New car buying: Am I getting a good deal?

[AndrewR]

Went to the dealer last night and the final offer (last night, anyway) was $18,137 which he said was the invoice price. That seems to match the Edmunds data I found. The car is the SE model with the Sync package, alloy wheels (not the premium ones), driver's group, ABS, and automatic. With taxes, tag, and title, the price is $19,493.22. Minus rebates ($2500) and trade ($1000, 1999 Ford Ranger XLT), the final price is $15,993.22.

I talked to my Dad, since I've only bought a couple new cars, and he mentioned something about a "dealer holdback" which should allow them to go under invoice. Any suggestions on negotiation or comments on the pricing? Thanks in advance!

Should be buying tonight.

 

[Zenmervolt]

You're only getting $1,000 on a '99 Ranger XLT? How many miles, what engine, and 2WD or 4WD?

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

I feel almost sick to my stomach reading your post. You are kidding, right?

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less? Focus will be worth way less than half purchase in three years

Dealer holdback is how dealers get profit even if they sell at invoice, but apparently they are rarely willing to part with it and it's not a huge amount.

Even though you're getting this at invoice, you should be able to do a lot better, and they are certainly not throwing you any bones with $1k for that truck.

I just looked locally and found a auto 09 focus SE with 8k miles for $13,995 (that's asking price, not necessarily firm price). Another 09 with 7600 miles for 13,990. 08 with 13,800 for 12,995. Another 08 with 13,600 for 11,990.

 

[Chunkee]

tell them you will require an xtra 1500 for your trade in, or you walk.

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I feel almost sick to my stomach reading your post. You are kidding, right?

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less? Focus will be worth way less than half purchase in three years

Dealer holdback is how dealers get profit even if they sell at invoice, but apparently they are rarely willing to part with it and it's not a huge amount.

Even though you're getting this at invoice, you should be able to do a lot better, and they are certainly not throwing you any bones with $1k for that truck.

I just looked locally and found a auto 09 focus SE with 8k miles for $13,995 (that's asking price, not necessarily firm price). Another 09 with 7600 miles for 13,990. 08 with 13,800 for 12,995. Another 08 with 13,600 for 11,990.

The 15.9k is the OTD price (including taxes and tag, etc). Thats not horrible, but I agree that you should ask for at least 2K for the the trade-in. If they won't budge, then sell the truck on your own for $2500 and then come back. $1000 trade for that is a rip-off unless is it seriously abused or has serious drivetrain issues.

 

[Gibson486]

I am confused...what kind of rebate is this? Unless this is a cashback offer, the rebates gets applied to the pretax amount. Also, invoice price is now a joke, especially at big dealerships.

Also, edmunds is kind of useless in terms of price (do you blame them?....all their ads are from the car makers)....my gf bought her new car for $2k less than what edmunds said she should pay.

FYI....if you do not mind a boring vehicle with questionable interior, you could get a corolla for 14K OTD. That does not include the trade also.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I feel almost sick to my stomach reading your post. You are kidding, right?

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less? Focus will be worth way less than half purchase in three years

Dealer holdback is how dealers get profit even if they sell at invoice, but apparently they are rarely willing to part with it and it's not a huge amount.

Even though you're getting this at invoice, you should be able to do a lot better, and they are certainly not throwing you any bones with $1k for that truck.

I just looked locally and found a auto 09 focus SE with 8k miles for $13,995 (that's asking price, not necessarily firm price). Another 09 with 7600 miles for 13,990. 08 with 13,800 for 12,995. Another 08 with 13,600 for 11,990.

The 15.9k is the OTD price (including taxes and tag, etc). Thats not horrible, but I agree that you should ask for at least 2K for the the trade-in. If they won't budge, then sell the truck on your own for $2500 and then come back. $1000 trade for that is a rip-off unless is it seriously abused or has serious drivetrain issues.

Reading comprehension was never my strongest suit 😉

 

[AndrewR]

I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

 

[exar333]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

Go for it. I just got my first new car recently, and I felt the same way. A used car is always a gamble, as you don't really know it was treated. If the price difference between a 1-2 year old car and a new one is not significant, sometimes the slightly higehr price is worth-it. Having the warranty lomnger, and knowing all that has been done to the car may be worth the price. It really depends on the type of car, and your situation though. I have had great luck with the 2 used cars I bought previously, so no bad experiences yet. 😛

 

[kalrith]

Just for future reference, always negotiate every part of an auto deal separately. First negotiate the purchase price. Once you're pleased with that, then you can mention that you have a trade in. Once you're satisfied with the amount for your trade in, then you can negotiate financing (if you need it from the dealer). The dealer wants to lump it all into one package. Even if he sells the car at invoice, he can still make a decent profit by lowballing your trade in or giving you a crappy financing deal. He shouldn't even know that you have a trade in and/or need financing until after you talk down the purchase price.

 

[Vette73]

Wash the truck and vacuum it out well. Then list it for $2200 on craigslist. Get probable $1800 or so. Then go to the dealer and make a deal without trade in. Most dealers don;t want trucks so they will probable not go much higher.

And look at the Fusion as already said.

 

[FDF12389]

I live five hours from you, and I would buy that ranger from you for more than 1000.

 

[Arkaign]

I agree with the sale of the Ranger private party. There is a great demand for good running vehicles in the sub-$3k mark, and something practical like a Ranger will sell quickly.

Other than that, I am an '08 Focus owner (1st year of this generation), and am very very pleased with the car. It hasn't let me down at all, the pluses are many, the only negatives I've found have been somewhat small, and all economy cars have compromises. The brakes are only average, the stock tires are abysmal (if you have the Hankooks, replace them, or see if the dealer can swap you for something better .. they're HORRIBLE in the rain, dangerously bad in fact), and the hard plastic on the glovebox and doors is easily scratched.

The Fusion is another fine candidate, it's a larger car with more family practicality, but returns worse fuel economy and performance (unless you opt for the 6-banger). The Focus automatic weighs in at 2600lbs, while the Fusion 4-cylinder weighs in at about 3200lbs, which means the extra 20hp of the Fusion doesn't really shine. They use the same Duratec motor, but the Focus comes in 2.0 form, while the Fusion is the 2.3L, a bit thirstier, as any Mazda3 owner can tell you. I usually net mid to low 30mpg combined in mostly city driving, and topped 40mpg on a long road trip at ~70mph+ speeds, inclines, luggage, a passenger, and A/C usage.

 

[iamwiz82]

Even the complete POS beater Rangers of that generation are going for almost $2,000 in my area. There are more than a few at $3,000+

 

[DeviousTrap]

Ignore this, I didn't read the OP's post completely.

What's the sticker (MSRP) of the focus that you're looking at?

The $2500 cash back you're mentioning is customer cash, so you subtract that from the price of the car prior to taxes, but after negotiation. The cash back depends on your region, looking at an ad of a local ford dealer they're showing a $16,215 Focus S and then they're offering $2,000 customer cash, $500 for financing with ford, and another $2016 off as a "dealer discount". So, after all is said and done they price of the car is about 4.5k under sticker for a total of $11,699.

You're obviously looking at a higher spec car than the one they're advertising, but how much are they knocking off the price of the car prior to the rebate? Also, as someone mentioned, you might as well look at a fusion. There's $3,500 in rebates on that and there should be about the same amount of room to negotiate as well.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ The Focus 'S' comes with rollup windows, no SYNC, and generally a manual transmission, 15" steelies, and no ABS. The SE can come with almost everything, depending on configuration, and SES are pretty much maxed out.

The price he listed above is pretty much in line with what to expect.

 

[DeviousTrap]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
^^ The Focus 'S' comes with rollup windows, no SYNC, and generally a manual transmission, 15" steelies, and no ABS. The SE can come with almost everything, depending on configuration, and SES are pretty much maxed out.

The price he listed above is pretty much in line with what to expect.

Yeah, I started writing that before seeing the $2,500 cash back as he had it listed after the TTL price. I guess I really can't see spending $15,637 on a focus when there are some many other cars that the money can buy. Since you seem to know about the Ford option packages, does the Fusion S have everything that's standard on the SE focus (minus the optional sync system)?

Edit > Something still doesn't seem right to me. I built an SE Focus on Ford.com and the only option packages are the Sync and Drivers Group. With the automatic and both of those packages the MSRP comes to $18,800. If that's the price of the car that the OP is buying he should be able to get more than $700 off of the sticker.

 

[Arkaign]

The Fusion 'S' is similarly stripped, and the SE Focus will have a lot more goodies, generally speaking, other than standard ABS and traction control for the new model. Forgot to mention, the 2010 Fusion changes the 2.3L to a 2.5L Duratec.

As for why a Focus, it is a very rewarding car to drive, if one likes the light/nimble feel. The chassis design is european, and it's very very light for the class. Most compacts are now in the 3,000lb area, with the Civic and Focus being the holdouts in the 2600lb range. My Focus S Coupe is the lightest, at 2550lbs. It also delivers quite amazing fuel economy, better than what's advertised in my experience.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

You're buying a focus... indulge?? /facepalm

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

Go for it. I just got my first new car recently, and I felt the same way. A used car is always a gamble, as you don't really know it was treated. If the price difference between a 1-2 year old car and a new one is not significant, sometimes the slightly higehr price is worth-it. Having the warranty lomnger, and knowing all that has been done to the car may be worth the price. It really depends on the type of car, and your situation though. I have had great luck with the 2 used cars I bought previously, so no bad experiences yet. 😛

Absolutely horseshit,
a car with 5-10K miles is for all practical purposes brand new. Tolerances in all moving parts will be within margin of error of a new car.

Moreover, the price of a used domestic econobox beater will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than brand new. Those cars depreciate like no other.

 

[Gibson486]

Originally posted by: DeviousTrap
Ignore this, I didn't read the OP's post completely.

What's the sticker (MSRP) of the focus that you're looking at?

The $2500 cash back you're mentioning is customer cash, so you subtract that from the price of the car prior to taxes, but after negotiation. The cash back depends on your region, looking at an ad of a local ford dealer they're showing a $16,215 Focus S and then they're offering $2,000 customer cash, $500 for financing with ford, and another $2016 off as a "dealer discount". So, after all is said and done they price of the car is about 4.5k under sticker for a total of $11,699.

You're obviously looking at a higher spec car than the one they're advertising, but how much are they knocking off the price of the car prior to the rebate? Also, as someone mentioned, you might as well look at a fusion. There's $3,500 in rebates on that and there should be about the same amount of room to negotiate as well.

customer cash back is usually applied as down payment....so that would be after taxes. Rebates are applied as a discount, so those would be before taxes. Yes, it is a complex thing, because i have seen dealers do this as well...but when you go to the manufacture website, it explains it all...it's funny seeing how some dealers do not read how their promotional programs are supposed to be applied.

edit: I also agree...something does not seem right at that price....

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

Go for it. I just got my first new car recently, and I felt the same way. A used car is always a gamble, as you don't really know it was treated. If the price difference between a 1-2 year old car and a new one is not significant, sometimes the slightly higehr price is worth-it. Having the warranty lomnger, and knowing all that has been done to the car may be worth the price. It really depends on the type of car, and your situation though. I have had great luck with the 2 used cars I bought previously, so no bad experiences yet. 😛

Absolutely horseshit,
a car with 5-10K miles is for all practical purposes brand new. Tolerances in all moving parts will be within margin of error of a new car.

Moreover, the price of a used domestic econobox beater will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than brand new. Those cars depreciate like no other.

halik speaks the truth. Who wouldn't take a year on a car plus 10k miles for a 25 or 30% reduction in purchase price?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

Go for it. I just got my first new car recently, and I felt the same way. A used car is always a gamble, as you don't really know it was treated. If the price difference between a 1-2 year old car and a new one is not significant, sometimes the slightly higehr price is worth-it. Having the warranty lomnger, and knowing all that has been done to the car may be worth the price. It really depends on the type of car, and your situation though. I have had great luck with the 2 used cars I bought previously, so no bad experiences yet. 😛

Absolutely horseshit,
a car with 5-10K miles is for all practical purposes brand new. Tolerances in all moving parts will be within margin of error of a new car.

Moreover, the price of a used domestic econobox beater will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than brand new. Those cars depreciate like no other.

halik speaks the truth. Who wouldn't take a year on a car plus 10k miles for a 25 or 30% reduction in purchase price?

While I agree with the sentiment, I did a check of the DFW Area (lots of Ford dealers) for 2008 Focus SE's, and most had 20-25k miles for $12-$14k (and you don't get all the new car incentives/rebates/etc, and still have to pay TTL + finance charges). The ones with under 10k miles were in the $13.5k+ range.

All in all, a $15k SE is not a bad deal, and there is a certain comfort knowing that the car hasn't been abused by a previous owner (or their 16-year-old taking it for a joyride).

 

[iamwiz82]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: ExarKun333

Originally posted by: AndrewR
I had looked up the BB on the truck awhile back and had a figure of $1200 in my head (it's in "Fair" condition, based on required suspension work and needing new tires), but I looked today and saw $1800 for the "Fair" price. Not sure where the previous price came from.

Anyway, I agree that the offer on the trade is too low, and I plan on asking for more on it. Given the condition, $500-1000 extra is a reasonable expectation.

Why in God's name are you looking to spend $19,500 on a focus when you can buy a barely-used 08 fusion for $7-8k less?

Gas mileage was the big consideration, but now that I look (mileage is nearly the same and considering the $3500 rebate Ford has on the '09 Fusion), I'm considering the Fusion. Crap, thought I had decided.

As for why I'm not buying used, it's a personal thing. I've had one new car in my life, and I had that for only 1 year before I was stationed overseas and had to sell it. I realize that it's not fiscally the wisest move, but I want to indulge a bit. 😉

Go for it. I just got my first new car recently, and I felt the same way. A used car is always a gamble, as you don't really know it was treated. If the price difference between a 1-2 year old car and a new one is not significant, sometimes the slightly higehr price is worth-it. Having the warranty lomnger, and knowing all that has been done to the car may be worth the price. It really depends on the type of car, and your situation though. I have had great luck with the 2 used cars I bought previously, so no bad experiences yet. 😛

Absolutely horseshit,
a car with 5-10K miles is for all practical purposes brand new. Tolerances in all moving parts will be within margin of error of a new car.

Moreover, the price of a used domestic econobox beater will be SIGNIFICANTLY lower than brand new. Those cars depreciate like no other.

halik speaks the truth. Who wouldn't take a year on a car plus 10k miles for a 25 or 30% reduction in purchase price?

While I agree with the sentiment, I did a check of the DFW Area (lots of Ford dealers) for 2008 Focus SE's, and most had 20-25k miles for $12-$14k (and you don't get all the new car incentives/rebates/etc, and still have to pay TTL + finance charges). The ones with under 10k miles were in the $13.5k+ range.

All in all, a $15k SE is not a bad deal, and there is a certain comfort knowing that the car hasn't been abused by a previous owner (or their 16-year-old taking it for a joyride).

When you say $15k you really mean $17k though. It's $15,900 after trade in, that makes it $16,900.

 

[Arkaign]

Good point. I wonder what the real numbers would be?

While I like the idea of letting someone else take a massive depreciation hit, I just don't see it with the Focus. They seem to hold value pretty good compared to Cobalts, for example.

$13.5k for a 2008 with 25k miles vs. $16.9k for a 2009 with 0k miles, I'd pay the extra little bit to get a fresh car with a fresh warranty.

What would make sense is if one could find one in his local area with ~5k miles for $13k or so.