New Camaro SS Nurburgring Time

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
Do you think that anyone who's going to buy this car cares about a time at a track in a foreign country?

IDK, but I'd have to bet a decent number of folks started looking at the Cobalt SS harder after that blistering time (for its class) that it put down.

 

[PricklyPete]

depressing that a car twice its price beat it...how is that depressing? A time of 8:20 is nothing to scoff at.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
depressing that a car twice its price beat it...how is that depressing? A time of 8:20 is nothing to scoff at.

Well, I didn't mention the CTS-V time, and that does seem silly to compare to. The Camaro SS will probably cost in the range of $35k out the door, so for it to put up an 8:20 vs. the Cobalt SS ($23kish?) at 8:22 just isn't very impressive. Particularly considering that the 'Ring has some serious high-speed segments where that 420HP should be able to stretch the legs.

Just looking at how close the times are, I'd imagine that the Camaro really gets cooking on the high-speed segments, and just gets totally owned on the twisties.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: TehMac
Ok, I see your point, but still, the Caddy is expensive because its a fast, semi-comfortable sports saloon. The Camaro is a frickin Muscle/Pony/Sports Coupe. It's supposed to be light(er) and hence fast(er).

The Camaro is not a small sports car...it is a muscle car....which does not generally equate to low weight. Not to mention it is built on the saloon car platform that the Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8 is built on.

All that being said...8:20 is a fast time...especially for a $35K car.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: PricklyPete
depressing that a car twice its price beat it...how is that depressing? A time of 8:20 is nothing to scoff at.

Well, I didn't mention the CTS-V time, and that does seem silly to compare to. The Camaro SS will probably cost in the range of $35k out the door, so for it to put up an 8:20 vs. the Cobalt SS ($23kish?) at 8:22 just isn't very impressive. Particularly considering that the 'Ring has some serious high-speed segments where that 420HP should be able to stretch the legs.

Just looking at how close the times are, I'd imagine that the Camaro really gets cooking on the high-speed segments, and just gets totally owned on the twisties.

It's not that the Camaro SS is slow...it is that the Cobalt SS is a serious bargain. It also has the interior of a $12K Korean car...they are not in the same class and are not marketed to the same groups. the Cobalt SS is marketed to people who will completely customize their car...the Camaro...not so much.

What other sub $35K cars make 8:20 or even close times? My point is just that we might be a bit unreasonable in judging the Camaro just because the Cobalt SS is a freak and a seriously good bargain. I'd guarantee you that most people who would cross shop the two would quickly take the Camaro for the benefits you get from that added weight.

 

[Arkaign]

That's a very fair assessment. And it is somewhat fitting that the Camaro is fulfilling a muscle car role, while not being extremely poor at handling. It it just a little disheartening to see it so fat. Hell, the 4-door 2009 Nissan Maxima, a large car by any reasonable standard, and loaded with the latest safety and comfort gizmos (of the sub-premium market) only tips the scales at ~3500lbs, even with the heavy VQ motor.

 

[TehMac]

Well, I would abstain from getting a Camaro. I'd wait til they release a few Camaros with the 550hp Corvette engines, although I doubt that'll be anytime soon.


I don't think the suspension killed it, the suspension was fairly good, independent suspension and all that.

 

[punjabiplaya]

Well, in the Nov Motor Trend they said not to compare it to a Mustang in ride quality and handling, but to a g37.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: punjabiplaya
Well, in the Nov Motor Trend they said not to compare it to a Mustang in ride quality and handling, but to a g37.

I wouldn't expect the G37 to put up a 8:20 'Ring time either, but 8:30 or so wouldn't surprise me. It's not sporting a 420HP V8

 

[Cobalt]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: bananapeel42
The car isn't designed to run with corvette's around a track... it's not a track car at all for that matter and they aren't touting it as such.

What does that Challenger SRT-8 run? Compare it to that I guess.

Well, I'd agree to a certain level. But I do think it's a big weak spot in GM's new 21st century image. Why even test it on the Nurburgring? The Cobalt SS comes within striking distance, and it's a 4-banger FWD econobox.

In retrospect, it would have been wise for Chevy to have focused on keeping the pork down on this one, it looks to have hurt terribly.

Also : "explained that the Nurburging track sessions helped engineers determine the best tire, steering and suspension settings for the car[/b] ? all of which improve more mundane public road driving as well. The engine was the stock standard 6.2L L99 V8 rated at 422hp (314kW) and 408lb-ft (553Nm) of torque.

All 2010 Camaro models, both V6 and V8, feature the latest StabiliTrak stability control system, while the SS also gets the same computer controlled active handling system as the Corvette. Owners will be able to select a special track mode in the SS, which can fully disable the car?s electronic stability and traction control. An additional feature is a special launch control mode for the manual models. "

^^ Sounds like they did want this thing to perform decently on a circuit.

Dodge are all garbage outside of the Viper, sadly.

Camaro is Chevrolet which is owned by GM. Dodge is Chrysler.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ I know that. I was responding to the last part of the post I was quoting, regarding Dodge. Hope that makes it more clear. I don't think all GM is garbage, not even close.

 

[PricklyPete]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
^^ I know that. I was responding to the last part of the post I was quoting, regarding Dodge. Hope that makes it more clear. I don't think all GM is garbage, not even close.

And I thorougly agree with Arkaign on his statement. All Chrysler and Dodge products absolutely suck outside of the Viper. I could go on and on about how much I despise Chrysler products after having to drive nearly every model they make over the last year.

Dodge Avenger = Crap
Dodge Journey = Crap
Dodge Caravaon = Mostly Crap
Dodge Caliber = Crap
Dodge Charger = Mostly Crap
Dodge Challenger = on the verge of not being crap because of its looks...but still crap
Dodge Ram = well actually this is reasonably good...but I'll just say crap to drive my point home
Dodge Durango = Fat Crap
Dodge midsize pickup whose name I can't remember because it is forgettable = Crap
Chrysler 300 = mostly Crap
Chyrsler Town and Country = Mostly Crap
Chrysler Pacifica (is this monstrosity still in production?) = Crap
Chrysler PT Cruiser = SUPER Crap
Chrysler Sebring = Even crappier than the Avenger because you think it might not be crap...but really is some serious crap
Chrysler Crossfire = Tries...but still crap

Dodge Viper = actually quite awesome even if it is the technological equivalent of a huge engine with 4 enormous wheels attached to it.

 

[Arkaign]

^^ LoL PP. Nice list! I agree wholeheartedly, and to be fair, the Ram is a decent truck.

The Viper is an icon, and has a very interesting history. Whatever happens to Chrysler, the Viper will remain legendary.

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by: melchoir

Originally posted by: Pariah

Yes, it does suck that a 1998-02 LS1 Fbody will probably run very similiar 1/4 times to the new Camaro, but the new Camaro's suspension ( IRS ) plus other major refinements have been made, so I am going to bet it'll be a great overall platform for the price.

Let's not forget, that for the old Fbody, build quality and ride quality were complete garbage. Though I haven't ridden in a new Camaro, if other recent GM releases are any indication it should be light years more comfortable to live with everyday and not have a dozen rattles and things falling off before you even make it out of the new car lot like the Fbodys.

While the interior might not be anything to write home about, there are a LOT of people that find the cockpit of the 98-02 Camaros quite nice for usability. Most prefer the Trans Am interior for the better seats. As for ride quality, it's really about what I'd expect out of a live axle car. Build quality, sure, panel gaps galore. Pieces of the car falling off? I've never seen that, and I've been pretty deep into the F-body underworld.

The most disappointing thing about the new 5th gen, is what I've posted before. I'm not seeing this car be any quicker than the LS1 (98-02) cars.

I'm not referring to the layout of the interior. I'm talking about the quality of materials and build quality in general. Both were garbage. Granted, that describes the vast majority of the Big 3 vehicles in that time frame, but that isn't an excuse when comparing it to the current Camaro. Stock vs stock, there probably isn't going to be a significant difference in straightline performance. Who cares? It's a much better car. Being LS3 based, should give it access to a very large aftermarket. So if you want it faster, you won't be short of options.

The GTO is a well known 'pig' as far as weight goes. However; the number that was circling the GTO forums was the shipping weight of the car in comparison to other cars 'curb weights'.

Comparing curb wieght to curb weight or shipping weight to shipping weight is the only way to compare. A real result though is having the car actually weighed.

Plenty of people have weighed their GTO, and it is well established to weigh in the 3750lbs range with an empty tank and no driver. A gallon of gas and driver are going to weigh the same no matter what car you put them in, so I don't know why it would matter how you decided to compare weight as long as the conditions were the same.

I didn't see you listing any cars with 400HP under $40k that weigh less than the Camaro. Did I miss it?

 

[Arkaign]

The 2008 GT500 has 500HP/480TQ, weighs 3900lbs, and costs $42.9k .. pretty close I guess.

 

[TehMac]

So basically, all the cool new cars suck big fat cocks now.


This is a really uplifting conversation.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: PricklyPete

Originally posted by: Arkaign
^^ I know that. I was responding to the last part of the post I was quoting, regarding Dodge. Hope that makes it more clear. I don't think all GM is garbage, not even close.

And I thorougly agree with Arkaign on his statement. All Chrysler and Dodge products absolutely suck outside of the Viper. I could go on and on about how much I despise Chrysler products after having to drive nearly every model they make over the last year.

Dodge Avenger = Crap
Dodge Journey = Crap
Dodge Caravaon = Mostly Crap
Dodge Caliber = Crap
Dodge Charger = Mostly Crap
Dodge Challenger = on the verge of not being crap because of its looks...but still crap
Dodge Ram = well actually this is reasonably good...but I'll just say crap to drive my point home
Dodge Durango = Fat Crap
Dodge midsize pickup whose name I can't remember because it is forgettable = Crap
Chrysler 300 = mostly Crap
Chyrsler Town and Country = Mostly Crap
Chrysler Pacifica (is this monstrosity still in production?) = Crap
Chrysler PT Cruiser = SUPER Crap
Chrysler Sebring = Even crappier than the Avenger because you think it might not be crap...but really is some serious crap
Chrysler Crossfire = Tries...but still crap

Dodge Viper = actually quite awesome even if it is the technological equivalent of a huge engine with 4 enormous wheels attached to it.

I like my turbo neon

 

[TehMac]

I am interested in the Dodge Challenger SRT-8.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: TehMac
I am interested in the Dodge Challenger SRT-8.

All that power... yet so slow. Bleh

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: TehMac
I am interested in the Dodge Challenger SRT-8.

All that power... yet so slow. Bleh

Yeah, 6.1L V8 and it turns out...425 hp.


How does that fucking work? How do you get a fucking huge ass engine like that and get that measly sum? That's just fucked up.


Links on the SRT-8's time?

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: TehMac

Originally posted by: crazySOB297

Originally posted by: TehMac
I am interested in the Dodge Challenger SRT-8.

All that power... yet so slow. Bleh

Yeah, 6.1L V8 and it turns out...425 hp.


How does that fucking work? How do you get a fucking huge ass engine like that and get that measly sum? That's just fucked up.


Links on the SRT-8's time?

0-60 ~5 seconds
1/4 ~13.5

It's ok. I think a lot of my distatste for it is having driven a charger srt-8. The thing was so loose feeling. I was just overall unimpressed.

 

[TehMac]

Well was it an SRT-8 or a Challenger R/T ?


And were you driving an auto gearbox? Because auto gearboxes are going to make any car seem shitty.

 

[EightySix Four]

Originally posted by: TehMac
Well was it an SRT-8 or a Challenger R/T ?


And were you driving an auto gearbox? Because auto gearboxes are going to make any car seem shitty.

My stock C5 felt faster with it's auto.

SRT-8, the handling felt nasty, it couldn't stay "flat" and I honestly didn't feel like the car responded to me under all it's heft. Then again, as I said, at the time I had a C5 which I was comparing it to so maybe I expected to much from a four door.

 

[Pariah]

Manual is not an option for Chargers.

 

[TehMac]

Originally posted by: Pariah
Manual is not an option for Chargers.

Yes it is, its an option for the 2009 SRT-8 Challenger, and the 2009 is coming with all sorts of goodies, so maybe we can expect an improvement yet.

The '09 SRT8 is virtually identical to its '08 counterpart, with the main difference being the choice of either a 5-speed automatic or a 6-speed manual transmission. Standard features include big Brembo brakes, a special suspension, bi-xenon headlamps, heated leather sport seats, keyless go, Sirius satellite radio, and 20-inch forged aluminum wheels in addition to most amenities offered on the lower R/T and SE grades like air conditioning and cruise control.[14] In addition, the 2009 will have a true "limited slip" differential.

Wikipedia Entry Quotation Came From

As for the auto versus manual: I'm sure the Corvette's auto gearbox is nice, but I sort of doubt the same is true with a car that's probably half the price.

Also, and this is personal, I prefer manual 100% to automatic gearboxes, the shifts are too early, torque can't build up, and its just unengaging. With a manual I feel far more connected, but hey, I guess it's not for everyone.