New and Not Improved

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
This issue could really hurt Obama in the fall.

If the Republicans can successfully cast him as a flip-flopper whose word is meaningless then it could really hurt Obama as people will tune most of what he says out.

On top of this Obama's well crafted story about being a different kind of politician has pretty much been exposed as being total BS.

So at this point the only thing he has in his favor is the fact that he's not a Republican. Might be enough to win in the fall, might not be.
link
Senator Barack Obama stirred his legions of supporters, and raised our hopes, promising to change the old order of things. He spoke with passion about breaking out of the partisan mold of bickering and catering to special pleaders, promised to end President Bush?s abuses of power and subverting of the Constitution and disowned the big-money power brokers who have corrupted Washington politics.

Now there seems to be a new Barack Obama on the hustings. First, he broke his promise to try to keep both major parties within public-financing limits for the general election. His team explained that, saying he had a grass-roots-based model and that while he was forgoing public money, he also was eschewing gold-plated fund-raisers. These days he?s on a high-roller hunt.

Even his own chief money collector, Penny Pritzker, suggests that the magic of $20 donations from the Web was less a matter of principle than of scheduling. ?We have not been able to have much of the senator?s time during the primaries, so we have had to rely more on the Internet,? she explained as she and her team busily scheduled more than a dozen big-ticket events over the next few weeks at which the target price for quality time with the candidate is more than $30,000 per person.

The new Barack Obama has abandoned his vow to filibuster an electronic wiretapping bill if it includes an immunity clause for telecommunications companies that amounts to a sanctioned cover-up of Mr. Bush?s unlawful eavesdropping after 9/11.

In January, when he was battling for Super Tuesday votes, Mr. Obama said that the 1978 law requiring warrants for wiretapping, and the special court it created, worked. ?We can trace, track down and take out terrorists while ensuring that our actions are subject to vigorous oversight and do not undermine the very laws and freedom that we are fighting to defend,? he declared.

Now, he supports the immunity clause as part of what he calls a compromise but actually is a classic, cynical Washington deal that erodes the power of the special court, virtually eliminates ?vigorous oversight? and allows more warrantless eavesdropping than ever.

The Barack Obama of the primary season used to brag that he would stand before interest groups and tell them tough truths. The new Mr. Obama tells evangelical Christians that he wants to expand President Bush?s policy of funneling public money for social spending to religious-based organizations ? a policy that violates the separation of church and state and turns a government function into a charitable donation.

He says he would not allow those groups to discriminate in employment, as Mr. Bush did, which is nice. But the Constitution exists to protect democracy, no matter who is president and how good his intentions may be.

On top of these perplexing shifts in position, we find ourselves disagreeing powerfully with Mr. Obama on two other issues: the death penalty and gun control.

Mr. Obama endorsed the Supreme Court?s decision to overturn the District of Columbia?s gun-control law. We knew he ascribed to the anti-gun-control groups? misreading of the Constitution as implying an individual right to bear arms. But it was distressing to see him declare that the court provided a guide to ?reasonable regulations enacted by local communities to keep their streets safe.?

What could be more reasonable than a city restricting handguns, or requiring that firearms be stored in ways that do not present a mortal threat to children?

We were equally distressed by Mr. Obama?s criticism of the Supreme Court?s barring the death penalty for crimes that do not involve murder.

We are not shocked when a candidate moves to the center for the general election. But Mr. Obama?s shifts are striking because he was the candidate who proposed to change the face of politics, the man of passionate convictions who did not play old political games.

There are still vital differences between Mr. Obama and Senator John McCain on issues like the war in Iraq, taxes, health care and Supreme Court nominations. We don?t want any ?redefining? on these big questions. This country needs change it can believe in.
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
81
Doesn't matter. He can do or say pretty much what he wants, and he'll still be better than McCain.

There's plenty of unhappy Republicans. And just enough will vote for Obama or Barr. McCain doesn't have a chance.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
That article is stretching things a bit. And their liberal views that are in stark contrast to Mr. Obama's conservative views have nothing to do with flip-flops.

I will admit that the article sets itself up nicely, but there are obvious cracks in their storytelling.
 

ChrisFromNJ

Member
Jul 4, 2008
52
0
0
It all depends on whether McCain's campaign pushes the flip-flopping narrative as well as the 2004 Bush campaign did.

And whether or not the voters are tired of that accusation and if it sticks or not.
 

Butterbean

Banned
Oct 12, 2006
918
1
0
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,785
6,345
126
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

People are correct, you are Wrong.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
126
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)


If they ever find the cellar full of bodies, his campaign will definitely be in trouble.



These are my friends.
See how they glisten.
See this one shine...
How he smiles in the light.
My friend.
My faithful friend...
Speak to me friend.
Whisper...
I'll listen.
I know, I know you've been locked
out of sight
all these years, like me
My friend...
well I've come home to find you waiting.
Home, and we're together!
And we'll do wonders.
Won't we?
You there, my friend?
 

RY62

Senior member
Mar 13, 2005
891
153
106
He's not flip flopping dammit. He's being "Flexible". :laugh:

BO promised Hope and Change and he's living up to those promises. He's changing more and more every day and his followers are hoping he'll come back to the positions they were supporting.

Hey Super Delegates...It's not too late to dump this fraud.

Political Unity My Ass!
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
2
0
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

How do intelligent people speak?
 

Ballatician

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2007
1,985
0
0
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

How do intelligent people speak?

They stick to the script. You must never deviate from the carefully constructed script! :roll:
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

Praise the lord... you have shown us the light

I am sure MR Bush has always impressed you with his speaking ability and his NORMAL attitude

Will you leave the country if a Negro is voted in as president or just stay in some hole in Idaho or Wyoming?
 

Sacrilege

Senior member
Sep 6, 2007
647
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

Praise the lord... you have shown us the light

I am sure MR Bush has always impressed you with his speaking ability and his NORMAL attitude

Will you leave the country if a Negro is voted in as president or just stay in some hole in Idaho or Wyoming?

Butterbean is a parody poster.... replying just wastes bandwidth. My post is not a waste but a public service announcement.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Sacrilege
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

Praise the lord... you have shown us the light

I am sure MR Bush has always impressed you with his speaking ability and his NORMAL attitude

Will you leave the country if a Negro is voted in as president or just stay in some hole in Idaho or Wyoming?

Butterbean is a parody poster.... replying just wastes bandwidth. My post is not a waste but a public service announcement.


I hope you are right... he sure seems like an average Bush voter though
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
anyone dumb enough to talk about how Obama speaks, and complain - while backing Bush.........wow, the irony is just too much
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

I think you are sincere when you say that.

And sadly, I think the NYT is right on in this editorial. PJ and other righties are not.
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
271
136
Originally posted by: bamacre
Doesn't matter. He can do or say pretty much what he wants, and he'll still be better than McCain.

There's plenty of unhappy Republicans. And just enough will vote for Obama or Barr. McCain doesn't have a chance.

There's that and the fact that McCain is in lock-step with a vast majority of Bush's policies, minus some of the stupid.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,163
136
We'll be seeing a lot of posts and articles of this nature in the next months.
But...

Doesn't matter. He can do or say pretty much what he wants, and he'll still be better than McCain.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
11,347
2,710
136
Originally posted by: RichardE
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

How do intelligent people speak?



with their mouths instead of blowing it out their asses, like butterbean.

 

Uhtrinity

Platinum Member
Dec 21, 2003
2,263
202
106
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

Praise the lord... you have shown us the light

I am sure MR Bush has always impressed you with his speaking ability and his NORMAL attitude

Will you leave the country if a Negro is voted in as president or just stay in some hole in Idaho or Wyoming?

Please don't assume his hatred is welcomed here. There is a lot of support for Obama in ID, a literal grass roots movement.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: Butterbean
Ever notice how deliberate and measured Obama is when he speaks in reply to a question? People assume its because hes intelligent when hes really just trying to carefully construct answers that don't give away what he really thinks. One half of him is trying to talk while hiding the other half. Obama is as two faced as they come. Even sociopaths can sound the most sincere because they have no guilt (because they have no conscience)

Praise the lord... you have shown us the light

I am sure MR Bush has always impressed you with his speaking ability and his NORMAL attitude

Will you leave the country if a Negro is voted in as president or just stay in some hole in Idaho or Wyoming?

Please don't assume his hatred is welcomed here. There is a lot of support for Obama in ID, a literal grass roots movement.

I like your quote at the bottom. You should copyright it. Too bad though, considering Bush's term is almost over.
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Blah,blah,blah..talking out my ass..blah,blah,blah.
:roll: You just don't get it. People aren't voting for Obama as much as they are voting against 4 more years of the last 8 years. Americans are sick to their stomachs over what you and your party did to our great country and want no part of you guys anymore.

 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Blah,blah,blah..talking out my ass..blah,blah,blah.
:roll: You just don't get it. People aren't voting for Obama as much as they are voting against 4 more years of the least 8 years. Americans are sick to their stomachs over what you and your party did to our great country and want no part of you guys anymore.

shouldn't we be voting for people, not parties?
 

Rockinacoustic

Platinum Member
Aug 19, 2006
2,460
0
76
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Blah,blah,blah..talking out my ass..blah,blah,blah.
:roll: You just don't get it. People aren't voting for Obama as much as they are voting against 4 more years of the least 8 years. Americans are sick to their stomachs over what you and your party did to our great country and want no part of you guys anymore.

shouldn't we be voting for people, not parties?

Nope, it's yet another lesser of two evils election, and we all know how well that went in '04.
 
Oct 27, 2007
17,009
5
0
Well the article doesn't go over anything that hasn't been discussed here at P&N but it's interesting to see it all put together. I notice it doesn't include Obama's flip-flop on troop withdrawal from 'immediate' to 'well, whenever it happens...'
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: Rockinacoustic
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Blah,blah,blah..talking out my ass..blah,blah,blah.
:roll: You just don't get it. People aren't voting for Obama as much as they are voting against 4 more years of the least 8 years. Americans are sick to their stomachs over what you and your party did to our great country and want no part of you guys anymore.

shouldn't we be voting for people, not parties?

Nope, it's yet another lesser of two evils election, and we all know how well that went in '04.
I agree though it could have been worse, it could have been between Clinton and McBush.