects and anything else you'd like to keep for a long time. You can get a 1.5TB WD Green for $110 which is the best Gb/$ ratio right now.

I actually have the HAF922, it's a great case. The illusion however is also a great case and half the price. I would only stress more money on the case if you know that you're going to go nuts with overclocking and dual GPU builds. Otherwise, the illusion is a perfect case for your components' sizes and has great cooling.

Oh, and as you get more into design, I hope you don't end up being sold too hard on MAC.

Very best,

Thats great input, that will definitely be put to use later down the road, but as im going to be a graphic design student, i think 2 hdd would be plenty for now? the main OS/apps one, and then files. I plan on either doing another build, or hardcore upgrading this one when i graduate from college. (if i wasnt clear on that, im graduating high school and going into a graphic design major at ASU).

For the case, i think ill stick with the illusion. Ive been told i can get to 3.8 ghz on air with the x4 PhenomII.

I also have no current use for SLI or crossfire, its way too hardcore for what im going to be doing, so case size shouldnt be a problem.

I like fiddling with computers too much to go mac, i may buy a used macbook or something later down the line, but that will be in addition to my desktop and windows laptop.

 

[jvroig]

For your needs, I'd shoot for 8Gb of memory and a Quadcore with L3 cache.

CPU: AMD x4 Propus 620 Quadcore

The rest of the recommendations are fine, but this is a bit confusing. Athlon II CPUs including that 620 don't have L3 cache. You'll have to go Phenom II to get L3.

I also have no current use for SLI or crossfire, its way too hardcore for what im going to be doing, so case size shouldnt be a problem.

SLI or not, case size does matter depending on what card you actually want to get. Some cases cannot fit a 10.5" card, so cards like the GTX285 or 5870 are out of the picture. Mine looks like a mid-tower, but due to the PSU being mounted at the front and bottom, I can only fit a graphics card that does not exceed 9", so even the 5850 is a no go for such a case.

 

[Vaulter]

Diablo 3 isnt supposed to come out till 2011, and the requirements will likely be very low, so the card i will be getting will most likely be a budget card, and going by todays budget standards, smaller than todays 10 inch cards.

Do you think the cards in the future (2011) will be large like todays high quality cards?

Yeah, the l3 thing actually confused me to, but i think it was because my dual core black edition was one upped by a quad core athlon, thus negating the need for L3 to get superior speeds.

 

[jvroig]

Diablo 3 isnt supposed to come out till 2011, and the requirements will likely be very low, so the card i will be getting will most likely be a budget card, and going by todays budget standards, smaller than todays 10 inch cards.

Definitely smaller, budget cards are small.

Do you think the cards in the future (2011) will be large like todays high quality cards?

Most likely there will always be small cards and there will always be big cards. What remains to be seen is how competitive the small/budget/midrange cards will be on games you wish to play. I missed what resolution you are/will be playing at. If you are not gaming on 1920x1080 or higher, and maybe spare a few AA/AF settings, you probably won't need the large cards.

Yeah, the l3 thing actually confused me to, but i think it was because my dual core black edition was one upped by a quad core athlon, thus negating the need for L3 to get superior speeds.

Just don't worry about having a CPU with L3 or not. Instead, look at the benchmarks and call it good.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

I recommended L3 cache, but I showed the Propus for the purpose of budget ($99). Then gave the option for the 955, which does have L3 cache. If that's confusing, sorry guys.

I would suggest if budget permits that you try for an L3 cache capable chip. Benchmarks show it does make a difference. So if you're doing design work, I would definitely try to get a chip with L3 on it if its in your budget (like the 955). Alternatively, there are cheaper Quads with L3 too (but for the money, the 955 is pretty sweet).

Very best,

 

[Soulkeeper]

I Personally like the am3 + athlon II option right now
I'll likely be building a simple $400 build for a lady soon with just an X2 and integrated graphics.

She's coming from a Pentium3 so it'll be incredibly faster and she'll be able to drop in a 4 or 6 core and double/triple the memory at a later date.

 

[oatmealstorm]

I Personally like the am3 + athlon II option right now
I'll likely be building a simple $400 build for a lady soon with just an X2 and integrated graphics.

She's coming from a Pentium3 so it'll be incredibly faster and she'll be able to drop in a 4 or 6 core and double/triple the memory at a later date.

Pics or didn't happen.

 

[johnnydrinkawater]

...SLI or not, case size does matter depending on what card you actually want to get. Some cases cannot fit a 10.5" card, so cards like the GTX285 or 5870 are out of the picture. Mine looks like a mid-tower, but due to the PSU being mounted at the front and bottom, I can only fit a graphics card that does not exceed 9", so even the 5850 is a no go for such a case.

I was going to point that out as well, you probably won't find any midtowers in the ~$50 range that will fit the more advanced graphics cards.

I just ordered a CM Storm Scout, it will fit a GTX285 max with about 1mm to spare between the HDD bays and the end of the card.

 

[Vaulter]

so even with budget card in mind, would you recommend getting a bigger case? with a HAF case would i need the upgaded hsf to overclock to about 3.5 on the 955?

 

[Soulkeeper]

Pics or didn't happen.

same to you !

 

[jvroig]

so even with budget card in mind, would you recommend getting a bigger case? with a HAF case would i need the upgaded hsf to overclock to about 3.5 on the 955?

For budget cards, don't worry about it. 5770, for example, is 8.5" (card only), 9" counting the shroud it came with originally, but that has now mostly been replaced by an "egg" cooler, so down to the bare 8.5" length.

It's just something to think about as your decision for a system case now will greatly affect your possible video card upgrade paths later on (what if you suddenly see an irresistible deal for a 5870 or a GTX285 in the future? You can't take it without getting a new case if you get a case now that can't accommodate full-length cards).

If you buy a good case, it is something that can very well outlast all other parts, outlasting even a good PSU that may very well run for 5-8 years before failing you. You can think of buying a case as a long-term investment.

Of course, if you are budget-constrained or just don't want to throw too much money at this, and you are pretty much sure you won't be going beyond budget cards anyway, case size is not a problem, and you should do fine with your current choice.

 

[jvroig]

Heya,

I recommended L3 cache, but I showed the Propus for the purpose of budget ($99). Then gave the option for the 955, which does have L3 cache. If that's confusing, sorry guys.

I would suggest if budget permits that you try for an L3 cache capable chip. Benchmarks show it does make a difference. So if you're doing design work, I would definitely try to get a chip with L3 on it if its in your budget (like the 955). Alternatively, there are cheaper Quads with L3 too (but for the money, the 955 is pretty sweet).

Very best,

Ah, my apologies. I re-read your post, and it does seem clearer now.

And yes, just to be clear, I was not saying that L3 does not make a difference (because it does). I'm saying people shouldn't care about knowing if it has L3 or not since you look at benchmarks anyway and the performance in proper benchmarks already reflect the effect of having or not having L3, and the performance is what matters anyway. Given the current chips available, they (non-tech-oriented users/consumers) will settle unknowingly on a chip with or without L3 cache, as long as they meet their desired performance level.

 

[Vaulter]

thanks you, cause of your post i will be looking at a variety of cases. The motherboard is compatible with SLI/Crossfire i believe, and to get the experience i would like to mess with that in the future. mainly because the 70 dollar cards of tommorow will be as good or better than the 150 dollar cards of today. Thus, i want a case that will work with all sorts of cards, and 2 of them at the same time. Ill be posting in the cases and cooling sections, but does anyone have and suggestions here?

 

[Munky]

You guys are way over-thinking this. Unless we're talking about some serious heavy-duty production work, 4GB RAM is plenty, as well as a single HD. But I would not skimp on L3 cache, sooner or later you'd be wishing you had it, just like all the e2xxx Core2 users whose cpu performance is often held back by a puny L2 cache.