New Apple Power Macs

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OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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wow and i bet you did this to:

/Buy ridiculously overpriced Mac systme/think i'm more elite than the rest of the world/wonder why i can't right click with my hockey puck mouse/think my system is 90 % faster than any PC on the market/be stuck with whatever programs Apple decides you should have (and you say Microsoft is monopolistic).

 

dannybin1742

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2002
2,335
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dell is about the only comapny that is still making profit regularly, thats why theri stock price has remained relatively stable in the 20 range
 

dannybin1742

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2002
2,335
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i agree with Sudheer Anne

apple users think they are elite because they can spend $5k on a system.

price to performance ratio is still way in favor of the pc, thats why 95% of market is NOT apple

apple doesn't even make their processors, motorola does, so why do they say apples new g4? that like dell saying check out our new dell p4 even though intel really is the one making the chip.
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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I didn't pay a penny for a mac. I'm ALSO a PC user and love my PC. You're reading me all wrong. I'm just trying to debunk your idiot foaming at the mouth mac hatred. Ever heard of FUD? I'm just being the Devil's advocate. Seriously, read the links I provided...if you can.
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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(and you say Microsoft is monopolistic).

I never said that. You must be painting me in your head as a mac fanboy or something. Macs havne't come with hockey puck mice for over two years and you can right click with any usb mouse. or using the ctrl key. Any other FUD you got? When's the last time you used a Mac?
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: dannybin1742
Apple is still profitable though so they're doing fine.


wrong, apple posted a los last quarter, and is expecting one this quarter






Wrong..
Wrong #2.



wow and i bet you did this to:
/Buy ridiculously overpriced Mac systme/think i'm more elite than the rest of the world/wonder why i can't right click with my hockey puck mouse/think my system is 90 % faster than any PC on the market/be stuck with whatever programs Apple decides you should have (and you say Microsoft is monopolistic).


You really are dense. You've trolled in enough of these threads to know that macs can accept any USB mouse and that apple doesnt make all the software.
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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THanks for the supporting link lucky. I knew that Apple made a profit this quarter as it was well publicised I was just too lazy to look it up. I'm just going to ignore these two thread crappers.
Edit: wow, two links, how nice.
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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Nice touch. Danny's been making some...silly points over in this thread too if you care to read them. I debunked a bit of what he said here, there.
 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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that's great that apple is doing well. I want them to succeed so the pc market has something to compete against. Competition is good, and if Apple ever decides that PC gaming is worth venturing into and they make Macs a viable gaming platform, and they lower the costs by around 30-40 %, and they make better video cards, and better sound cards, and faster processors, and developers make more games for them then i might consider buying one.
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
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Originally posted by: Sudheer Anne
that's great that apple is doing well. I want them to succeed so the pc market has something to compete against. Competition is good, and if Apple ever decides that PC gaming is worth venturing into and they make Macs a viable gaming platform, and they lower the costs by around 30-40 %, and they make better video cards, and better sound cards, and faster processors, and developers make more games for them then i might consider buying one.



You are continuing to show that you dont understand how apple works. They dont *make* the video cards, or *make* the processors. ATI, nvidia, and motorola do.

They will NEVER be as cheap as homebuilt wintel boxes are, and for good reason. Are they more expensive than they *could* be? Certainly, but R&D (and design) costs are higher than a builder (such as dell) who just outsources the building of completely generic components. Personally, I think if they lowered their prices they would bring in a significantly higher amount of sales...but I dont make those decisions. Also, what games do you play that aren't available on the mac? It's been shown in plenty of previous threads that many (most?) of the popular games available today are also available on the mac.

Of course, I do more than gaming on my computers....

 

OneOfTheseDays

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2000
7,052
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what games are not on the mac? ok here goes: these are ones that i play too.

counterstrike, SOF2, MOHAA, Freedom Force, FIFA 2002, Madden 2002, NHL 2002, the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on. So far Mac users have pretty much warcraft3 and diablo 2 and some other decent titles, whooopeee.

I know they don't make video cards, it was a typo on my part, i meant that they could lower the costs for buying a Mac GF4 or a Mac video card/soundcard. And if you didn't know, PC games and visual editing are pushing the technology industry forward at this moment. Without either of them we wouldn't have the advances that we have today.

If apple didn't waste all their time trying to figure out how to make fishtank looking Pc's and desklamp PC's and worrying about the aesthetics they wouldn't have to spend so much on R&D. Most people just shove the case under the desk anyways. Maybe they should concentrate more on performance and less on fluff.
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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Don't even bother...you're wasting your breath. Keep in mind that this is someone who said "it's not hard to profit when your making next to nothing." and then proceeded to "not see anything wrong with that statement" because "apple has been near bankruptcy many times" :-/
"So far Mac users have pretty much warcraft3 and diablo 2 and some other decent titles, whooopeee."
Obviously this person has no clue. I was in Compusmart the other day and spent some time in the Mac section. They had almost every single PC game title out there. I was astonished. EVERYTHING was there for the Mac. This kind of ignorant dumbass statement from this person is to be expected just like earlier statements this person made.
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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I did a 3 minute search on google to see if the games that you mentioned were availabe. I found that EVERY SINGLE one on that list either is currently available for Mac or has been announced to be released soon. It takes very little time to port to OS X.
counterstrike
SOF2
MOHAA
Freedom force
FIFA series
Madden series
NHL series
As you said:
"the list goes on and on and on and on and on and on"
Yep, that's every one you listed. Care to make any other dumb FUD statements with no support whatsoever that we can prove wrong?
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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wow and i bet you did this to:

/Buy ridiculously overpriced Mac systme/think i'm more elite than the rest of the world/wonder why i can't right click with my hockey puck mouse/think my system is 90 % faster than any PC on the market/be stuck with whatever programs Apple decides you should have (and you say Microsoft is monopolistic).

Well, you're way off base on all counts. How much did you bet? Since you don't understand the Unix directory structure which was used to mock you, those slashes in your "comeback" just form one pathetically long run-on sentence with three split tenses. Better luck next time!
 

paralazarguer

Banned
Jun 22, 2002
1,887
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apple doesn't even make their processors, motorola does, so why do they say apples new g4? that like dell saying check out our new dell p4 even though intel really is the one making the chip.

No...it's not like that at all. See, you can't guy a G4 in a Compaq or HP or gateway. You can buy a p4 in a Compaq, hp, or gateway. Motorolla is making these 74xx derivitives exlusively for Apple. Intel is not making chips for Dell exlusively. This is done with countless products everywhere. Also, motorolla isn't the only manufacturer of power pc chips. IBM makes them also.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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its a fact, the new macs suck
http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=1545

BareFeats has a benchmark, testing the SDRAM-based dual G4 at 1Ghz with the new DDR PC2100 ones. The new PowerMacs are the same or slower than their previous models, the test reveals. The Mac community got a bit dissapointed (judging from the forums). The author says that the slowdown is because the two processors share a 1GB/s pipe to Apple's custom AGP/Memory controller. While the shared bandwidth is a factor, it is not the reason that makes the new Macs slower. Having a better look at the specs, show that the author have forgot a very important detail:
The new PowerMacs have 1 MB of L3 Cache, while the SDRAM ones have 2 MB of L3 and that's the real reason which results to the slowdown.

Especially his kinds of tests, that could fit a lot of their information on that cache, have a bigger impact when you have less cache. The author implies a technical "flaw" of the overall design, a hidden bottleneck, but this time I will have to semi-take Apple's side, and say that this is not a technical flaw, but simply a design decision on the amount of L3 cache to be included.

Apple's only mistake was to take this decision in order to decrease the price of the new Macs. Selling a slower Mac than the previous same model, it is just not good business these days for Apple.

New Macs might be a bit slower or the same speed as the previous same model Macs, despite the fact that they now using DDR. But this slowness is certainly not for the reasons the author implies ("shared bandwidth").
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Riddle me this: If 7757524 is such an Apple FanGirl, why doesn't she have one in her hardware profile? You would think that someone defending Apple so strongly would at least pretend to own one!
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
24,143
1,793
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5G? what are you talking about? I'd say that their $2499 ($3,899cdn) model is the best bang for the buck. That's dual. It would probably cost more than that to come up with a 2.53ghz P4 with a DVD burner from a major OEM offering a similar warranty. Their $1699 ($2,699Cdn) model isn't a bad deal either.
It's got:
Dual 1GHz PowerPC G4
256K L2 cache
& 1MB L3 cache per processor
256MB PC2700 DDR SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA drive
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
ATI Radeon 9000 Pro
I was talking about the 1.25 GHz machines, but I admit, I would consider the dual 1 GHz as well. However, you should remember that 256 MB RAM is insufficient for OS X.2, and the thing does not come with a monitor. So add CAD$500 to the price at least. I wouldn't go with anything less than dual 1 GHz though, if only because of the psychological 1 GHz barrier and resale value. Also remember that this setup doesn't include MS Office either, just the useless Appleworks.

However, I can build a similar Windows machine with good quality parts for about >$1000 less, including Windows XP and MS Office. Mind you, I still like X.2 better and would love to be able to use iDVD. (I can't use iDVD on my laptop because iDVD is unsupported on a G3 and iDVD doesn't work with external DVD burners. Ironically, the pro program DVD Studio Pro works fine on an iBook.)

As for comparing dualies to single-chip P4s? Well, it was Apple who made the first comparison, but more importantly the reason the comparison is made is because they actually compete against each other. A dually G4 doesn't do as well in a lot of tasks as one might think. First, while the OS should do well, remember that even in OS X the apps should be SMP aware to best make use of the dually setup. Otherwise the software just run like they're on a supercharged single-chip system. Second, while a G4 is very fast on a MHz by MHz basis, a 1 GHz CPU just cannot compete with a 2.5 GHz P4. The P4 would blow it out of the water on most tasks. The 2nd CPU is required just to compete.

The PowerMacs are well thought out and well-made machines. However, I don't think that completely justifies the 35% higher sticker price. The reason people continue to buy them is because of the general OS experience and because of the software. Stuff like Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro, etc. don't even exist on the PC side. The extra cost of the PowerMac is just an extra cost of doing business and that's fine for business, but for average Joe, a PowerMac is not necessarily a wise purchase.

Indeed, a single-chip iMac is much better for the average person. An 800 MHz iMac is CAD$3200, including DVD-RW/-R, 80 GB drive, 256 MB RAM, Geforce4 MX, AND 17" LCD. A similarly spec'd dual GHz PowerMac with Geforce4 MX and 17" display is CAD$5300. Even if you were a gamer, I'd still get the iMac, and spend the extra cash on a stripped down gaming PC to get something that would blow the dual GHz PowerMac out of the water in games.

IMO, today the PowerMac is for the most part a pro computer, not a general consumer product.
 

sharkeeper

Lifer
Jan 13, 2001
10,886
2
0
Riddle me this: If 7757524 is such an Apple FanGirl, why doesn't she have one in her hardware profile? You would think that someone defending Apple so strongly would at least pretend to own one!

That and the fact they use an Audigy when they explicitly work with 24/96. Perhaps resampling wouldn't be necessary (downsampling) if they used a real card that can playback and record native 24/96! :D

At least MS won't force you to use the latest and greatest! :Q

Cheers!
 

nortexoid

Diamond Member
May 1, 2000
4,096
0
0
perhaps nobody has seen this yet, but the new powermac's aren't really benefitting from their recent architectural "advances"....hence the stir in the mac community regarding them.

read and...wheep?
 

Lucky

Lifer
Nov 26, 2000
13,126
1
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Originally posted by: nortexoid
perhaps nobody has seen this yet, but the new powermac's aren't really benefitting from their recent architectural "advances"....hence the stir in the mac community regarding them.

read and...wheep?



i've been reading on ars and MA that those benches may not have been the best to choose.


ah, here:

4. The advantages of the DDR Power Mac will show only if you load up all the busses (CPU, PCI, FireWire, AGP, etc.). (We're working on a couple of test scenarios to test this theory. Stay tuned. -- rob-ART)


its a fact, the new macs suck


Well, you can think that if you want but the major price drop, inclusion of dual processors, and the case upgrade, along with various other improvements, is a step in the right direction for apple.