New Build - Any Comments / Lessons Learned?

[Kinesis]

I am finally reaching the stage of replacing my aging (if not near extinct) AMD X2 3800+ / A8N32-SLI Deluxe Computer and moving back to Intel. Since I always respect the opinions of the members here I thought I would see if there was any comments, words or advice, recommendations or lesson's learned from your experiences with the hardware I have selected:

1. PC Function/Use: Work; VPN, VM Ware (XP, Linux), Web development Personal: Gaming, Video Editing (not hardcore), pictures, Blu-Ray movies, Audio Listening/Conversion.
2. Budget: ~$2500, but would like to build bang for buck.
3. Country: Canada
4. Brand Prefs:Intel, WD, Asus, Don't like liquid cooling technology in my builds
5. Parts:/ Samsung S43D/BEBE 24X DVDRW SATA Drive, LG 12X Blu-Ray Writer SATA Drive. WD Caviar Black 500 GB, WD Caviar Green 500 GB SATA HD Drives, External 500 GB RAID 1 eSATA Drive, Ben Q G2220HD Monitor, 5.1 Logitech Surround Speakers, Keyboard and Mouse.
6. Search/Read Threads: Various at Guru3d, Hardware Canucks, Anandtech, Overclockers.net, HardOCP.
7. Overclock: Not initially, but overtime for sure.
8. Resolution: 1920 X 1080
9. When: Jan 1st to Feb 1st 2012

Build Components
Case CM HAF X
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Gen 3)
CPU Intel i7 2600K LGA1155
RAM Corsair Vengance 16 GB DDR 1600 CL9 Dual Channel
Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sata 3 128 GB
video 1 x eVGA nVidia GTX 560 Ti 448 Classified Core 1280 MB
PSU < Biggest Debate > either Corsair HX850 Prof Series Modular PSU
OR
Silverstone Strider Gold 1000w Module PSU

I am pretty set on the Corsair, as I think that will meet my power needs from what I have managed to figure out.

The only other component I keep reviewing and looking over is the case. CM HAF X is great with USB 3.0 and the size (many say once you build a pc with this size case you will never go back), but I keep looking at other options (even mid-towers) like the Corsair Carbide Series. Although just saw that HAF X on clearance somewhere for $40.00 cheaper (all about the dollar bills)because the box was opened in store.


Anyway, I am interested in what others thought....

 

[T_Yamamoto]

you dont need a freakin 850 watt or 1000watt psu

wait for lehtv and mfenn to come along and straighten you up.

gotta go to hockey now

 

[lehtv]

1000W is way overkill. Even 850W is overkill unless you're planning to SLI. I'd just get an XFX 650W for $45 AR. It has 4 PCIe connectors and a strong +12V rail so it can actually handle a lot of dual GPU configs - even 560 Ti 448 SLI if needed. And you can always upgrade it in the unlikely event of going SLI with particularly power hungry cards.

The HAF X is suitable for a dual-GPU setup as the cooling is immense. But there are cheaper yet good quality options that also have great airflow. Rosewill Thor V2 and Corsair Carbide 500R come to mind. If you're not looking to go SLI, just stick with a normal midtower / normal cooling, 400R for example. Can always add extra fans later.

You should buy lower profile RAM, the large fins don't do anything useful and without them you'll have better CPU cooler compatibility. E.g. mushkin silverline or blackline 1.5v, corsair xms3, vengeance low profile, kingston hyperx blu 1.5v, g.skill rijpaws or sniper.

 

[T_Yamamoto]

1000W is way overkill. Even 850W is overkill unless you're planning to SLI. I'd just get an XFX 650W for $45 AR. It has 4 PCIe connectors blah blah blah sair xms3, vengeance low profile, kingston hyperx blu 1.5v, g.skill rijpaws or sniper.

i knew you'd come through for me lehtv. +1

 

[lehtv]

started writing it before you posted yours

 

[Kinesis]

1000W is way overkill. Even 850W is overkill unless you're planning to SLI. I'd just get an XFX 650W for $45 AR. It has 4 PCIe connectors and a strong +12V rail so it can actually handle a lot of dual GPU configs - even 560 Ti 448 SLI if needed. And you can always upgrade it in the unlikely event of going SLI with particularly power hungry cards.

The HAF X is suitable for a dual-GPU setup as the cooling is immense. But there are cheaper yet good quality options that also have great airflow. Rosewill Thor V2 and Corsair Carbide 500R come to mind. If you're not looking to go SLI, just stick with a normal midtower / normal cooling, 400R for example. Can always add extra fans later.

You should buy lower profile RAM, the large fins don't do anything useful and without them you'll have better CPU cooler compatibility. E.g. mushkin silverline or blackline 1.5v, corsair xms3, vengeance low profile, kingston hyperx blu 1.5v, g.skill rijpaws or sniper.

Very good points and most appreciated. Of course I was using the PSU Calculators on line and most put the load around 500 watts so I thought should give some room incase of SLI, hence the 850. 1000 watts was the same price... appreciate the reality check.

Those 2 Corsair Cases were exactly what I was just looking at. Thanks I will explore them.

Excellent point about the RAM, as I would like to add a Cooler Master Hyper 212 to the build.

 

[mfenn]

Very good points and most appreciated. Of course I was using the PSU Calculators on line and most put the load around 500 watts so I thought should give some room incase of SLI, hence the 850. 1000 watts was the same price... appreciate the reality check.

Those 2 Corsair Cases were exactly what I was just looking at. Thanks I will explore them.

Excellent point about the RAM, as I would like to add a Cooler Master Hyper 212 to the build.

Realistically, your system will draw about 375W max. I agree with lehtv on all his points and would like to add:
- Mobo: At ~$200, it is too expensive for what it is. You can get all the same features (including front panel USB 3.0) out of the GA-Z68XP-UD3 for $160.
- GPU: Unless you need NVidia-specific features, the 6950 2GB is generally the same speed for less money.

 

[Kinesis]

Realistically, your system will draw about 375W max. I agree with lehtv on all his points and would like to add:
- Mobo: At ~$200, it is too expensive for what it is. You can get all the same features (including front panel USB 3.0) out of the GA-Z68XP-UD3 for $160.
- GPU: Unless you need NVidia-specific features, the 6950 2GB is generally the same speed for less money.

Thanks mfenn. As for the motherboard, I would agree it is pricey, Asus has been the boards I always go with just because of history. I have looked at Gigabyte many times, but I thought from my researching (not 100%) that Gigabyte is still not able to get EFI bios fully perfected (whatever that means).

But after reviewing the link you provided I am seeing more issues than not with the board from those who commented on Newegg.ca

As for the video cards, I just haven't see the 6950's perform as well as the 560 Ti in the same games or those games I play. I actually considered the 570 but with the 448 core version of the 560 Ti it is basically the same card (in the reviews I read) just a little bit lower priced.

So based on feedback and review I have revised the build:

Build Components
Case Corsair 500R
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Gen 3)
CPU Intel i7 2600K LGA1155
RAM 2 x Corsair Vengance LP 8 GB (2X4GB) DDR 1600 CL9 Dual Channel
Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sata 3 128 GB
video 1 x eVGA nVidia GTX 560 Ti 448 Classified Core 1280 MB
PSU Corsair AX650 Professional Modular PSU

 

[mfenn]

Thanks mfenn. As for the motherboard, I would agree it is pricey, Asus has been the boards I always go with just because of history. I have looked at Gigabyte many times, but I thought from my researching (not 100&#37 that Gigabyte is still not able to get EFI bios fully perfected (whatever that means).

If you don't know what it means, the difference doesn't matter to you.

But after reviewing the link you provided I am seeing more issues than not with the board from those who commented on Newegg.ca

Not sure what you're referring to?

As for the video cards, I just haven't see the 6950's perform as well as the 560 Ti in the same games or those games I play. I actually considered the 570 but with the 448 core version of the 560 Ti it is basically the same card (in the reviews I read) just a little bit lower priced.

Incorrect on both counts. The 6950 2GB is substantially faster than the GTX 560 Ti. This is generally accepted by reviewers. The GTX 560 Ti 448 is also not the same card as a GTX 570, it is a good bit slower.

The GTX 560 Ti 448 is honestly a pretty bad value when you compare it to both the GTX 570 and 6950 2GB. It is the same speed as the 6950 2GB for $55 more dollars and slower than the GTX 570 which costs the same.

So based on feedback and review I have revised the build:

Build Components
Case Corsair 500R
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Gen 3)
CPU Intel i7 2600K LGA1155
RAM 2 x Corsair Vengance LP 8 GB (2X4GB) DDR 1600 CL9 Dual Channel
Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sata 3 128 GB
video 1 x eVGA nVidia GTX 560 Ti 448 Classified Core 1280 MB
PSU Corsair AX650 Professional Modular PSU

My comments:
- Case: Not worth $25 more than the 400R. All you get is a side fan.
- Mobo: Overpriced, see above
- CPU: Fine, but you almost certainly won't see $100 worth of value over the i5 2500K.
- RAM: Depending on how much you are paying, either fine or overpriced. You can get the same performance out of G.Skill DDR3 1333 for $73
- SSD : Good
- GPU: Bad value, see above
- PSU: Way overpriced. In no way, shape or form worth three times as much as the XFX 650W.

Honestly, for the price that you're paying for these parts, you could easily get i5 2500K + 750W PSU + 6950 2GB CFX which would absolutely blow that rig out of the water.

 

[Kinesis]

If you don't know what it means, the difference doesn't matter to you.



Not sure what you're referring to?

Agreed, and from the reviews on Newegg there wasn't that many positive experiences, but I will reconsider that board since I have seen it recommended in several places.

Incorrect on both counts. The 6950 2GB is substantially faster than the GTX 560 Ti. This is generally accepted by reviewers. The GTX 560 Ti 448 is also not the same card as a GTX 570, it is a good bit slower.

The GTX 560 Ti 448 is honestly a pretty bad value when you compare it to both the GTX 570 and 6950 2GB. It is the same speed as the 6950 2GB for $55 more dollars and slower than the GTX 570 which costs the same.

So based on feedback and review I have revised the build:

That may be true for the performance part, but the cost (at least where I am getting it from) is the same 560 Ti 448 = $314.99 CAD, and 6950 2GB = $319.99 CAD, so that was my primary reason for looking at the 448. Hmm, now I am thinking about this a little more... I guess the one that goes on sale on Boxing day may help my decision

My comments:
- Case: Not worth $25 more than the 400R. All you get is a side fan.
- Mobo: Overpriced, see above
- CPU: Fine, but you almost certainly won't see $100 worth of value over the i5 2500K.
- RAM: Depending on how much you are paying, either fine or overpriced. You can get the same performance out of G.Skill DDR3 1333 for $73
- SSD : Good
- GPU: Bad value, see above
- PSU: Way overpriced. In no way, shape or form worth three times as much as the XFX 650W.

Honestly, for the price that you're paying for these parts, you could easily get i5 2500K + 750W PSU + 6950 2GB CFX which would absolutely blow that rig out of the water.

I will shop around for the 6950 for a better price. And honestly I have been wavering on the 2500K vs the 2600K thinking I would see more value from the 2600K with the VM Ware usage for work.... but will explore that a little more as well. I think there is a bundle right now for the Gigabyte board and i5 2500K for the same price as the 2600K chip alone.

Thanks mfenn.

 

[lehtv]

Powercolor 6950 2GB $255, $235 AR (possibly unlockable)
MSI 6950 2GB Twin Frozr II $292, $262 AR (unlockable)
XFX 6950 2GB Dual-fan $290, $260 AR (transferable lifetime warranty)

Cheapest 560 Ti 448: EVGA single-fan $290, no rebate. ~Same speed but less VRAM.

 

[Kinesis]

Thanks lehtv

I think my choices are changing again.

 

[mfenn]

Agreed, and from the reviews on Newegg there wasn't that many positive experiences, but I will reconsider that board since I have seen it recommended in several places.

That's the downside of Newegg reviews I suppose. Popular boards tend to get bad reviews because lots of less-savvy people buy them and have problems. Niche, expensive boards are usually only bought by people who know what they're doing, so they tend to get positive reviews. Selection bias at work I suppose.

That may be true for the performance part, but the cost (at least where I am getting it from) is the same 560 Ti 448 = $314.99 CAD, and 6950 2GB = $319.99 CAD, so that was my primary reason for looking at the 448. Hmm, now I am thinking about this a little more... I guess the one that goes on sale on Boxing day may help my decision

I was gonna ask where you were getting your pricing from, because it seems that it is quite off, but lehtv has saved me the trouble. :awe:

I will shop around for the 6950 for a better price. And honestly I have been wavering on the 2500K vs the 2600K thinking I would see more value from the 2600K with the VM Ware usage for work.... but will explore that a little more as well. I think there is a bundle right now for the Gigabyte board and i5 2500K for the same price as the 2600K chip alone.

For VMWare, it really depends on what you are doing. If you are using it a software dev/test/lab environment where the VMs are mostly sitting idle, then HT won't help you at all. If you are running really intensive programs inside a VM, I would have to ask you "why?".

Thanks mfenn.

No prob.

 

[Kinesis]

That's the downside of Newegg reviews I suppose. Popular boards tend to get bad reviews because lots of less-savvy people buy them and have problems. Niche, expensive boards are usually only bought by people who know what they're doing, so they tend to get positive reviews. Selection bias at work I suppose.



I was gonna ask where you were getting your pricing from, because it seems that it is quite off, but lehtv has saved me the trouble. :awe:

Memory Express

The thing I had to consider was SH charges, as with most components that either made the price equal or greater than memory express. The MIR for the card options certainly gives the edge I needed along with the performance...see I can be persuaded. 3dFx to nVidia, to ATI, to nVidia, to AMD.

For VMWare, it really depends on what you are doing. If you are using it a software dev/test/lab environment where the VMs are mostly sitting idle, then HT won't help you at all. If you are running really intensive programs inside a VM, I would have to ask you "why?".



No prob.

Nothing intense by any means, more testing and development type stuff. So I agree that

In repricing everything I came down a bit and leaning heavily towards the following build now:

Build Components
Case Corsair 500R
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Gen 3)
CPU Intel i5 2500K LGA1155
Cooler: CM Hyper 212
RAM 2 x Corsair Vengance LP 8 GB (2X4GB) DDR 1600 CL9 Dual Channel
Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sata 3 128 GB
video 1 x Powercolor 6950 2 GB
PSU Corsair AX650 Professional Modular PSU

Still prefer the Asus at $60 more

Thanks and Happy Holidays.

 

[lehtv]

Mobo and PSU still way overpriced.

 

[Kinesis]

mfenn,

I am hoping you can help me understand why the wattage would only be that low?

To help with why I think it is higher, although not an expert, the original setup has changed but in some ways I think this results in more wattage being required.

Build Components
Case Corsair 500R
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Gen 3)
CPU Intel i5 2500K LGA1155
Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo
RAM 2 x Corsair Vengance LP 8 GB (2X4GB) DDR 1600 CL9 Dual Channel
Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sata 3 128 GB
video 1 x Powercolor 6950 2 GB
PSU Corsair AX650 Professional Modular PSU <-- Wouldn't 750 or more be required for growth?

If I were to add a second 6950 down the road, and plan to over clock the CPU as well I am going to have 3 HDD (500 GB a piece), plus 2 CD/DVD Combo drives and the 4 case fans plus a Hyper 212 wouldn't that push the need up to the 900 to 1000 wattage? (basing this purely on the different wattage calculator sites)

Thanks

 

[mfenn]

The load consumption of that system is going to be at or below 292W based on real world measurements with an overclocked i7. Adding a few HDDs, ODDs, and fans will not add more than another 50W.

I agree with lehtv that your PSU and Mobo are still horrendously overpriced. Check out my recommendations in post #9 above for more reasonable alternatives.

 

[Kinesis]

The load consumption of that system is going to be at or below 292W based on real world measurements with an overclocked i7. Adding a few HDDs, ODDs, and fans will not add more than another 50W.

I agree with lehtv that your PSU and Mobo are still horrendously overpriced. Check out my recommendations in post #9 above for more reasonable alternatives.

Fair enough, thanks. I really want modular and with that i think this XFX 750 Modular is better priced and meets my needs/wants.

The removable hdd cage option in the 500R over the 400R is something i would like to have as an option.

thanks again

 

[mfenn]

I'm not sure why you want modular to be honest. With the config that you've given, you'll use nearly every cable anyway. Not that the XFX XXX 750 is a bad PSU.

 

[Kinesis]

I'm not sure why you want modular to be honest. With the config that you've given, you'll use nearly every cable anyway. Not that the XFX XXX 750 is a bad PSU.

Well I didn't go full modular, but went with a semi-modular : XFX 750WPRO XXXX which had the 2 PCI-E, 24 Pin, 8 Pin standard and I only needed the 2 SATA Modular cables, so only using 2 of the modular ports. Well worth the money so far.

The result so far:
Build Components
Case Corsair 500R White
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO (Gen 3) <-- Waiting for an upcoming sale to purchase (Jan 14)
CPU Intel i7 2600K LGA1155 <-- Waiting for an upcoming sale on Jan 14
Cooler: CM Hyper 212 Evo
RAM Corsair Vengance LP 16 GB (4X4GB) DDR 1600 CL9 Dual Channel
Drive Crucial M4 SSD Sata 3 128 GB (Got on sale)
video 1 x XFX Radeon 6950 2GB
PSU XFX 750W PRO XXXX

I added to the case twin top mounted Zalman Shark Fin Fans, and on the inner edge of the HDD cage I added twin Fractal Design Silent Series Fans.

Thanks again for your help and suggestions

 

[mfenn]

The PSU still seems to be serious overkill to me and directly contrary to your goal of best bang for the buck. Same goes for the RAM, mobo, and CPU unless you're getting them for a very low price.

 

[lehtv]

Of course, if he's adding another 6950 later (or a similar system in a few years from now!) he won't need to replace that PSU. However it's obviously overkill if the current plan is to not crossfire/sli.

Motherboard still overkill. If you really want an Asus, get the normal P8Z68-V instead of the Pro. The extra SATA 6gb/s ports will be useless unless you're planning to run three or four SSD's!

 

[Kinesis]

The PSU still seems to be serious overkill to me and directly contrary to your goal of best bang for the buck. Same goes for the RAM, mobo, and CPU unless you're getting them for a very low price.

mfenn, I agree to a point, but I really wanted the modular or semi-modular and at the price difference ($30 at the time I purchased) over the 650W it was work it to me in cable reduction. I didn't really make the modular requirement high in my initial post, my mistake.

16 RAM is at a deal $30.00 more ($82.99) than 8 GB ($52.99) was the deal I got for the same brand.

Motherboard and CPU were $133 dollars off at Boxing day and the upcoming sale promises similar value reductions...if not then I will grab the i5 (also to be reduced)

Of course, if he's adding another 6950 later (or a similar system in a few years from now!) he won't need to replace that PSU. However it's obviously overkill if the current plan is to not crossfire/sli.

Motherboard still overkill. If you really want an Asus, get the normal P8Z68-V instead of the Pro. The extra SATA 6gb/s ports will be useless unless you're planning to run three or four SSD's!

lehtv, I do plan to do crossfire now that I see the room in the 500R (which I did manage to pickup at the price of the 400R with Mail in Rebate). I have tossed around the P8Z68-V vs the Pro version but with a couple of new developments leading to the Pro version. I have a couple of Firewire externals that are becoming orphaned with my iMac dying so rather than purchase more hard drives I will enable those for this system for additional data storage (not that I need a whole lot).

Appreciate the comments. If I were to get the chip & board at the regular price this system is still $650 bucks less than my buddy who also built a new system (1000 W PSU - told him not to, 560 Ti, HAFX Case...)

 

[lehtv]

If you need firewire, take a look at Gigabyte boards. Similar features as Asus P8Z68-V, but with firewire, and less $.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813128512
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813128498
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=62197&vpn=GA-Z68XP-UD4&manufacture=Gigabyte

Then you have EVGA Z68 SLI for $150 AR, not as rich in features (e.g. lacks display connectivity) but EVGA is a great brand

 

[mfenn]

If you need firewire, take a look at Gigabyte boards. Similar features as Asus P8Z68-V, but with firewire, and less $.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813128512
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16813128498
http://ncix.com/products/?sku=62197&vpn=GA-Z68XP-UD4&manufacture=Gigabyte

Then you have EVGA Z68 SLI for $150 AR, not as rich in features (e.g. lacks display connectivity) but EVGA is a great brand

IMHO a good long term solution is a PCIe Firewire adapter. That way you can carry the adapter forward from machine to machine instead of having to drop $$$ on a Firewire-enabled mobo each time.