Never quite (completely) happy with my PC purchases...

[dave_the_nerd]

I'm not sure where this rumor I run DC on a tablet started.

I like the idea of a power-saving, small, desktop "terminal", running either Windows or Linux.

There's nothing wrong with a terminal. But the idea with a terminal is that it's simply showing you what another more powerful computer is doing. AKA "thin client."

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Well, I was originally planning on buying the 1007U or 1037U-based Brix PCs, but they stopped making them, and the NUCs had the overheating problem, so that kind of left the NanoPC as the last remaining affordable choice.

And as far as the 7" Win8.1 tablets go, Atom is really the only choice for those, being low-TDP, but still acceptable performance. (Are there any other Intel x86-compatible quad-cores in 2.2W TDP envelope?)

Edit: I will say, I AM happy with my current HTPC. I don't do much video watching (not much of a HTPC, really), but it plays internet radio, and minds my MagicJack (which requires Windows, they never developed a MJ client for Linux).

I have an ECS mini-ITX (all solid caps) H61 board, and an iStarUSA "server" ITX case + 120W PSU, and a G1610 and a 120GB SSD.

Was toying with the idea of getting some more of these cases, and some ITX H81 / B85 boards, and building some more ITX rigs. I've got two G3258 CPUs, some DDR3 DIMMs, some 2.5" SSDs, etc.

You should probably sell all that and buy a real computer. You want SFF, check out my sig rigs.

You've mentioned doing computer support and consulting for cash - a much better business model, IMO, would be to offer free advice on which computer they should buy from Best Buy, and then offer in-home setup for half whatever Geek Squad charges. There's no money in assembling parts - and then you turn around and have to warranty crap. No thanks.

After that, charge $30/hour for training.

Soft skills, man. Training and support are where the money is. Screw this "fixed income" noise. :thumbsup:

P.S. - when you buy a computer to flip for a profit, don't forget to flip it for a profit.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Oh, and stop doing DC. That's a waste of time and money; for what? Bragging rights in some forum? e-peen? Humbug.

 

[Cerb]

P.S. - when you buy a computer to flip for a profit, don't forget to flip it for a profit.

I have to admit, I've had problems with that one, myself.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I have to admit, I've had problems with that one, myself.

Me too - hence my generally sour attitude towards trying to make money in hardware.

 

[VirtualLarry]

P.S. - when you buy a computer to flip for a profit, don't forget to flip it for a profit.

Uhm, I thought I did. Then they brought it back to me, with a "problem", and I thought that they wanted me to fix the problem, but they said that they didn't want it back. I think that they had a bad reaction to Windows 8.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Uhm, I thought I did. Then they brought it back to me, with a "problem", and I thought that they wanted me to fix the problem, but they said that they didn't want it back. I think that they had a bad reaction to Windows 8.

Heh.

Please refer to my above comment re: training and support services vs. hardware sales.

 

[cbn]

I like the idea of a power-saving, small, desktop "terminal", running either Windows or Linux.

How much power does it have to save?

I think the idea of these Windows 7 SFF refurbs is pretty hard to pass up (Example: Dell Optiplex 755 with 2.33 Ghz dual core (E6550), 2GB RAM, 80 GB HDD, Windows 7 (pretty sure it is 64 bit) for only $51.75 shipped ---> http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36985492&postcount=19 )

And yes, I did buy one.

However, with that mentioned I do think the upcoming generation of extremely low idle "just good enough" hardware is very interesting. I guess at some point a very low idle pays off....maybe for something that truly needs to be on 24/7 or even just a good part of the day (rather than just sleep). This especially if the new hardware has a very low purchase price including Windows licensing.

In any event, I will definitely be following and watching to see where the cross over points occur between the refurbed and new hardware. (My idea is that the cross-over points will occur at different points depending on the usage. Obviously a Core 2 desktop that is only on two hour or less per day (as a secondary desktop) will be easier to justify for a longer period of time than something that needs to idle 24/7 as previously mentioned.

 

[tential]

Oh, I completely accept that I don't know exactly what I want in terms of PCs. It's been more of a buy-n-try adventure the last two years or so. I see some new "bargain", and I invent a reason why I want / need that item, and then I attempt to integrate it as best I can.

Part of the problem is my seemingly conflicting goals. I like to do DC, and increase my points, but that generally requires a beefy desktop (often with multiple GPUs, if you want a really good score). I also want a small desktop that takes very little power.

So, I could bifurcate those conflicting goals, into two independent ones, and have both a summer and a winter computer rig, or I could compromise on each of them, which would essentially result in my building a few mini-ITX rigs, with Haswell i3s or G3258s.

The solution is very simple.
You need two pcs.

One small PC:
List EVERY task you plan on doing on it. If they don't align with a small PC, then don't get it because you worry so much about overheating but my guess is you're doing something that a small PC shouldn't because I have a 1U Server Chassis PC with 0 cooling (no fans) and it never overheats and I have a NUC that I've never had a single issue with.
Your small PC is for simple tasks, it accesses the Large Full PC for anything intensive.

One Full Fledged PC:
i5 is the most you probably need here.
However, if you insist on DC (Anyone want to inform me on DC? I don't do things that don't directly benefit me on my PC so what is this?), then you can upgrade the i5 later down the road with multiple GPUs if you insist. Seems like a waste of price/performance ratio if you aren't going to game with it just to get the GPUs for DC...
------------------

Don't think too hard. Don't go off on ebay and look for some cool special deal on some old parts you can re-purpose. Don't get some tiny niche product no one has heard of.
Get what's proven to work at the task you want to do.

Anyway, if you report back with exactly what task you plan on doing with each PC I listed, I'll spec some out for you.

 

[BSim500]

When will I be able to buy a 7/8" tablet, with USB2/3, and (micro)HDMI-out, with a 2.0Ghz quad-core, 4GB of RAM, and at least 64GB (preferably 128GB) of fast flash storage, that can function as both a tablet, and a desktop (when "docked" with charging, USB, and HDMI cables). Oh, and it should cost under $120.

Sounds like you're demanding too much for 1 device when maybe 2 devices will be more suitable / flexible (ie, a desktop / laptop + 7" tablet) and simply syncing the two? "Buy cheap, buy twice". Even at $200, an i5 that lasts 5 years = $40 per year which is less than the sales tax / VAT alone you have to be losing buying something new but inappropriate every 3 months (let alone money lost on the devices themselves).

Take a clean sheet of paper and start from scratch:-

- What do you actually NEED - and for what purpose? (as opposed to looking at hardware and imaging what it "could" do)
- Does every need have to be mobile?
- How often will you carry it around with you? Constantly like a phone or only occasionally?
- What tablet OS's FEEL best to you - Windows, Apple or Android?
- What applications will you run?
- How much space will you really save plugging a monitor + USB keyboard + USB mouse + powered USB hub into a tablet vs simply buying a Mini-ITX rig?
- What kind of "space" are you trying to save? Something *on* a desk (plus a USB hub next to it) actually takes up more usable space than a larger Micro-ATX tower *under* the desk.
- Have you already tried to use / test half the applications in actual practise on a 7" screen for a reasonable length of time, ie try and do 2-3hrs continuous work and not just "play" with mobile office for 10mins? Most people I know who originally wanted a 7" tablet for "mobile office" to replace their "bulky 15" laptop" ended up buying a proper ultra-portable 11-13" laptop with desktop Office due to the 7" screen size, lack of proper mobile keyboard & reduced mobile Office features not being good enough for even simple things like accurately selecting multiple sections of text in Word (which is about 8x quicker on a mouse than a stubby finger on a small high-PPI screen).

Don't bother chasing "the last watt" of power as you can easily build a sub-25w idle / sub-75w load full blown i5 desktop with the right components and a little bit of tweaking (still leaving it at 3.4GHz stock). Everything really does boil down to how many sacrifices will you make trying to turn a 7" tablet into a desktop. Tablets are still overwhelming *consumption* based devices - not production based devices. And much of that isn't tech specs (CPU, memory size, etc), but overall ergonomics (tiny screen, no integral keyboard, etc). Think about how that affects your needs, and don't just "believe" that you can replace a desktop with a tablet based on theoretical "well x app claims to do that just as well" until you've actually tried doing it yourself in practise.

 

[biostud]

Same reason I would never buy a tablet. I wouldn't feel satisfied. I have one from work, but I seldom use it. I always get annoyed by how sluggish it feels compared to my computers and I don't like the touch interface (ipad 4),

You really have to analyze what kind of work you're going to use it for and where. Also some upgrades doesn't really feel like upgrades if what you had really did what you needed it to do. When I upgraded from a i5-750 to 5820K I knew that it wouldn't a large difference in most scenarios for the work/gaming I do, but I had the itch. My best upgrades:

AMD 6850 -> GTX 670 -> 7990
First SSD
22" 1680x1050 TN -> 27" 2560x1440 IPS
IKEA chair -> leather office chair
Dali 8008 - > Dali mentor menuet

 

[Piroko]

I don't know if anyone else feels this way.

Never, actually.
My 'secret' is twofold, first I set at least one metric the new system has to at least double. Usually it was performance in programs I use. Then I take a realistic budget - e.g. 500€ for CPU+MoBo+Ram - and define it as unstretchable limit. Then I go shopping.
My history so far:
286DX (? can't remember tbh)
Pentium 133
Athlon 500
Athlon 64 3200+
Phenom II 720 BE
i5 4690k.

Yep, that's 6 systems for right around 20 years. All of them had their minor quirks and were OCed a fair share at the end of their lifecycle. All of them were a revelation when I finally did the next jump.
Honestly, it is really as simple as "use the system as long as it's working/bearable and then double up on its weakest metric. If you can't do that within your budget, then it's probably not yet time to upgrade".

 

[monstercameron]

Larry, i agree that all the sudden the c50 just got slower in my netbook. Runs androidx86 decent though! Just got the hp stream 14 with amd Mullins and it's great. I don't get how you are never quite happy...

 

[CoPhotoGuy]

When will I be able to buy a 7/8" tablet, with USB2/3, and (micro)HDMI-out, with a 2.0Ghz quad-core, 4GB of RAM, and at least 64GB (preferably 128GB) of fast flash storage, that can function as both a tablet, and a desktop (when "docked" with charging, USB, and HDMI cables). Oh, and it should cost under $120.

Give it 10 years.

I feel like you have expectations that don't align with reality.

 

[Markfw]

Oh, and stop doing DC. That's a waste of time and money; for what? Bragging rights in some forum? e-peen? Humbug.

F@H is all about curing cancer. Thats a waste of time ?

 

[Danrr]

Larry I had the same problem, but then I just realize that I should buy my stuff like any other stuff like a car.

I decide a budget, decide the platform, and buy the newest parts that are available at the moment, I don't like to think on future releases and wait because that stops me from buying the stuff, I like to approach this like I'm buying a car and I like to name the build something like "Budget PC 2014".

Then in 1-2 years (sometimes more) update the build "Budget PC 2014 2.0" or build a new one "Budget PC 2016".

If I'm not happy with the build I wait until I can buy a new PC "model" like cars.

 

[KingFatty]

Sorry if it's been discussed already, but could this be an example of the "hedonic treadmill"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

In other words, you will keep returning to a 'default' level of happiness about computing no matter what you buy. So if you are unhappy by default, no amount of fancy computer stuff can solve that. Instead, consider what is motivating your default level of happiness, because if you keep walking forever on the hedonic treadmill, you still won't change where you are.

 

[GMasonDragonDad]

After messing with hardware since the mid '80s and trying to save a few dollars where I can, I am at the point in my life that a few quality pieces are better than cheaper junk. Second rate equipment leaves an unsatisfied feeling. After being in an office with large numbers of HP corporate machines, that pretty much run for years with no issues, I am ditching the consumer line of equipment. (Running a HP Z220 @ home with an 20+ year old IBM Model M keyboard. cheap stuff like speakers, drives and peripheral are somewhat disposable.

My several AMD homebuilt systems had issues.. probably motherboard related. My intel (wolfdale) system, never game me any grief and ran great for five years. My cheap AMD laptop is 100% better since I moved it to an SSD, but it still studders a little with skype videos. Cheap printers always seem to have paper jams when I am in a hurry.

Moral of story.. invest in quality for critical functionality. skimp for toys that are not overly important.

 

[escrow4]

F@H is all about curing cancer. Thats a waste of time ?

What do scientists do all day? All that brainpower and we still don't have a cure for a whole host of diseases . . . do they smoke dro and browse youporn all day?

 

[2is]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36940258&postcount=118

Stop buying crap. I mean, it's worse than crap, it's the lowest end, absolute cheapest stuff you can find that you're buying, of course you aren't going to be satisfied. How much have you spent this year in "budget builds"? I'll bet it was enough to build a pretty kick ass system.

 

[VirtualLarry]

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=36940258&postcount=118

Stop buying crap. I mean, it's worse than crap, it's the lowest end, absolute cheapest stuff you can find that you're buying, of course you aren't going to be satisfied. How much have you spent this year in "budget builds"? I'll bet it was enough to build a pretty kick ass system.

Actually, I'm using that "$60 tablet" right now, hooked up to a 1080P monitor, and a wireless keyboard / mouse, and it's very adequate for browsing AT forums, Skype, and listening to internet radio (although, I have yet to try doing both internet radio and a Skype call at the same time). I think it being a quad-core helps.

There's a video on YouTube of someone that purchased one of these, and is driving not just one external display, but THREE! He shows it playing a 1080P video, spanning monitors, etc. Very impressive demo, and this tablet actually packs a lot of punch.

If only it had more RAM and eMMC storage, it would be perfect.

I think that these were one of my better purchases, as far as bang-for-buck goes. (Certainly way better than those Foxconn NanoPC barebones, that I had to also purchase a 4GB RAM SO-DIMM for, and an SSD. I wouldn't complain, if someone came out with a NanoPC barebones, with this quad-core Atom, for the same price as I paid for this tablet.)

 

[cbn]

When will I be able to buy a 7/8" tablet, with USB2/3, and (micro)HDMI-out, with a 2.0Ghz quad-core, 4GB of RAM, and at least 64GB (preferably 128GB) of fast flash storage, that can function as both a tablet, and a desktop (when "docked" with charging, USB, and HDMI cables). Oh, and it should cost under $120.

Those specs seem pretty reasonable for something in the Cherry Trail generation. (especially if that requirement for 2.0 Ghz quad core only refers to the turbo clocks) EDIT: Maybe 4GB RAM will still be a little tough to come by in the budget Cherry Trail offerings, but certainly we should expect to see a jump from 1GB RAM to 2GB RAM in the same price bracket.

P.S. My biggest complaint with 8" tablet hasn't been the hardware or software for general browsing (at least on the Android 4.4 unit I used)......its been the screen size. If screen size was 10" or greater potentially coupled to an optional lap-dock I could see it as a more serious machine. But then it seems like tablets with 10" or greater screens commands so much more money than 8" ones.

 

[2is]

You just erected this thread about not being satisfied and used that tablet as an example, now you're defending it in the same thread...

You're either happy with your purchases or you're not... Make up your mind. Buy something that suits you instead of attempting to acclimate yourself to the cheapest products you can get your hands on. That method is obviously not working.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Sorry if it's been discussed already, but could this be an example of the "hedonic treadmill"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill

In other words, you will keep returning to a 'default' level of happiness about computing no matter what you buy. So if you are unhappy by default, no amount of fancy computer stuff can solve that. Instead, consider what is motivating your default level of happiness, because if you keep walking forever on the hedonic treadmill, you still won't change where you are.

That could be it... or I'm not getting enough sunlight these days.

 

[Watrreindd]

Honestly, all configurations are flawed.I think you already have good computer configuration.