Networking for Small Business

[LuNoTiCK]

I'm trying to help someone who doesn't exactly have a ton of money set up a small business.

He'll have a few employee's and trying to make everything as budget conscious as possible.

Does it really make that much more sense to hire a professional to wire everything? Is crimping your own cables really that bad? What about buying solid cable and having an electrician wire that, would that work? I know one, except he doesn't wire computer cables.

Also, what kind of switch would be decent? We need something for a phone system as well, looking for something budget minded.

I think it will be like 5 small small office rooms, and somewhat of a big common area, it all needs to be wired. I tried searching, but couldn't really find too many clear answers. Thanks

 

[Pantlegz]

you shoudl be able to punch down(into a walljack) wihtout issues but you don't want to make your own patch cables. It's more reliable and not much more expeisive to buy a few shorter cables. You, or anyone, with a decent punchdown tool should be able to wire something this small just fine. As far as switches go, I would suggest Cisco, maybe with PoE if they want to go with VoIP phones. That's something that could get a little expensive tho, what sort of budgest are we talking about here?

 

[LuNoTiCK]

The budget isn't really determined, but cheaper is of course better.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

I plan on buying cables from a place like monoprice, it doesn't say if it's solid or stranded, I am guessing there's no worries though with premade cables.

Do I have to worry about it being around other wires, like the electric cable?

Voip or no voip, it doesn't really matter, just whatever's cheapest.

 

[theevilsharpie]

you shoudl be able to punch down(into a walljack) wihtout issues but you don't want to make your own patch cables. It's more reliable and not much more expeisive to buy a few shorter cables. You, or anyone, with a decent punchdown tool should be able to wire something this small just fine.

This. Every time someone uses a home-made patch cable in a production network, God kills a kitten. You wouldn't want that, would you? :awe:

Self-made patch cables can fail in mysterious ways (even if it passes a link test) that can be incredibly tedious to troubleshoot. Unless you're talking thousands of cables, it's not worth it to make your own. You can get high-quality patch cables for a low price for cabling vendors (NOT consumer retailers).

As far as switches go, I would suggest Cisco, maybe with PoE if they want to go with VoIP phones.

Disagree. Cisco's small business line is crap, and their enterprise line is too expensive for what you get.

If the customer is really budget conscious, you might be able to safely get away with unmanaged "Prosumer" switches like Netgear Prosafe, Linksys Small Business, or any other switch that's not in a cheap plastic case.

If requirements call for a managed switch, go with HP ProCurve.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

This. Every time someone uses a home-made patch cable in a production network, God kills a kitten. You wouldn't want that, would you? :awe:

Self-made patch cables can fail in mysterious ways (even if it passes a link test) that can be incredibly tedious to troubleshoot. Unless you're talking thousands of cables, it's not worth it to make your own. You can get high-quality patch cables for a low price for cabling vendors (NOT consumer retailers).



Disagree. Cisco's small business line is crap, and their enterprise line is too expensive for what you get.

If the customer is really budget conscious, you might be able to safely get away with unmanaged "Prosumer" switches like Netgear Prosafe, Linksys Small Business, or any other switch that's not in a cheap plastic case.

If requirements call for a managed switch, go with HP ProCurve.

A managed switch is not required now, but what do you think of something like this? Adequate? There won't be more than 8 computers

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-090-_-Product


Should I terminate more than 2 cat6 cables at each location? 1 for phone, 1 for internet. I'm actually a bit confused about running it for the phone, but seems to be what a lot of people are doing.

Another question,

Do I use this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10519&cs_id=1051903&p_id=6178&seq=1&format=2

With something like this?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10517&cs_id=1051703&p_id=1098&seq=1&format=2

Thanks

 

[JackMDS]

May be you want to read this first, http://www.ezlan.net/CAT.html

.

 

[Pantlegz]

A managed switch is not required now, but what do you think of something like this? Adequate? There won't be more than 8 computers

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-090-_-Product


Should I terminate more than 2 cat6 cables at each location? 1 for phone, 1 for internet. I'm actually a bit confused about running it for the phone, but seems to be what a lot of people are doing.

Another question,

Do I use this
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10519&cs_id=1051903&p_id=6178&seq=1&format=2

With something like this?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10517&cs_id=1051703&p_id=1098&seq=1&format=2

Thanks

If you're doing VoIP you'd want managed switches for VLANs and trunking if you're not doing VoIP then I'd go with whatever consumer 8-12 port switch. There's really no need for gigabit unless you're doing lots of massive file transfers.

Also, most VoIP phones have an in and out for CAT cables so you can just go through the phone to the computer with just patch cables rather than doing 2 drops to each location. But again for this to work you would have to be able to trunk, I'm not sure what the price difference for VoIP vs a digital PBX or just getting 5 or 6 analog lines would be. That's something I'll let you, or them, look into and decide which is better for the price.

 

[deimos3428]

I'm going to go against the grain here, mostly because I've seen a lot of really horrible DIY implementations in my career. If you're just wiring up a patch panel or two in a computer room, sure, you can do that yourself. It's not complicated.

Hiring a professional becomes a worthwhile consideration if you're running permanent cabling between walls, under floors, along ceilings, or installing wall jacks. There are right ways to do so -- and many very wrong ways to do so.

Even though I might recommend such a project at home, I wouldn't recommend a lot of DIY projects in a business environment. Beyond the obvious reliability issues and the business impact they can create, you also need to consider things like employee safety, insurance, fire codes, etc.

Unless you're talking thousands of cables, it's not worth it to make your own. You can get high-quality patch cables for a low price for cabling vendors (NOT consumer retailers).

It is generally not worth your time to crimp custom patch cables in volume, given the minor savings involved. But it is a myth that they are "unfit for production". That's only the case when the person making them doesn't know how to do so. It's a valuable skill to learn but it does take practice. A professional cabler can consistenently produce cables every bit as reliable as any premade -- often more so because they check their work rigorously.

 

[Emulex]

hp 1800G-24 is nice web managed and cheap.

the hp 2524g or 2548G are really nice.

always buy pre-made cables - our armed forces requires pre-made - they might have some reason for this. maybe not having a crappy wire take out infrastructure (monoprice.com !) - but if you have a qualified person do the wiring with your own qualified parts - go for it. big $$

voip phones usually have a switch built in so you can rock 1 drop

 

[drebo]

If you're doing VoIP you'd want managed switches for VLANs and trunking if you're not doing VoIP then I'd go with whatever consumer 8-12 port switch. There's really no need for gigabit unless you're doing lots of massive file transfers.

Also, most VoIP phones have an in and out for CAT cables so you can just go through the phone to the computer with just patch cables rather than doing 2 drops to each location. But again for this to work you would have to be able to trunk, I'm not sure what the price difference for VoIP vs a digital PBX or just getting 5 or 6 analog lines would be. That's something I'll let you, or them, look into and decide which is better for the price.

You do not need managed switches for a VOIP deployment. Unless you have several hundred phones and security is absolutely key, there's just no real need to segregate voice traffic out.

Additionally, the incremental cost of running two cables to each drop is negligable at best. Run two. Or three. The real cost is in the labor and the time to actually RUN the cables. The cost of the keystones and the larger patch panel is almost nothing in comparison. More drops is better. Always.

Additionally, if you run CAT5E or CAT6 for your phones, you can run both analog and VoIP over them. The cost difference between CAT5E and CAT3 is tiny, so there's no point in using CAT3 anymore, unless you know 100% that you will never have to push data over that line. It's safer to do one CAT6 and one CAT5E or two CAT6 per drop.

Planning for VoIP is not necessarily a bad thing, even if you only plan to get cheap 4-line phones from Office Max and pass on the whole PBX thing for now. Your operating costs will probably be higher, but implementation will be cheap. Another alternative would be a Hosted PBX. This is a relatively new VoIP system that basically operates like a Centrex...all of the call processing and everything else is handled by the service provider and the only equipment at your location are the phones. Benefits include (at least in my case) $0 capital expense and no contract oblications.

There are lots of choices, but the bottom line is run two lines per drop and buy factory-crimped patch cables. Without more details about what exactly your friend is wanting to do, it's not possible to help you further. That is, of course, one of the major benefits of hiring someone else to do the job: they'll come by, survey the site, and tell you what needs to be done...rather than attempting to guess at it.

 

[LuNoTiCK]

The hosted PBX sounds like a good idea, I'll have to compare that with prices from Verizon who is always a ripoff.

I need to also look into the costs of hiring a professional to do that, I hear the average price is $100 a drop, I would think getting two drops in each room is not much more work. Do you guys think factory-crimped patch cables will provide as good results as a professional? I also have to look into the safety of this, what if I asked an electrician to do this, I would assume they could get the wiring done safely, although the one I know doesn't do computer cable.

With the cost difference, the cable price isn't going to be that much, I'll buy all Cat6.

Would you guys suggest monoprice or some other place to get the cable from? One problem I have is it looks like their 100ft cable is stranded, not solid, will that be okay?

You guys have been a great help, thanks

 

[drebo]

The hosted PBX sounds like a good idea, I'll have to compare that with prices from Verizon who is always a ripoff.

I need to also look into the costs of hiring a professional to do that, I hear the average price is $100 a drop, I would think getting two drops in each room is not much more work. Do you guys think factory-crimped patch cables will provide as good results as a professional? I also have to look into the safety of this, what if I asked an electrician to do this, I would assume they could get the wiring done safely, although the one I know doesn't do computer cable.

With the cost difference, the cable price isn't going to be that much, I'll buy all Cat6.

Would you guys suggest monoprice or some other place to get the cable from? One problem I have is it looks like their 100ft cable is stranded, not solid, will that be okay?

You guys have been a great help, thanks

Don't use patch cables to do this. You need to run solid core bulk cabling through the walls (or above the ceiling or below the floor or through raceway) and terminate it to keystones at each location. A professional will be able to tell you which way would be best (depending on various details about your building, such as the frame type, whether you have a T-bar ceiling, raised foundation, etc). Also, a professional WILL use factory crimped cables for patch cables.

Spec in building wiring calls for no more than 90 meters of solid core, with 5 meters of stranded patch on each side. Will a 100ft stranded patch cable work? Probably, but it's not to spec and doesn't last nearly as long.

An electrician can probably do this, but he won't certify the cabling. Make absolutely sure that whoever you contract to do this certifies the cabling that he has installed. Additionally, he shouldn't charge you anything extra to certify it. The device costs ~$5k, but it really only takes about 45 seconds to do per run. A certified low voltage contractor is what you want.

Also, check references. There are a lot of really, really bad "consultants" out there that will do a shoddy job and overcharge you. Ask whoever you talk to for a list of references and then definitely check them.

Trust me. I do these kinds of jobs (well, supervise and plan) for a living. I've come across more crappy cabling than I care to say. It's imperative that it's done right, because almost half of all computer problems start with the network. In case you were wondering, most of the other half come from operator error.