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new book: "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality"

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Since when does anyone take the pronouncements of the 3-letter orgs seriously... They all (AMA, ADA , APAs, ADA, etc) have taken such stupid positions on various issues in the last 20 years or so that their credibility is shot! Pronouncements based on the outcomes of studies whose outcomes were determined before they were even started...
.bh.
rolleye.gif

 
Originally posted by: Bluefront
I frankly think homosexuality is a learned behavior that can be prevented. It's very similar to alcoholism, something you develop on your own for whatever reason, and something that can be cured, or at least treated.
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theres an alcoholic gene. theres also a chocolate gene.
 
How bout a guide on not having kids until you feel you are smart enough to have em without having to read a book?
 
all of you get in a rut over protecting and bashing gays. who cares, do you think your statement or post here will help a fellow homosexual or a fellow hetrosexual out?

but, i guess as nerds this is what you all consider fun. bashing people over the internet.

nice life.
 
Nothing is more fascinating then the people who butt into a good argument and proudly announce that everybody has no life and is wasting their time trying to change people who won't change. Did you think you were going to change us, or were you really just smugly savoring your own inverted feelings of inferiority, I mean superiority.

I remember existentialism, luvly. It was part of what died. I have read your post a number of times and figure you are talking a code that means something to you, ideas that arise out of formal logic perhaps. I am really a simpleton. I don't understand especially about the thief and consistency, etc and would like to. It's probably a bit off topic, so maybe another time. I think to encapsulate where our misunderstanding may lie, truth to me is like a man who has become a chimp. In a banana, the universe is contained. It's about being. It's so simple and so difficult at the same time. It's that mountains are mountains thing in Zen. But since you love me here's something for you just so you know we aren't alone in our vision:

Debbie Reynolds and Carleton Carpenter sang this in the movie "Two Weeks with Love" in 1942 starring Ricardo Montalban and Jane Powell. The song was written in 1914.

Mike

------------------------------------------------
Aba Daba Honeymoon
Words and Music By: Arthur Fields & Walter Donovan
Copyright MCMXIV by Leo Feist

Way down in the Congoland
Lived a happy chimpanzee.
She loved a monkey with long tail
(Lordy, how she loved him!)
Each night he would find her there,
Swinging in the cocoanut tree,
And the monkey gay,
At the break of day,
Loved to hear his Chimpie say:

"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Chimpie to the Monk,
"Baba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Monkey to the Chimp.
All night long they'd chatter away,
All day long there were happy and gay,
Swinging and singing in their hunky-tonkey way.
"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Means "Monk, I love but you."
"Baba, daba, dab," in monkey talk
Means "Chimp, I love you, too."
Then the big baboon one night in June,
He married them and very soon,
They went upon their aba, daba honeymoon.

"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Chimpie to the Monk,
"Baba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Monkey to the Chimp.
All night long they'd chatter away,
All day long there were happy and gay,
Swinging and singing in their hunky-tonkey way.
"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Means "Monk, I love but you."
"Baba, daba, dab," in monkey talk
Means "Chimp, I love you, too."
One night they were made man and wife,
And now they cry, "This is the life,"
Since they came from their aba, daba honeymoon.

Well, you should have heard that band
Play upon their wedding day,
Each Chimp and Monkey had nutshells
(Lordy, how they played them)
And now it is ev'ry night,
High up in the cocoanut tree.
It's the same old thing,
With the same old swing,
When the Monk and Chimpie sing:

"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Chimpie to the Monk,
"Baba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Monkey to the Chimp.
All night long they'd chatter away,
All day long there were happy and gay,
Swinging and singing in their hunky-tonkey way.
"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Means "Monk, I love but you."
"Baba, daba, dab," in monkey talk
Means "Chimp, I love you, too."
Then the big baboon one night in June,
He married them and very soon,
They went upon their aba, daba honeymoon.

"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Chimpie to the Monk,
"Baba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Said the Monkey to the Chimp.
All night long they'd chatter away,
All day long there were happy and gay,
Swinging and singing in their hunky-tonkey way.
"Aba, daba, daba, daba, daba, daba, dab,"
Means "Monk, I love but you."
"Baba, daba, dab," in monkey talk
Means "Chimp, I love you, too."
One night they were made man and wife,
And now they cry, "This is the life,"
Since they came from their aba, daba honeymoon.
 
Honest-to-god moonie, what's with your obcession about monkeys? Now you're talking about bananas and monkeys. Monkey see, monkey do.....love a monkey, abba dabba do. How does your monkey-thing relate to a book about preventing homosexuality?
 
Being gay is not an option. I repeat, not an option.

However, that being said....

Choosing to engage in sex is a choice.

There you go.
 
wow this thread is still alive? i agree w/ moonbeam about this thread being a discusion between people, although in few cases it has gone into flaming, its just a discussion, we're not really here to change anyones opinion, we're just here to express our own opinion on homosexuality, and how to prevent it if it can be prevented (I dont think it can be).

Whether or not homosexuality can be prevented or "cured" i dont think this book has the answer, frankly i dont think it matters, its like what if somehow you had a child that was different? would you treat it differently? would any less of your child? Just as long as you love it unconditionally they child will be a good person.
 
Originally posted by: Bluefront
Fausto1, I appreciate your analysis of that one post of mine, but you missed one important word....pragmatic. I'm sure you know the meaning, but for those who may not, pragmatic means something like realistic. When I listed those reasons for not being a homosexual, it was as I stated from a pragmatic/realistic viewpoint. I've seen no evidence homosexuality is inherently unhealthy. However, from a pragmatic view, it is potentially unhealthy for the reasons I stated. It would be easy to tell your kid something like "I know it may seem unfair to you, but here is what is likely to happen if you become a homosexual...." Now that is being totally truthful to your kid, and that is being pragmatic like I said. There is no judgement here, only a pragmatic statement of the truth. Now if you want to lie to your kid, just tell him he won't get beat up, and that there are no problems with homosexuality.

As to my comparison of alcoholism and homosexuality, I think it is totally valid from a pragmatic viewpoint. They both involve a way of life that can cause many problems, both physical and emotional. To deny the truth of this is to completely close your eyes to reality.....or maybe just put on your rose-colored glasses....such as our local, myopic, soon-to-be-flying, moonie.
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Fair enough and I see your point. What I was really getting at is that the only reason homosexuality is harmful, from a pragmatic standpoint as you pointed out, is because of the stigma which is attached to it and continually perpetuated. Take that away (ie- everyone quits spending so much time worrying about and demonizing those who are generally upstanding members of society) and suddenly it's not such a big deal to be gay. Unfortunately, it's a vicious cycle: you grow up (especially as a male), the term "i love you" is constantly bandied about as an epithet, and through sheer repetition you gradually begin to believe the propaganda and come to the conclusion that homosexuality is disgusting, wrong and criminal. You have kids, they pick up on your views (as all kids do) and we start all over again. It would be nice if everyone would just step back, take an objective look at homosexuality, realize it's just not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, and go on about minding their own business.

This is kind of an aside to the thread, but I'm compelled to point out that it really irks me that most discussions regarding "gays" are regarding gay men specifically. Most of the rampant homophobes of the world will tell you that they have no problem with gay women since they all hold dear the infantile dream that they can somehow finagle two of these women into bed at some point.....wouldn't that be hot.
rolleye.gif

 
Originally posted by: GirlFriday
For those who want to bring the Bible into it, the Bible also supported slavery:

Exodus 21:20-21 (NIV): "If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property"

Leviticus 25:44-46 (NIV) "Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."


Does that make slavery ok then? Just because something is in the Bible, it doesn't make it right. The Bible was written and interpeted by man, and I for one am not willing to bet that they were totally unbiased in their views.
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The Bible never endorses slavery. If you take things out of context, like you have done, it's easy to twist the Bible's teachings into anything. You can even make the Bible a tool that supports atheism. Big fscking deal. Your quotes are out of context and misleading. If you're going to supply examples, atleast make your examples APPLICABLE to the situation at hand. The Bible's teachings endorse following the law of man provided that the law of man does not contradict the law of God. You know, the whole "man cannot serve two masters" kind of thing.

nik
 
Originally posted by: Zepper
Since when does anyone take the pronouncements of the 3-letter orgs seriously... They all (AMA, ADA , APAs, ADA, etc) have taken such stupid positions on various issues in the last 20 years or so that their credibility is shot! Pronouncements based on the outcomes of studies whose outcomes were determined before they were even started...
.bh.
rolleye.gif
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You're free to make any points, or post any credible links you got there, Stymie!
rolleye.gif
 
I've been lurking in this thread for a few days now and been wanting to comment, so here goes.

Is Homosexuality learned, biological, or chosen? Yes. I think it's all 3, some choose it, some learn it, and others just gravitate to it. Who and how many I haven't a fargin clue, but I suspect the numbers change at various points in time(depending on social conditions). I suspect that in todays self-gratifying society, that many do choose to become or engage in Homosexual activity, but that in and of itself doesn't eliminate the possibility that some are just born as Homosexuals.

Morality and Nature

Some have pointed out the Homosexual nature, or existance, of some animals, others have countered that animals lack intelligence thus not knowing what they are doing. If that was the case(animals being unintelligent), wouldn't animals just hit everything and through multiple hittings inadvertantly procreate? The claim that animals lack intelligence is absurd and is but a lame attempt to protect Natural Law from Natural Reality. Afterall, if some Homosexual relationships exist within Nature, then the concept of Heterosexual as being the Universal norm can not be supported by Natural Law(a concept used by many to structure Moralatiy upon). Natural Law no longer works given current understandings of Nature, AKA has become obsolete as an arguement against Homosexuality.

Human Exclusivity is now the only arguement that provides a reasonable rebuttle. This arguement asserts that Humans are not Animals, or more precisely, are not mere Animals. You've got your dogs, cats, monkeys, dolphins, and whales, but humans are not the same. This is a concept, on the face of it, that is easily believed, as long as you don't apply scientific thinking to it. At onetime we believed animals to be lacking *any* intelligence, they were mere machines that acted upon some pre-recorded(by God)algorithm and *instinct*(many believed the voice of God). Animals learn, they have intelligence, to believe otherwise is worse than foolish, it is a well crafted self-deception. Pets can modify their behaviours, various insects can choose a location then build vast communities, wolves(and other pack minded animals) learn and accept their place within their societies, yadda yadda ya. Only religious thought can support Human Exclusivity(not that that is a bad thing).

Humans and Nature

What causes a Human to choose sexual activity? Is it learned? Does one just decide one day to have sex? Or is it an *instinct* where suddenly the urge to have sex is awoken in us? I think most of us older folk remember how suddenly around puberty there was an "awakening". It wasn't something we reasoned out, it wasn't something we were told to do, we just had to do it! Of course we didn't just do it, but the thought and urge was there if it were not from Social Conditioning we would be doing it though. The point here is that, not only do Animals share(to a lesser degree) the concept of Intelligence with Humans, but Humans share(to a lesser degree) the concept of Instinct(re: the difference between Animals and Humans is one of degrees of adherence, not to a Black and White either/or).

What is sex for?

Obviously, the primary purpose of sex is Pro-Creation. It is the only Natural way to Pro-Create and that is it's only practical Biological use. The pleasure in doing it is merely Natures Carrot. 😀 It's a trick! :Q I know many couples who had plans of waiting x amount of time, then getting surprised 9 months later with a little Package they didn't plan on, [Nelson]Haha[/Nelson]. Anyway, what happens to Social Norms when Nature's Trick is neutralized through Anti-Pro-Creation(Birth Control) methods? Social Norms change to reflect the new "Reality". That Reality is one where sex is all Carrot and no Package. This opens a whole can of worms, of which we are dealing with now and have been for a few decades. The finding of a single suitable Mate for Pro-creation is now the finding of a Lover(s). If the Package is no longer important then the Carrot is of prime importance and getting Carrot can be acheived in a number of ways, including Homosexually.

Getting back to "A Parents Guide to Preventing Homosexuality"

The prevention of homosexuality is an issue for some people(primarily religious, but not exclusively). IMO, it's pointless and probably destructive to their childrens psyche, but also destructive to the parents intention of preventing homosexuality.

The pointlessness is in that Homosexuality isn't the problem that needs addressed, it's decadence. Our society(ies) are too wealthy, too self-indulgent, and too self-absorbed to waste one's time on dealing with a mere result of our decadence.

A child's psyche can be damaged for 2 reasons IMO. 1) if they are among the few who are actually born with a homosexual biology(assuming one exists), then a parents attempt of preventing homosexuality will likely result in a child filled with self-doubt and self-hate. 2) A child will have the idea of homosexuality firmly burnt into their mind, perhaps leading to curiosity about it or an unreasonable fear and hating of it(which could result in some horrible consequences). Either way, as other issues have shown in the past, the more paranoid you are about something, the more likely your paranoia will be realized.



This post is getting rather long and I really wanted to expand some of the points more thoroughly, but I think I'll end it here for now.
 
sandorski,

Wow!! Excellent post. You really hit the nail on the head there with the decadence aspect. I agree that a ton of our societal "problems" are merely symptoms of/reactions to a much deeper rift in humanity... I have felt this way for a while.

We should have a thread about this.

l2c
 
" they have no problem with gay women since they all hold dear the infantile dream that they can somehow finagle two of these women into bed at some point.....wouldn't that be hot."

Heh...never thought that was an infantile dream. And it's no big deal either.😉
 
Originally posted by: Siva
bout time, i don't want my kid to be no fscking queermo.
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following this book won't help you. you don't want gay kids? don't have kids. cause that's the only way you're going to avoid it. otherwise you're taking your chances.
 
Thanks for the hot deal! 😉 I think this would make for some funny assed conversation when placed onm a coffee table 🙂
 
Originally posted by: mrhans
Thanks for the hot deal! 😉 I think this would make for some funny assed conversation when placed onm a coffee table 🙂
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you're welcome 😀
 
Originally posted by: dolph
Originally posted by: mrhans
Thanks for the hot deal! 😉 I think this would make for some funny assed conversation when placed onm a coffee table 🙂
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you're welcome 😀
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Well, now that you screwoffs have dragged this back from the dead, I'd like to hear dolph's opinion of this book. Matter of fact, I DEMAND IT! :frown:
 
Originally posted by: Ornery
Originally posted by: dolph
Originally posted by: mrhans
Thanks for the hot deal! 😉 I think this would make for some funny assed conversation when placed onm a coffee table 🙂
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you're welcome 😀
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Well, now that you screwoffs have dragged this back from the dead, I'd like to hear dolph's opinion of this book. Matter of fact, I DEMAND IT! :frown:
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lol, you DEMAND it, eh? 😉
 
<---
Kenn, are you completely blind? Try reading...

I'd insert a rainbow icon here, but there aren't any gay emoticons right now. 🙁

 
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