New build, I would appreciate some help

[Skaz]

Hey Guys,

A friend referred me here who's been kind enough to help me focus down a new computer build. I'd like it to run by you pros. I hear you're the experts.

So far, we're looking at the following components and aiming for $1500:

GIGABYTE GA-965P-DS3
Intel Core 2 Duo E6300 Conroe
2GB of CORSAIR XMS2 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
1 Sapphire X1950XTX
1 Thermaltake 600W PSU

1 WD Raptor 36.7Gig 10,000 RPM

1 NEC 18X DVD±R

All wrapped up in a Silver Fishing Boat. Don't laugh. Ok, laugh!!*laughs*


Guys, I've been out of the loop for about two years. The last system I put together from scratch was a 1.4 Thunderbird and it's done me well. I love it, but it can't do the job anymore and I love to game. I get about 30FPS in 2142, maybe 40 in CS Source, and my settings are always on the lowest. I'm looking for something that'll last me as long as this old space heater has lasted me, and something I'll love just as much.

At this point, I know I need a solid heatsink. I'm not familiar enough with water cooling to start messing around with that, so that leaves classic fan and fins. What do you guys suggest? What should I be aware of? Has anyone worked with this die? If so, how fragile/sturdy is it?

Will this case be enough space to work with the card? Would the card get in the way of the RAM? Does everything seem to mesh for you guys as well?

I'm sure more questions will pop into my head for later, but for now, what do you guys suggest?

 

[realtrance]

The only thing that strikes me as a bit odd in the list is the Biostar mobo. Perhaps you've seen a good review of it? Or have been somewhere where it's generally considered a good motherboard?

More than anything else, and especially these days, I'd thoroughly research all the info you can find on the motherboard you choose. Even some of the previously well-known names -- Abit, ASUS, for example -- have been producing motherboards recently that have been fraught with mystery, shal we say.

Choosing the right motherboard will make a difference between lots of seemingly insurmountable headaches, and a smooth build. Take your time on that one.

Make sure the Seagate disk is a 7200.10 series, not 7200.9, I've heard reports of reliability issues with the latter.

That is all.

 

[PotatoSandWitch]

I'm a noobie but if I were you I'd cut down on the graphics a little.. probably get an SLI mobo and purchase a BFG 7600GT for 113 (edit: forgot the LINK) and get another one once I really needed it. Value cards like that one have amazing price to performance ratio...
of course you might want only the toppest notch visuals in your games, but you don't have to have a 500 dollar card to have awesome graphics

the highlight is probably the amazing case though. Probably the highest tech looking thing I've ever seen.

 

[Skaz]

Originally posted by: realtrance
The only thing that strikes me as a bit odd in the list is the Biostar mobo. Perhaps you've seen a good review of it? Or have been somewhere where it's generally considered a good motherboard?

Make sure the Seagate disk is a 7200.10 series, not 7200.9, I've heard reports of reliability issues with the latter.

His choice/suggestion of the mobo. Haven't reviewed it myself actually. Still reading a rather large article on the board/cpu.

The Seagate is indeed a 7200.10 series drive. I was not aware of the issue before I posted, so I didn't think anything of the extra designation. Thanks!!

Originally posted by: PotatoSandWitch
I'm a noobie but if I were you I'd cut down on the graphics a little.. probably get an SLI mobo and purchase a BFG 7600GT for 113 (edit: forgot the LINK) and get another one once I really needed it. Value cards like that one have amazing price to performance ratio...
of course you might want only the toppest notch visuals in your games, but you don't have to have a 500 dollar card to have awesome graphics

the highlight is probably the amazing case though. Probably the highest tech looking thing I've ever seen.

I don't mind paying for the card if it's going to be a good long term investment. Also, the GTS is DX10 capable, while none of the 7000 series are. The lack of DX10 capability is my only gripe for the 1950. If the 1950 was DX10 capable, it would be a clear choice.


What advantages does SLI give over non-SLI or Crossfire?

 

[PhoenixOrion]

I would reconsider the mobo and go for the same chipset 965 but one that can be compatible with quad-core with a simple bios flash. This should give you a better "future-proof" roadmap for your platform. Check gigabyte's S3 ver. 2 and I think you can get it for additional $20 over your budget.

For a non-sli rig, I would look at other PSU instead of thermaltake. Check out seasonic's S12-500 and S12-600 or OCZ's gamexstream 600 or even 700W, will be good when you venture into overclocking your conroe CPU down the road.

 

[Araemo]

Originally posted by: realtrance
The only thing that strikes me as a bit odd in the list is the Biostar mobo. Perhaps you've seen a good review of it? Or have been somewhere where it's generally considered a good motherboard?

I'll come clean as the friend who 'recommended' this. I haven't done the research yet either, this was my list I built up to get a rough idea of pricing for him. The motherboard choice was completely based on the anandtech core 2 duo overclocking article, they got the 6300 OC'd to 3.5Ghz on that board. I'd definitely agree with the below: Compatibility and stability can very GREATLY between motherboards, and that will make or break a great computer.

Edit: I also did a quick search on newegg for p965 based boards w/ the features he said he wanted and I consider 'bare minimums', no Abit, ASUS, or DFI motherboards came up. That could be due to newegg's sometimes spotty motherboard selection, I just made this list up in about 30 minutes earlier today, so it is definitely subject to change.

More than anything else, and especially these days, I'd thoroughly research all the info you can find on the motherboard you choose. Even some of the previously well-known names -- Abit, ASUS, for example -- have been producing motherboards recently that have been fraught with mystery, shal we say.

Choosing the right motherboard will make a difference between lots of seemingly insurmountable headaches, and a smooth build. Take your time on that one.

Do you guys have any other motherboard suggestions that can take the core 2 duo's to extreme overclocking heights on air?

 

[Skaz]

Originally posted by: PhoenixOrion
I would reconsider the mobo and go for the same chipset 965 but one that can be compatible with quad-core with a simple bios flash. This should give you a better "future-proof" roadmap for your platform. Check gigabyte's S3 ver. 2 and I think you can get it for additional $20 over your budget.

For a non-sli rig, I would look at other PSU instead of thermaltake. Check out seasonic's S12-500 and S12-600 or OCZ's gamexstream 600 or even 700W, will be good when you venture into overclocking your conroe CPU down the road.

I have a three plus year old Antec 550W PSU with fan controller (in a 5.25" bay) that I've been most pleased with. Do you think another Antec would be a solid choice?

Digging through Gigabyte S3 V2 motherboards now. Thanks!!

 

[PhoenixOrion]

The antec trio is something to look into. But at this price point, I would also look into Fortron (FSP) 450 to 600 watt versions, single 120mm fans. Although their fans do speed up during load and not as quiet as the seasonics or corsairs.

 

[pkme2]

Good luck with your build. You got PM.

You can really get a really good rig for $1500 if you start with a good case and solid PSU. Checkout the motherboard tab on top of page. Anandtech has some good info.

 

[Ruptga]

Any particular reason you're going with DDR instead of DDR2?

If DX10 is an issue for ya, you might want to get an X1650pro or 7600GT/S to tide you over until the R600 cards launch, then you'll have lower price points for all DX10 cards and the R600 cards will probably smoke the 8xxxs. (8800GTX has 128 scalar unified shaders, R600 will have 64 SIMD unified shaders that can each do four things at a time, ideally equivalent to 256 scalar shaders.)

 

[Skaz]

Originally posted by: ADDAvenger
Any particular reason you're going with DDR instead of DDR2?

If DX10 is an issue for ya, you might want to get an X1650pro or 7600GT/S to tide you over until the R600 cards launch, then you'll have lower price points for all DX10 cards and the R600 cards will probably smoke the 8xxxs. (8800GTX has 128 scalar unified shaders, R600 will have 64 SIMD unified shaders that can each do four things at a time, ideally equivalent to 256 scalar shaders.)

Would you mind linking me the DDR2 you speak of?

I might just settle for the 1950 for now and see if DX10 is worth upgrading later. It's all a coin toss.

 

[Araemo]

Skaz, those motherboards all require DDR2 as far as I know. DDR2 generally has higher latencies than you're used to with DDR1, but I think all the good core 2 duo boards require DDR2.

 

[Skaz]

Revised build. I have an 80Gig PATA that's currently in use on this computer, and an 80Gig USB2.0 HDD also in use. Both can be moved over and I can put an old 5Gig HDD in this box, so I went ahead and dropped the 320Gig HD for now. I can pick it up later, and prices will only fall.

Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-965P-S3
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6300
RAM: Crucial Ballistic 2GB DDR2 1000
GFX: Sapphire Radeon X1950XTX
PSU: SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650
HDD: WD Raptor 36.7G 10,000 RPM
HSK: Thermaltake Big Typhoon
Optical: NEC Silver 18X DVD Burner

Case: Silver Fishing Boat.

End Price: $1,589.92

 

[Araemo]

One thing about that ram worries me:

The ram is rated 2.2V according to newegg, and the motherboard has this note:

Notice: Only DDR2-800 memory supporting JEDEC approved 1.8V operation with timings of 5-5-5 or 6-6-6 is supported on Intel Desktop Boards based on Intel 965 Express Chipsets.

Anyone have any input on that? What is good overclocking ram that supports the P965 boards?

 

[realtrance]

Best next things to do re: mobo and RAM:

1. Review the website for the Gigabyte motherboard; see if they have a list of recommended RAM that is compatible with their board.
2. Research the RAM they suggest, on review sites, here at Anandtech, and at the RAM makers' own websites, particularly if they have Forums associated with their site. Don't believe any particular user's praise or scorn, but get a general feel for whether there's a consistent issue with the RAM you're considering, or not.
3. Look for best price on the RAM, but from a reputable dealer with a flexible return policy, if you can find that. A lot of companies don't allow return of RAM for incompatibility reasons (i.e. you'll only be able to get the RAM replaced with the same type if it's defective in some way, not for another type). If you can find a local store that has a flexible policy, consider splurging the extra few bucks for the freedom of being able to get different RAM, or a full refund, if your choice doesn't work out. Even with all the research, there can be compatibility issues.
4. Once you've got this all figured out, make sure you've seen ample evidence from end users of success with this motherboard/RAM combination. There can even be slight revision changes that can cause problems.

That's probably all making it scarier sounding than it really is. I took the chance of putting OCZ RAM on an ASUS P2B motherboard, for instance, despite it not being on ASUS' compatibility list for the board, primarily because I'd had good luck with that combination in the past, with an ASUS P2AD-E, so I figured I'd roll the dice again, and lucked out. BUT: if you get the wrong combination, without doing the research, you're really on your own and if it doesn't work out, your solution may well be you'll have to buy more RAM. If you have to wait for an RMA from an online company, and for that cycle to complete, you could be running into not being able to really test all the hardware you've purchased running together within the 30-day grace period for returns and refunds.

So, it's best to do a little research first, to save yourself a lot of potential grief and frustration.

 

[Ruptga]

Originally posted by: Araemo
Skaz, those motherboards all require DDR2 as far as I know. DDR2 generally has higher latencies than you're used to with DDR1, but I think all the good core 2 duo boards require DDR2.

As I understand it, DDR2 has to wait for more clock cycles, but because it spits out more clock cycles than DDR it's not a true comparision. What I mean is, DDR2 with 4-4-4 latencies has to wait for the same period of chronological time as DDR with 2-2-2 latencies waits (assuming we're comparing DDR2 800 and DDR 400.) Different number of clock cycles go by, but it's the same actual time in nanoseconds.

 

[Cynicist]

If you want to OC that processor, replace the biostar with this board. I could show you some examples of what people reach with similar setups. Also replace the TT psu with this seasonic, a slightly more expensive but much more reliable solution.

Anyone have any input on that? What is good overclocking ram that supports the P965 boards?

This stuff is insane, though its a little pricey.


I'd also recommend this heatsink

 

[Skaz]

Really appreciate all the inputs guys. I'm poring over all this as fast as I can as I watch parts quickly go out of stock. D:



I upgraded to the All-Solid Capacitator design DS3 board instead of the S3 I had changed to. I really enjoy the graphics card placement on the board, even if it doesn't have as many USB connections and such as other boards. I'm rather worried about the IDE cable placement, but I'll be using a mid tower and there are several hardware shops right around the corner I ought to be able to get a longer IDE cable from, so that should be a non-issue. Even if all that fails, I'll still have one SATA drive and I can use the IDE cable for the DVD burnder in the lowest slot.

Edit: Settled on 2GB of Corsair XMS2 1GB DDR2 800 PC6400 1.9V CAS 5. End Edit.


Will a 500W PSU be enough power for the configuration I have plus several more HDs later on? I don't mind getting the right tool now and not having to rewire my backside off later. I haven't had much luck looking up the power consumptions of the parts yet, but I will keep trying.

Finally, that leaves the heat sink. I'm worried about space on the case I'll be getting. I know the window is supposed to stick out and not stick in much, if at all, but I won't have much room for error. From what I've seen, the HSK you recommended seems to be a tight fit in almost every Midtower case.

 

[Cynicist]

500w is much more than you will need for that setup. (your computer might get to half that with all those extra hard drives )

Your case is 2cm larger than my P180, which has room to spare with the heatsink attached.

 

[Skaz]

Appreciate all the help guys! I've settled on a build and I'll let you guys know how it turns out!!

 

[Araemo]

Out of curiosity, what's the build you settled on?

 

[Cynicist]

He's been updating his original post while settling on the build. I'd still recommend getting a seagate instead of the raptor. Its not much slower and can provide a great deal more space at a lower price. Thats one kickass computer though, let us know what you get out of it if you ever decide to overclock.