New cisco switch

[spidey07]

Well this certainly is new. Data center focused switch with total and complete virtualization and new software, NOT IOS. Wonder what this will do to the 6500 line.

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps9402/index.html
Infrastructure Scalability

* System designed for investment protection with a 15 Tbps highly scalable fabric
* Loosely Coupled Architecture to support long-term investment protection
* Cisco Trusted Security for scalable security with link-layer encryption and security group access-control lists and role-based access control
* Efficient physical and power design with front-to-back airflow


Operational Continuity

* Zero-Service Disruption Architecture
* Connectivity management processor (CMP) for integrated out-of-band management access
* Graceful system operations to minimize the effect of upgrades and other software operations
* Comprehensive XML API for total platform control


Transport Flexibility

* Built to support the emerging 40 Gbps and 100 Gbps Ethernet standards
* Flexible foundation for unified fabrics and unified I/O
* Virtual Device Contexts (VDCs) to maximize software and hardware resource utilization while providing strong security and software fault isolation
* Lossless fabric architecture to support the requirements of a unified fabric

 

[cmetz]

Anybody used these?

The new OS could be blessing or curse. IOS 12.4 sucks big time and I don't think Cisco can fix it. IOS XR I've heard bad things about but haven't touched (really, does anyone use the 15ks? anyone?). So in some rose-colored world, this could be the new OS that actually works and provides Cisco and Cisco shops with a way forward. I've got my fingers crossed!

I hope that Cisco will later introduce a mid-tier version of the 7k platform. There are a lot of enviroments for which the 6500 platform is just right and the 7k is too high end. And I certainly don't want to deploy 6500s into them (not before, and certainly not now that there's a potentially better alternative!).

Also note the coinciding Juniper announcement of three switches running JunOS. I'd be very interested in seeing how they work out. JunOS is good. New product, new feature set - likely to have significant teething pains.

 

[Agamar]

I wish I could get my hands on one of those... Wonder what the pricetag will be?

 

[m1ldslide1]

I read some about these on the website the other day, and it's pretty freakin' slick. I don't however see it messing up the 6500 line for quite some time. I think that the 6500 is road-mapped through the next decade, and the switching fabric isn't going to be hurting for bandwidth anytime soon. Compared to this behemoth, it's funny to think that a 6513 with Sup720 3BXL is suddenly going to be "mid-range".

There's also the issue of service modules. The 6500 is the only platform that supports FWSM, WiSM and all that other junk at the time being, and I didn't see that this 7000 will do the same. Maybe that will be the 6500's real niche in the future - service modules appended to the core or data center module.

And cmetz - why do you say that 12.4 sucks big time? I'm pretty sure I used 12.4 on a pair of 7206VXR routers I configured last year, and didn't notice any problems. In fact they supported full BGP internet routing tables in a multi-homed environment, plus OSPF and control plane policing without incident, and were screamin' fast. I haven't heard of IOS XR. Anything with an X in it is going to be awesome, right? Right?

 

[spidey07]

6500 will probably remain at the aggregation layer due to the application services as mentioned. The 7000 will most likely take over the core and access layers in the data center. And in the distribution layer where the 6500 is severely limited in 10 gig throughput.

Like everything else in the data center this thing is all about virtualization.

oh, and the sup720-3bxl is ancient. It's all about the VSS sup720 now.

 

[nightowl]

First off, the 6k is not going anywhere and will continue to be a very important part of the Cisco switch portfolio. Like Spidey said there are the service modules that have their place in the 6500. Also, with the Nexus 7000 being focused on the DC that is where its features will be. So if it works for your core switch then great, but chances are you will need features that are on the 6k. Also, the OS is based off of SAN-OS which runs the MDS line.

 

[cmetz]

m1ldslide1, 12.4 has severe, and I mean *severe* software quality problems, in my personal experience and professional opinion. I have had routing protocols, VPNs, and even just Ethernet interfaces' ability to move bits at all regress from working to not working when I've rolled out security-fix versions of 12.4 - and there have been an awful lot of those needed, too (and before spidey chastises me - yes, these were lab tested before deployment. Cisco's been doing silent hardware revs lately, with different hardware having very different code paths, so something works in the lab with the field device's config file and fails in the field because the hardware is different and the software's using a different code path. Thanks, Cisco!). And TAC is clueless. Several times I've just given TAC all the login info for the router and permission to load whatever image will fix the problem and make whatever config changes will fix the problem - and even with that they have failed to resolve problems. Bad bugs, very broken, can't fix it.

Of course, my Cisco sales team swears 12.4 is rock solid, they never hear of any other customers with problems, and they feign real concern and want TAC ticket numbers to follow up on. Sales people will be sales people, after all. And, you know, a lot of people hardly use any features and never actually apply security fixes, so it wouldn't surprise me if the needs of those users are met just fine.

My experience with IOS pre-12.3 was very good. Cisco's hardware has always been under-engineered, but everybody knows that. The software worked well enough, and if you found an actual bug, they'd actually fix it. I have always lab tested before deployment, but I have never been seriously burned by IOS deployment or upgrades in the past, because Cisco had pretty good coder quality and great QA. But recent products have been a much different story, and a complete depature from their past quality levels.

From what I've heard through the grapevine, I believe the problems with 12.4 are really a people problem, not a technical problem. Technical problems are much easier to get fixed. So I have little personal faith that 12.4 is going to fundamentally improve its quality, or that 12.5 will do so either. I've been personally so burned by 12.4 that I really am not interested in giving Cisco any benefit of the doubt on the subject. It's a competitive market, I've got choices, I'll choose the vendor who hasn't severely burned me, thanks.

That said, there are teams of very smart people inside Cisco. I'm hoping that the 7000 software was the product of one of those groups. Avoiding IOS at this point is a smart decision in my opinion, and so I'm hopeful. There are a lot of shops who will buy Cisco for the name, regardless of the cost, performance, quality, etc... so I need a Cisco big switch option I can recommend to those folks.

>There's also the issue of service modules

The 7000 just came out. It'll eventually pick up extra interfaces, and/or an adapter blade. Give these things some time.

 

[spidey07]

m1ldslide1 brought up the service modules and it's a great point. If the OS is based off the MDS line then here's my opinion...

It's a raw virtualized packet mover. The features look really good on it from that perspective but the 6500 will stay the application/advanced L7 capabilities switch. Architecturally that makes sense but it's the architecture of the 6500 that limits it in performance.

 

[nightowl]

Keep in mind that the 7000 is for the DC. It is not going to be the Swiss Army knife like the 6500 is. Also, the 7000 OS is definitely based off SAN-OS.

Spidey, I am curious why you say that the architecture of the 6500 is what limits its performance.

 

[spidey07]

10 gig performance. I just went through a high performance computing design based on what the clients do - they can and do push 1 gig and could handle more. Think 3d and engineering modeling where time = money. Think a thousand clients.

I worked with a lot of cisco switch architecture guys and we all agreed that it's limited for this kind of application. Don't get me started on the cripled 6513.

 

[robmurphy]

Are Cisco looking to move the 7000 into the metro acccess or core markets in addition to the end customers.

Any chance we will see MEF standard 9 or 14 compliance for the 7000 series. At present in telecomms transmission ethernet services are what most telco customers are interested in.

The carriers have a different set of requirements to the end user so that would explain the different OS. Carriers need OAM, stats, ect. End users need some of these things but not in the same way.

Rob

 

[nightowl]

I agree that 10G capacity could be better on the 6k especially if you REALLY do need line rate performance. In your case, you have the requirement for a large number of 10G interfaces that can operate at or very close to line rate.

As far as the 6513, yes it is bastardized right now with the top 8 slots only having a single fabric connection. I always try to push people away from it where possible but it does have its places.

I do have a very good understanding of both switches' architectures as well as what is planned. It comes with the job.

 

[nightowl]

Originally posted by: robmurphy
Are Cisco looking to move the 7000 into the metro acccess or core markets in addition to the end customers.

Any chance we will see MEF standard 9 or 14 compliance for the 7000 series. At present in telecomms transmission ethernet services are what most telco customers are interested in.

The carriers have a different set of requirements to the end user so that would explain the different OS. Carriers need OAM, stats, ect. End users need some of these things but not in the same way.

Rob

Rob, All I can say is that it is focused on the DC for the foreseeable future. As for what is planned, who knows. I am sure the SP teams are looking at the 7000 and thinking of where it could possibly fit.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: nightowl
I agree that 10G capacity could be better on the 6k especially if you REALLY do need line rate performance. In your case, you have the requirement for a large number of 10G interfaces that can operate at or very close to line rate.

As far as the 6513, yes it is bastardized right now with the top 8 slots only having a single fabric connection. I always try to push people away from it where possible but it does have its places.

I do have a very good understanding of both switches' architectures as well as what is planned. It comes with the job.

Hell, we've probably met then. See ya at networkers. I'm the tall stocky pushy blond guy that likes to take everybody out for drinks afterwards.

 

[nightowl]

Spidey, I don't think we have met as I am up in Cincy and you are referring to the TMEs and PMs out in SJ. I very well may be out at Networkers this year. Not sure yet if I will be able to go. If you are ever up in the Cincy area I am sure we could have some good discussions about things. I do not make it down to Louisville much any more since I changed job roles but you probably know some of my counterparts down there.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm the tall stocky pushy blond guy that likes to take everybody out for drinks afterwards.

Val Kilmer??

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: RebateMonger

Originally posted by: spidey07
I'm the tall stocky pushy blond guy that likes to take everybody out for drinks afterwards.

Val Kilmer??

I've been told many times I look like the russian from Rocky 4. Go figure. Don't know if that is a compliment or an insult.

 

[RebateMonger]

Originally posted by: spidey07
I've been told many times I look like the russian from Rocky 4. Go figure. Don't know if that is a compliment or an insult.

I almost forgot about him. Dolph Lundgren, from Sweden. He actually has a Master's degree in Chemical Engineering, and a Fullbright Scholarship from MIT.