New Build, pure games machine, several key questions

[jinitiator]

Hi all, as requested, the default info!

1. PC usage: Games machine, plain and simple.
2. Max spend £1100
3. All parts sourced from United Kingdom in pounds sterling
4. No brand preference, I'm just loyal to performance (which atm I guess means intel/nvidia)
5. All brand new parts
6. I have read around this and have a decent idea of the fundamental issues, but want the true experts to weigh in
7. I will be conducting a moderate overclock

Ok all, so far I'm looking at this build:

CPU: Intel E8400 or Q6600
Mobo: evga 680i, or asus striker extreme 680i
RAM: OCZ ReaperX HPC 4GB(2 x 2GB) DDR2 800 4-4-3-15
GFX: nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS 512mb
Case: antec p182
PSU: something quiet between 600-750w (open to advice based on build)
HSF: Thermalright ultra 120 extreme
HDD 1: WD raptor 150gb
HDD 2: Any 500gb approx SATA hard drive, for basic storage (video, music etc), welcome recommendations.

My key issues:

Low clock Quad vs High clock dual - Ok, this is a gaming machine plain and simple, there may be some light dvd ripping or whatever, but the time/care spent on this will pale in comparison to the amount it will be used for games. I'm not going to be running background tasks while I game, and I'm led to believe that games hardly take advantage of dual, let alone quad cores. Given these facts, I'm assuming it is better to go for the dual core, high clock penryn and boost it even further with a moderate overclock, correct?

Chipset Choice - Again, it's a games machine, and I'm not going to be thinking of replacing anything fundamental inside it until the Nehalem is well and truly established. The only performance boosting step I may take is in the graphics department, and I'm thinking the best way to give a shot to performance is to chuck in another 8800gts down the line for SLI if I need it, and when the prices are lower. This should easily tide me over until nehalem is out and I have a need to replace the entire system. Anyone see an issue with this?

Taking P35 or X38 would provide me with support for penryn quad cores, but do I really care given the nature of the system and that I'm not going to upgrade again until Nehalem? 780i will give me the same support that I don't think I need, plus tri-sli, but hey, I'm not made of enough cash that I can really consider 3 gfx cards.

If I went for a non SLI capable setup and found that in 6 months time I needed more performance, I'd basically have no option other than to replace the CPU or replace the gfx card with a beefier version, meaning I've wasted the money on the first card. Also, who knows when nvidia will actually get around to bringing out their true next gen products that would provide a significant performance gain for reasonable prices.

I know I could go crossfire, but I don't consider ATI to be a good bet performance wise given that nvidia is slapping it around right now and for the forseeable future.

This seems to leave me with one logical choice, 680i (or 780i if prices/performance are not hugely different)

Overclocking - I've never done it before, but I've read extensively around it. I'm not mad on going for the max I can possibly get, but I'd like a nice OC, 3.0 - 3.4 for the Q6600, or who knows what for the E8400, 4.0+? I've read that the 680i is a great chipset for overclocking (though I'm sure some people will disagree), but I'm guessing I need to hit 450+ fsb for the figures I'm looking at (esp if I go for the e8400), can anyone say whether there is a significantly better choice than 680i or the mobos I mention for achieving this given my other points?

To conclude - I'm hugely grateful for anyone who's willing to offer their input; I'm primarily interested in hearing your opinions on the key issues, but if anyone has killer suggestions about any other aspect of the build, I'm very keen to hear them.

Cheers!

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: jinitiator
New Build, pure games machine

Windows XP Pro

 

[BlueAcolyte]

Why not crossfire? The HD 3870 is very good plus you get the benefit of the X38 chipset. It also has better Crossfire scaling than an 8800GT SLi does.

Penryn would be a good choice, most games will soon support dual threads (I hope, at least) but you may want a quad-core if you run background apps. Since this is a gaming machine and you will upgrade in a year or two, future-proof isn't too important so I think you should get the dual.

Windows XP is the OS of choice, but the drivers for Vista are getting better + you get the benefit of 64BIT... If you can put up with Vista.

That OCZ RAM... I don't trust it. How about this GSkill stuff? It costs the same and runs at higher speed. Most people say they can set the timings down to 4-4-4-12 to match your OCZ.

[L]http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231145[/L]

It may be from the US, but I don't think it would be too hard to get some from the UK... GSkill is Asia-based after all.

 

[jinitiator]

Well, crossfire is an option, but I can't afford to go dual gfx card for a while yet, and whilst I'm running a single card setup, the 8800 gts 512mb is going to be quite a lot faster. What benefits do you see me getting from the x38 chipset if I'm not going to be moving to quad core penryn?

 

[DSF]

Originally posted by: jinitiator
Well, crossfire is an option, but I can't afford to go dual gfx card for a while yet, and whilst I'm running a single card setup, the 8800 gts 512mb is going to be quite a lot faster. What benefits do you see me getting from the x38 chipset if I'm not going to be moving to quad core penryn?

Well the X38 chipset supports crossfire. I'm pretty sure that's why he recommended it. It'll also be better for overclocking quads than the 680i chipset.

Honestly, dual-graphics card setups aren't the most savvy upgrade paths. By the time you're looking to put a second card in, there's a newer model out. Performance scaling is still low enough that adding a second card isn't close enough to a next-gen card to make it worthwhile.

You can save $50-100 up front by buying a solid P35 motherboard instead of an Nvidia chipset one. Combine that with the money you get selling your 8800GT when the time comes, and buying a new graphics card is really no more expensive than SLi, and the performance is certainly better. All told, it might even be less expensive.

Going with a single graphics card will also save you money on the PSU, since you can comfortably go with something in the 400-500W range.

Speaking of saving money, you might consider dropping the Raptor. For the price you're paying for your two drives, you could get a single 1TB drive which would be just about the same performance as the Raptor and increase your storage capacity.

 

[angry hampster]

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=689&p=0

Frankly if you're not going Penryn and you don't plan on doing Crossfire, a P35 is likely your best choice, not to mention that p35 boards can be had for quite cheap (less than $100).

 

[jinitiator]

I see what you mean about the P35, could well be that I don't buy another card at all, or I buy a replacement single card so from that angle it's worth investigating. I did a bit of looking around however and I cannot find some of the better p35 boards for sale anywhere...no luck on the asus blitz formula, ditto the gigabyte GA p35-dq6. Any suggestions in the absence of these?

 

[jkresh]

780i is nice and so far it seems to be good for overclocking quads, (I am fully prime stable at 3.6 on my q6600 under water with 1.4v actual with my evga board, and with my old 975 asus I could only hit about 3.1 at the same voltage). I can post at 4ghz (9 * 450) with the board and even boot windows but prime fails in about 15 minutes (even if I push to 1.5v actual) and I don't want to go much higher then that. Also fully stable at 8 * 450, so if you want to overclock a quad and want sli support then 780i is a good choice (680i is a great overclocker for dual's but not so much for quads, p35 and x38 are much better then 680i with quads and seem to be about the same as 780i (still to early to completely judge the platform but so far so good)).

 

[jinitiator]

Thanks for the input so far all, it's good stuff. I'm currently working under the following two rules:

- I will not be using quad core until I build a nehalem machine
- If I need a performance boost between this build and my nehalem build, I'll either be buying a new GPU (if ati or nvidia gets decent next gen stuff out soonish), or dropping in another card for SLI

Given these facts, it seems to me that 680i is the choice that offers me the best upgradeability, and is cheaper than 780i which brings features I don't need.

With regards to the hard drive that was mentioned by user DSF, if I'm looking at big disks, are there any particular brands I should go for or avoid?

 

[Blain]

Originally posted by: jinitiator
With regards to the hard drive that was mentioned by user DSF, if I'm looking at big disks, are there any particular brands I should go for or avoid?

Well, DSF advocates 1TB HDs.
There are only 4 manufacturers that produce 1TB SATA HDs at this time...
> Western Digital <
* seagate
* hitachi
* samsung

My wife has WD stock in her IRA... BUY THE Western Digital HD! :laugh:

 

[bob4432]

my suggestions are this -

don't get sucked into any "gamer" marketing

since you are going to be building a gaming rig, the most important item will be gpu, followed by ram amount and then cpu w/ ram timings last.

i see no reason not to pick up something like a gigabyte p35 board (yes the ~$100 one), put in a 8800gt gpu, something like a 6750 or equivalent, a good quality 430-450W psu (you don't need 600-700W - here is info to back up what i say), some decent (at least 2GB) ddr2-800 ram (don't pay extra for the stupid marketing like sli certified ram and bullshit like that) and if you need it a sound card. this will work just as good as you spending a lot of $$$ on "gaming gimmicks" based products.