New 2023 traffic law for "Massholes".

[Captante]

Since this was probably 15 minutes before school dismisses, they would have been stuck there for 15+ minutes, and this is a semi-rural area. They were effectively blocking a state road for over 15 minutes, merely for their convenience.

You left the above out in your initial comment lol... sounded like some a-hole flying through a school-zone right past some kids.

Sounds more like the a-hole was the bus driver!

 

[VirtualLarry]

And sorry "Massholes" but BY FAR the worst drivers I've encountered anywhere in the US were in Florida with distant runner-up Arizona.

NYC drivers are freaking nuts too but at least the "crazy" drivers usually know how to operate a car to some small degree unlike the "gimpers" in "retirement" states.

I agree! MassHoles aren't "bad drivers" - quite the opposite. But they tend to be rather aggressive, because they want to get where they want to go in a hurry. But at least the traffic "moves" around here.

My late father used to complain about the traffic around Oregon, saying that they "don't" know how to drive. Like, all lanes of a 3-4 lane highway, and all the lanes are filled and all moving the same speed, leading to a sort of grid-lock approach.

Here in MA, the left-most lane is reserved for:
1) The State Police, patrolling the turnpike, and
2) Beemers doing 20 over, to get where they're going.
Oh, and occasionally,
3) Passing.

 

[MtnMan]

I guess that's a valid perspective, but maybe some more context might make things more understandable.

If you've never driven a go cart or some other vehicle that is a bit over powered, language is not going to let you feel what you need to in order to understand.

If I'm in traffic and I see a juicy opening, I can downshift and go from 30 to 70 in what feel like mere moments. All the other drivers blink and I'm gone.

On local roads that I know well, I like to take sharp curves at speed and feel how the tires are slipping ever so slightly.

I can go on, but if you've never experienced these things, it's unlikely that you would choose to now. You just have to realize that for some of use, driving is a completely immersive experience with dozens of different inputs coming at you every millisecond.

 

[Captante]

View attachment 74156

Not if you enjoy driving a car that handles well.

Also a Civic SI is STILL is Honda Civic not anything irresponsible like a Hellcat. (or a big fat wallowing pig of a pickup truck!)

 

[MtnMan]

@MtnMan Given how this convo has gone, I have ask if you understand that what I described is virtually impossible.

I don't know you well enough to know if you actually believe what you posted or not... for all I know, that maybe how you actually visualize your driving.

 

[repoman0]

View attachment 74156

No, he’s discussing enjoying driving for the sake of driving. It’s fun, you should try it sometime rather than bashing for no reason. They even have private race tracks one can drive on to really test the limits of their vehicle.

edit: that image is extra funny coming from that poster considering he has posted often here about how he never goes out in public without carrying a gun 😂😂😂

 

[Charmonium]

I don't know what I may have said in the past to makes you think that this kind of kindergarten pop psych was going to get you anywhere, but I strongly suspect that it will not. But by all means, feel free to post about how ineffective and feckless I am or whatever else you manage to conjure up.

I promise that I'll read every one. No response since we're past that point, but I will definitely read them

 

[Charmonium]

I don't know you well enough to know if you actually believe what you posted or not... for all I know, that maybe how you actually visualize your driving.

Look dude. Your primary objective is to get some sort of drama going here. I'm not interested. Even though I touch type, it'still work. And this is not worth my time or effort. But enjoy.

edit: Ooo, I can't wait to see what mental or moral infirmity he attributes this to

 

[MtnMan]

You left the above out in your initial comment lol... sounded like some a-hole flying through a school-zone right past some kids.

Sounds more like the a-hole was the bus driver!

No, I did not leave it out, you failed to read my previous post...

I have seen NC Highway Patrol stop someone for passing a stopped vehicle on a double yellow.

Private school parents lining up to pickup the kiddies, and the line backed out onto the main road (2-lane 35MPH). Car caught in that line sat there for a few minutes, and when safe passed about 5 cars waiting to pickup kiddo's. HP cruiser behind them whipped out and pulled them over.

 

[Captante]

@MtnMan Given how this convo has gone, I have ask if you understand that what I described is virtually impossible.

That "8k powerband" thing certainly is!

(I believe the redline in the '08' SI's engine is 7k no?)

 

[Captante]

No, I did not leave it out, you failed to read my previous post...

Am I missing something?

"Private school parents lining up to pickup the kiddies, and the line backed out onto the main road (2-lane 35MPH). Car caught in that line sat there for a few minutes, and when safe passed about 5 cars waiting to pickup kiddo's. HP cruiser behind them whipped out and pulled them over."


Doing something like that in front of a cop is asking to be pulled over.

(I will concede an actual arrest might be a bit harsh... a warning and/or a ticket sounds about right)

 

[Torn Mind]

Am I missing something?

"Private school parents lining up to pickup the kiddies, and the line backed out onto the main road (2-lane 35MPH). Car caught in that line sat there for a few minutes, and when safe passed about 5 cars waiting to pickup kiddo's. HP cruiser behind them whipped out and pulled them over."


Doing something like that in front of a cop is asking to be pulled over.

(I will concede an actual arrest might be a bit harsh... a warning and/or a ticket sounds about right)

Cops can and do at times abuse discretion if they think they can get away with it, but there are common law remedies for inflicting excessive loss of life, liberty, or property. An arrest is a deprivation of liberty, and can result in property loss or loss of life. Violations of the common law can include malicious prosecution, false arrest, false imprisonment. Even if litigation is not a clear win, the are costs paid if the defense does not fully vindicate the cop.
Thus, an actual nonconfrontational traffic stop with no "extra circumstances" will almost never result in an arrest.

Common law violations are essentially laws a victim has to pay the judiciary and the quasi-private industry of lawyers to enforce, and of which knowledge is not provided for free via the regular education system. And even the teaching of the Constitution in schools is in an idealistic, philosophical, or moralistic manner, and not any sort of "lawyerly" manner.

 

[Captante]

Cops can and do at times abuse discretion if they think they can get away with it

I agree however anything in a school-zone when kids are getting picked up (private or public school) is always going to get a cops full attention deserved or not ... this is just common sense.

School zones are pretty much "zero tolerance" zones for any moving violation. (as it should be!)

 

[IronWing]

I agree however anything in a school-zone when kids are getting picked up (private or public school) is always going to get a cops full attention deserved or not ... this is just common sense.

School zones are pretty much "zero tolerance" zones for any moving violation. (as it should be!)

Yep, as suggested above, Arizona has some awful drivers who will break pretty much every law on the books but… school zones are sacred. Total jackasses discover that they can go below the posted speed limits.

 

[Ajay]

Wow, this thread when off the rails .

 

[Captante]

Wow, this thread when off the rails .

Since when is that anything new around here?

 

[Torn Mind]

I agree however anything in a school-zone when kids are getting picked up (private or public school) is always going to get a cops full attention deserved or not ... this is just common sense.

School zones are pretty much "zero tolerance" zones for any moving violation. (as it should be!)

Cops should enforce traffic safety in schools zones, true, but the use of an arrest is not something that should be done by government just because the person "deserves it" based on ethical grounds or mere potential threat to life. The potential arrested party could very well suffer certain damages that he also has a right to recover if the facts justify such a case. If for example, a income earner whose job demands reporting to work daily "or else" is stuck in jail for a day or two and his work was not done, he has grounds for a lawsuit against the police department for lost wages. The vehicle he was driving may have also been impounded and a fee required for release, and there is potential stolen property by the impounder.

The legal system is very much a system, and thus whatever basis a rule used to enforce a law can have a legacy "in the future" that goes well beyond the intended "fix". In the U.S, law enforcement very much was aggressive in arresting over the smallest of things in the past; this wound up allowing civil rights movement lawyers to start a chain of appeals that landed in the Supreme Court and basically made a significant change to the law of the land. Possibly in response, the "non-incarcerable" offense got cooked up, and that basically is a way for the state to enforce laws without the risk of an chain of appeals that can be started. Without the threat of incarceration, there is no "right to counsel" or a public defender.

It's not just criminal law that used to have the of incarceration. Some code enforcement locales used to employ the penalty of criminal incarceration for non-compliance, including San Francisco. Camara vs. San Francisco was a case in which Camara denied entry of a code inspector into his facility, and got some jailing.


Also, from an "economic or bottom line" perspective, the cop would rather fine because it's less costly even without a threat of a lawsuit. He doesn't even have to show up in court for certain violations. It's better for "profit" to just fine and warn.

The points brought up by MtnMan can be summarized generally
1. The degree of actual material harm.
2. The safety issue of having a huge backlog of private vehicles, not schools buses,
3. The behavior of the driver was not reckless or aggressive

While none of these points can contradict a violation of law occurred or that the potential of harming a someone was created, they do
1. bring to light another matter of safety or cost to "society" due to inadequate vehicular space on private property(space to park) or the road itself(a second lane) to accommodate the number of cars at the time
2. the degree that the driver should be penalized.

In my locale, there is a car wash near a main throughfare. At some point, a notice by police showed up that the cars waiting in line for service may not spill over onto the main street.

 

[Captante]

 

[Torn Mind]

I don't know you well enough to know if you actually believe what you posted or not... for all I know, that maybe how you actually visualize your driving.

I don't know what I may have said in the past to makes you think that this kind of kindergarten pop psych was going to get you anywhere, but I strongly suspect that it will not. But by all means, feel free to post about how ineffective and feckless I am or whatever else you manage to conjure up.

I promise that I'll read every one. No response since we're past that point, but I will definitely read them

I hope my memory of info in both of your past posts is accurate, but I believe the conversation between you two is one between a former lawyer and a former first responder(fire/resuce). Soooo...yeah...

 

[Torn Mind]

I counter with the claim it's organized into two large separate pieces, and if you don't have time for it all, just read the bottom half. .

 

[MtnMan]

Am I missing something?

"Private school parents lining up to pickup the kiddies, and the line backed out onto the main road (2-lane 35MPH). Car caught in that line sat there for a few minutes, and when safe passed about 5 cars waiting to pickup kiddo's. HP cruiser behind them whipped out and pulled them over."


Doing something like that in front of a cop is asking to be pulled over.

(I will concede an actual arrest might be a bit harsh... a warning and/or a ticket sounds about right)

Let's clarify, the cars were stopped, had been stopped, waiting to make a right turn onto a street, that was also filled with parked cars, where most of them probably had the car in park, so you are supposed to sit there 15 - 20 minutes to continue down the state road to your house? Tell me you would just patiently sit there...

We know from Charmonium lack of patience stating he would "take the doors off a vehicle that wasn't doing the speed limit" that he wouldn't.

 

[Captante]

Tell me you would just patiently sit there...

Not having been there I'm unsure exactly what I would have done but I doubt I'd have ended up getting a ticket/pulled over whatever it was.

 

[MtnMan]

You left the above out in your initial comment lol... sounded like some a-hole flying through a school-zone right past some kids.

Sounds more like the a-hole was the bus driver!

PS this is not a school zone, the school is about half a mile down the side street.

 

[WelshBloke]

This thread reminds me that USA has the highest rate of fatal RTAs in the western world.

 

[Charmonium]

Well, maybe road raging was a bit much, but clearly aggressive driving is accurate.

I often wonder what motivates people to boast about how fast their car can go. What are they compensating for.

I love my wife, daughter, grandson's, and my dog. My car is just an inanimate object that is very useful when I want or need to go someplace.

It really baffles me how you manage to conclude that someone is over compensating. If you really see that as the only explantion, i not sure how you manage to surfive in the real worls.

I hope my memory of info in both of your past posts is accurate, but I believe the conversation between you two is one between a former lawyer and a former first responder(fire/resuce). Soooo...yeah...

You're never a former lawyer. Well there's some admin bullshit you need to deal with every year in Feb. If you can't manage to do that, I guess they dump you in one of the categories they have for non-practicing attorneys