Ketchup
Elite Member
- Sep 1, 2002
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tolis626
Senior member
- Aug 25, 2013
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This. This is what I did a few months back. I even decided to throw in a big SSD and a nice mobo and case, just so I can look at it and feel proud that it's mine. In the years I spent with my increasingly crappier crappy laptop, I could've upgraded to something mediocre a dozen times. But no, I waited until I could afford something more than decent. So I overspent. Best money I've "thrown away" (as my friends said) ever, probably. Do I need the power? No. But for example I'm a tab freak. With my laptop (and most other desktops and laptops I've used, not just mine) I would run out of system resources (if it wasn't RAM, I would somehow strain the CPU or something) before I could reach 30 tabs. Right now I use Opera with more than 40 tabs open, I'm downloading/seeding some torrents, I listen to music (With Windows Media Player. I know, it's like using Internet Explorer, but I'm so used to it I don't bother with switching. It's decent), have a ton of other crap open (Origin, Steam, HWMonitor, Asus' crap, Baidu Antivirus, Samsung's Magician, Dropbox, Logitech's software, Unified Remote server for controlling the PC with my phone, and then some more I don't even remember) and, like, 10 minutes ago I was playing Battlefield 4 online (32 and 64 player maps) and then I Alt+Tab'ed out of it to check my mail and the thing DIDN'T BREAK A SWEAT. So I took a moment to appreciate what had just happened. And it happens every day more or less. And then there are guys with X99 and more than 16GB of RAM, so that's even more overkill. And it's even more awesome.
What point do I want to make with all that nonsense? Well, "Never half-arse two things, whole-arse one thing". With all the crap you've purchased without needing them, and with all the dissatisfaction it's caused, you could've as easily bought a nice desktop or even laptop. And you'd be happy. Or at least happier than you are now. Unless you have some impulse-buying thing you can't resist or something.
I just have to say. I'm a student and usually cannot afford a tenth of the stuff I want, because I always want the high-end expensive stuff. I will usually prefer not buying anything and keeping the money than buy something that might not satisfy me. But that's just my 2 cents.
Honestly OP, I saw this thread, saw the poster and Instantly said to myself:
"because you make horrendous decisions."
Sorry, that's just the truth.
I've seen each of your threads and you do the same ridiculous thing.
You have A intention
Product is for B intention.
Product is for A intention.
Rather than pick up Product A, you pick up product B because you just need to try some niche product.
If you simply purchased the correct product for the task at hand you wouldn't have wasted so much money on other things. The sad thing is you're a regular member here with 25,000 posts and you'd think you could figure out what product you need to do the necessary task.
Why you purchased Kabini for example for EVERYDAY computing? I don't know. I really don't. Because I purchased my J1900 (essentially Kabini) and I'm REALLY happy with it. Why? Because I bought it for the correct task. VERY light usage, it essentially is a small server running ubuntu.
You'll never be satisfied with your purchases VirtualLarry because quite frankly, you make bad decisions.
You'll be mad with me for this post, you won't like it, but it's the gods honest truth and SOMEONE needs to tell you it.
"because you make horrendous decisions."
Sorry, that's just the truth.
I've seen each of your threads and you do the same ridiculous thing.
You have A intention
Product is for B intention.
Product is for A intention.
Rather than pick up Product A, you pick up product B because you just need to try some niche product.
If you simply purchased the correct product for the task at hand you wouldn't have wasted so much money on other things. The sad thing is you're a regular member here with 25,000 posts and you'd think you could figure out what product you need to do the necessary task.
Why you purchased Kabini for example for EVERYDAY computing? I don't know. I really don't. Because I purchased my J1900 (essentially Kabini) and I'm REALLY happy with it. Why? Because I bought it for the correct task. VERY light usage, it essentially is a small server running ubuntu.
You'll never be satisfied with your purchases VirtualLarry because quite frankly, you make bad decisions.
You'll be mad with me for this post, you won't like it, but it's the gods honest truth and SOMEONE needs to tell you it.
- Aug 25, 2001
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For a point of reference, I have over 150 tabs open (with Noscript) in Waterfox, on my 1007U laptop with 4GB RAM. I also have Skype, CoreTemp, and a few other programs open. My commit charge is around 4.5GB. CPU usage is 10-30%. So you don't need a monster rig for many tabs.
Those are wise words. I guess I fall prey to the "New! Shiny!" tech ads. I like to have a steady stream of new tech to play with. I'm on a fixed income, and have issues with saving. (And if I were to save too much, "they" would hold it against me.)
- Aug 25, 2001
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For the record, I mostly bought the Kabini 1.4Ghz AIO to flip. List price was $500, I paid around $172 with tax, it seemed like a good deal at the time. I didn't see how I could lose.
And I generally don't use it for everyday computing, I use it as a (big) internet radio player. (It has great speakers.)
Was it a bad decision to buy the Foxconn C-70 based NanoPC? I had a (now dead) C-60 Netbook that I really liked. Many Newegg reviews praised it as a HTPC running XBMC and playing back 1080P video. None of those reviews mentioned that it got hot enough to literally cook SSDs that were installed in the small chassis. Was that my bad decision?
Skype used to work fine on my C-60 Netbook. But 6-12 months later, it was taking 50% more CPU time. Was that my bad decision, not anticipating Skype CPU bloat?
Is it my fault for trusting Newegg reviews?
Is it my bad decision for listening to those on this forum that claim that AMD's performance isn't really as bad as the allegedly-biased benchmarks show? My fault for not automatically buying Intel's "biggest" core CPUs, but instead, choosing to explore smaller form-factors?
I don't think that it would be wise, to purchase a 4790K for a HTPC, for example.
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I have a 7400k, it works well as HTPC, even light gaming on low settings, great for browsing and netflix. Thought nbcnews site is full of bloat and the autoplay news videos when i open multiple tabs is annoying and bogs down the system.
Yes... Yes it was your fault for EACH and EVERY ONE OF THOSE DECISIONS. Because YOU made them. That's the issue, you need to take ownership of your actions and figure out why you made the bad decision in the first place. That's what allows us as human beings to become smarter.
Don't act like you need to purchase Intel's biggest cores. That's just a copout for your own mistakes and not identifying the proper processor you needed.
Don't blame those people who told you AMD's performance isn't as bad as benchmarks show either. You had the benchmarks infront of you. NO reason to ignore them, especially when it's a small minority of users telling you to ignore them (again, this is your penchant for buying something new and shiny and you are making an EXCUSE to do so).
And PLEASE don't blame smaller formfactors. I have a NUC from intel that is amazingly fast and my family has asked me to build multiples of them and they consume what? Under 8 watts idle and 20-30 watts at Load?
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Look, I said I wasn't going to be nice, I'm not a nice person. I'm going to tell you the truth, because too many people are far too nice and don't tell people things how it is.
You want a great HTPC? Post it in the HTPC section. Poofyguy would have ENSURED you had a great HTPC, and chances are I would also be there and tell you the exact same thing.
Look, we all screw up and make bad decisions. You've already said, you have an eye for shiny new gadgets. And that you don't like to save money and you like to spend it. This is the result of simply spending money without really having all the facts in front of you. Honestly, I read your threads and are mindboggled as to how you even found out about some of these products to use in these tasks. A C-60 as an HTPC?
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=161596
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=141537
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=135877
No, the issues were not worth the reward. Not when there were SO MANY other proven products in that price range. No one was recommending this product, you simply found something and purchased it.
Part of the issue is you don't even post in the right section. There is NO WAY, Poofyguy would have let you purchase the C-60 if you had posted in the HTPC section. I know how that guy posts, he posts exactly the same recommendations I end up posting 95% of the time.
Don't act like you need to purchase Intel's biggest cores. That's just a copout for your own mistakes and not identifying the proper processor you needed.
Don't blame those people who told you AMD's performance isn't as bad as benchmarks show either. You had the benchmarks infront of you. NO reason to ignore them, especially when it's a small minority of users telling you to ignore them (again, this is your penchant for buying something new and shiny and you are making an EXCUSE to do so).
And PLEASE don't blame smaller formfactors. I have a NUC from intel that is amazingly fast and my family has asked me to build multiples of them and they consume what? Under 8 watts idle and 20-30 watts at Load?
----------------
Look, I said I wasn't going to be nice, I'm not a nice person. I'm going to tell you the truth, because too many people are far too nice and don't tell people things how it is.
You want a great HTPC? Post it in the HTPC section. Poofyguy would have ENSURED you had a great HTPC, and chances are I would also be there and tell you the exact same thing.
Look, we all screw up and make bad decisions. You've already said, you have an eye for shiny new gadgets. And that you don't like to save money and you like to spend it. This is the result of simply spending money without really having all the facts in front of you. Honestly, I read your threads and are mindboggled as to how you even found out about some of these products to use in these tasks. A C-60 as an HTPC?
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=161596
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=141537
http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=135877
No, the issues were not worth the reward. Not when there were SO MANY other proven products in that price range. No one was recommending this product, you simply found something and purchased it.
Part of the issue is you don't even post in the right section. There is NO WAY, Poofyguy would have let you purchase the C-60 if you had posted in the HTPC section. I know how that guy posts, he posts exactly the same recommendations I end up posting 95% of the time.
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Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
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What AMD's? I've only ever seen you mention their Atom competitors, where the benchmarks are hardly biased either way.
Hardly anyone automatically chooses the biggest core CPUs. Even then, how often do you see here (well, GH) people talked down to i3s from i5s, or i5s from i7s, much less 2011 to 1150? Often. SFF can be done with desktop CPUs just fine, DIY or prebuilt. Lenovo has several very small i5 desktops in their outlet right now, for example--real Thinkcentres. Then there's the NUCs, Brix, the Zotac boxes...
It's not small form factor, but low price and low performance. Smaller than MicroATX greatly reduces flexibility, so isn't commonly built, except for certain purposes. But, good performance in tiny boxes is quite available, if that's what you're after. You just have to plan for it, and when the time comes, pay for it.
When my PC decided to die (while the way it died was odd, there had been recent storms, and I never had replaced the surge protector--it was late 90s vintage), I had an idea of what I wanted, a budget, a set of existing parts, and I stuck to both my minimum performance goals and budget. The only two things I don't like are my SSD's space (480GB, which I'm growing into, but I don't see much point in a mere space doubling), video card's loudness under load (though, it is by far the quietest non-modded fan-equipped one I have ever owned), and audio setup (long story, with another long story beginning where that one ends
), which are pretty minor. While a bit slower (but also $70+ cheaper ) than if I had bought it today, I am quite content with its performance. I reached that by not chasing leftovers and deals, but setting requirements to meet.Atoms and the small AMDs (both of which are leaking into regular product brands
) work well with the right use cases, for which there are many, but they need constraints on processing requirements. They will also work for an HTPC, but you need a specific set of features you want that they can do, and no more. HTPC is quite vague; one person might very well use an i7-4790K, while another will be happier than a pig in mud with a Raspberry Pi and USB HDD.
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@Cerb
Don't wanna sidetrack the thread, but you'd really use a RasPi with a USBHDD rather than networked storage =D?
Don't wanna sidetrack the thread, but you'd really use a RasPi with a USBHDD rather than networked storage =D?
tweakboy
Diamond Member
- Aug 25, 2001
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To be specific, I don't recall seeing anyone benchmark Skype CPU usage at any review site. And since I had personal experience with it working on a C-60, why would I need to see benchmarks before deciding it was or wasn't going to work on a C-70? How am I at fault for not being prescient enough to know Skype's CPU usage would go from 50-60% to 95% of that APU?
Let me ask this, do you size your CPUs, assuming that the applications that you run on it today, will take a whole 50% MORE CPU time 12 months from now?
(Edit: To clarify, I'm not talking about games, I'm talking about mundane desktop apps.)
But at least it was documented with the early NUC units that they would overheat the mSATA SSD and they would crash. That's one reason I avoided the NUC. Apparently I was mistaken in thinking that the full-sized 2.5" drive in the Foxconn NanoPC wouldn't suffer the same fate.
Was the HTPC section even in existence when I bought those NanoPCs?
Note that I was using Win7 64-bit, and none of those threads document any issues with video playback under Windows 7. My issue was with Skype.
Again, I'm curious, when did the HTPC sub-forum open here on AT forums?
Edit: The sticky post in HTPC is dated 2012, and I bought my NanoPCs in 2013.
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You don't have set goal and expectations, that's your problem.
You buy tablet when you want desktop and running DC on it, expecting it to work is not real.
If you just wanna play with and try out the newest electronic junk then there is nothing to be not happy about if you like to it.
You buy tablet when you want desktop and running DC on it, expecting it to work is not real.
If you just wanna play with and try out the newest electronic junk then there is nothing to be not happy about if you like to it.
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http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2408572
Hey, it works for some people. Plus, if you're on a budget, why not, I guess.
evident
Lifer
- Apr 5, 2005
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this current i7-2600K with z68 motherboard, SSD and 16gb RAMhas lasted me longer than any other build i made in the last 10 years. also really happy with my i3-3225 based HTPC too.
just spend the money once instead of all the cheap crap bay trail atoms and stuff i've been seeing you post about recently. i hope i dont come off as harsh when i say that either. i think we both agreed in other threads that manufactuers are charging scam prices for underpowered machines like the bay trails and am frankly confused to see that you actually ended up purchasing some of them
just spend the money once instead of all the cheap crap bay trail atoms and stuff i've been seeing you post about recently. i hope i dont come off as harsh when i say that either. i think we both agreed in other threads that manufactuers are charging scam prices for underpowered machines like the bay trails and am frankly confused to see that you actually ended up purchasing some of them
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- Aug 25, 2001
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I'm not sure where this rumor I run DC on a tablet started.
I like the idea of a power-saving, small, desktop "terminal", running either Windows or Linux.
Of course a 4790K isn't sufficient for a HTPC, you need a 5960X at least to run all those x265 pornos . . . . . . .
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
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No, but I've seen it done, with the RPi being the NAS (I guess some people only use NAS for audio/video storage), and said users being happy with it. Me? I have more ambition and less sense, with no care for video; and am waiting to try to work on, and hopefully make, what amounts to a Squeezebox on steroids.
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- Aug 25, 2001
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- Aug 25, 2001
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Well, I was originally planning on buying the 1007U or 1037U-based Brix PCs, but they stopped making them, and the NUCs had the overheating problem, so that kind of left the NanoPC as the last remaining affordable choice.
And as far as the 7" Win8.1 tablets go, Atom is really the only choice for those, being low-TDP, but still acceptable performance. (Are there any other Intel x86-compatible quad-cores in 2.2W TDP envelope?)
Edit: I will say, I AM happy with my current HTPC. I don't do much video watching (not much of a HTPC, really), but it plays internet radio, and minds my MagicJack (which requires Windows, they never developed a MJ client for Linux).
I have an ECS mini-ITX (all solid caps) H61 board, and an iStarUSA "server" ITX case + 120W PSU, and a G1610 and a 120GB SSD.
Was toying with the idea of getting some more of these cases, and some ITX H81 / B85 boards, and building some more ITX rigs. I've got two G3258 CPUs, some DDR3 DIMMs, some 2.5" SSDs, etc.
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Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
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Then, if you want good performance, you buy nothing. After awhile, you will have not bought enough to just get a good Brix or ZBOX. They will cost as much as a larger form factor, if not more, but they will perform like a real desktop, while still being tiny.
you should probably give up on the ultra low power stuff, 60-150W are fine for a PC, you can buy some cheap i3 + h81 and have a good PC for years without worrying to much about it.
This again is you looking for any way to not take ownership of your own issues. Even look at the issue with the NanoPC. You looked to say "Was the HTPC subforum even available?" Rather than look for a place to post your HTPC question, you're looking for something to blame like the HTPC subforum not being around when it in fact was (as you later found out).
Look, we're trying to help you, and it's not just me that has pointed out out. It's what multiple users now all saying the same thing. The sad thing is, you've made a THREAD saying you're not happy with your PC purchases and we're trying to explain to you why, and you're still defensive.
The issues are simple:
You purchase new "shiny things" (You admit this)
You spend money because you're bad at saving (You've admitted this)
You're on a fixed income and "they" would hold it against you if you saved (You've admitted this)
You don't have a fixed goal in mind and purchase the correct, proven hardware to achieve this goal (For some reason you can't seem to admit this)
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The first step of anything is taking responsibility for your actions, and figuring out what you could have done better in the situation. You're an adult, start acting like one.
- Aug 25, 2001
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Oh, I completely accept that I don't know exactly what I want in terms of PCs. It's been more of a buy-n-try adventure the last two years or so. I see some new "bargain", and I invent a reason why I want / need that item, and then I attempt to integrate it as best I can.
Part of the problem is my seemingly conflicting goals. I like to do DC, and increase my points, but that generally requires a beefy desktop (often with multiple GPUs, if you want a really good score). I also want a small desktop that takes very little power.
So, I could bifurcate those conflicting goals, into two independent ones, and have both a summer and a winter computer rig, or I could compromise on each of them, which would essentially result in my building a few mini-ITX rigs, with Haswell i3s or G3258s.
Why Mini-ITX over Micro-ATX? You pay a premium for mobos, cases and PSUs.
For a small desktop that takes very little power... why not just make one high-performance rig...
then underclock!
Cerb
Elite Member
- Aug 26, 2000
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As to this, I assume needs will go up over time, and the CPU tends to not dominate the total cost, so barely good enough should be left to appliances. If you're cutting it that close with mundane usage, and have other functional PCs, like Core 2s, stick to those Core 2s, for the time being. New low-end platforms are still inferior, in terms of CPU performance.
Those tiny cores are only just now getting to be as fast as the slowest early Core 2 Duos, and have to run at higher speeds to pull that off. USB 3.0, decent IGP, fast SATA, etc., are nice for low-end boxes and all, but they are not in the same league as new platforms with uncrippled fat cores. With 2.5-3GHz Core 2 and Athlon II boxes often going for under $100 (I saw one for $50 as-is at my local Good Will, a few weeks ago), I don't see them being worth it even for the cost, if you can manage used systems. Not only that, but those PCs are way more green than any new PC, being already manufactured.
A C-60 was acceptable for a small firewall, NAS box, kiosk, etc., or a small notebook aimed at cost and battery life, where P4-ish performance wasn't a problem. As a plugged in normal desktop? No. An E-350, maybe, for low end or small and low power, at the time, but not a C-60. That's cutting it too close. I've got a fire-breather P4 firewall to replace, for example (not too soon, and I really want to leave it, but how much more time does it really have before it dies?). It's been super reliable, obviously, but it's noisy, hot, and a single-core 1st-gen Atom would be more than enough. But, neither an old (Cyrix) or new (Bobcat) Geode, nor common router, has the needed performance (needs to handle multiple non-offloadable VPN connections for a business). Those little Intel and AMD CPUs are amazing for it. That's not a regular desktop, though.
Yet, with DC, that goes out the window. Low power means no DC, or low DC performance. There is no way around that. A summer and winter rig will just give you one more cycle of your problem, compared to one solid rig, as would basically anything else, like multiple lower-end systems. A single i7-4790K box will get you more performance than two i3 boxes. A single i7-5960X will get you close to as much performance as two whole i7-4790K boxes, at stock speed (a 500MHz OC will even them out). The higher performance single PC will get better interactive desktop performance, and better performance for power used, unless you pay even more, for SFF systems with mobile quad-core i7s.
No DC puts it right on the mobo and PSU (-40mV offset, but <10W is still typical):
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