Networked new house, saw bad building! Updated

[Vicken]

I am in the process of constructing a new house with a local builder (which I won't name yet). The house AC wiring is just about finished. I was wiring the house for cat 5, cable tv, and some phone lines, and I noticed some bad things in the carpentry side of the construction. I'll try and get pictures next week and post them. The house has concrete walls except for one wall near the master bedroom. That wall is all done with OSB. That wall has two sliding glass doors and little room for concrete. The house is located in FL (FL building code). Here's a summary of what I noticed.

A few missing nuts where the plywood is bolted to the concrete wall.

a few split or cracked wood on the interor walls.

A gap between the walls where the OSB meets the concrete near the master bedroom. It's about 1/2 inch I think. You can literally see outside. Is this normal? I'd imagine they cover it with something.

Nails sticking out on one of the interor walls. I specially showed this to the super and all he said that it was a dead wall. I don't care if it was a dead wall. I saw 6 nails sticking out.

I noticed some wood boards on the roof were toed in. (nailed at an angle with the end of the nail sticking through the wood) Is this supposed to be like that? Thing was, it wasn't toed on all the boards.

One of the horizontal interor wall pieces is too short and you can see the nail in between.

Master Bedroom Window Sill was compeletely removed and damaged leaving a 2 inch gap in the window. I have no idea why it was removed. It wasn't damaged until they removed it to my knowledge.

Nails were offset and missed the stud in the garage. They just went through OSB and didnt hold anything.

They had small pieces of wood nailed to the insulation on the concrete wall to hold the dry wall. Thing was, almost all of these were split from being nailed way too hard.

What really sucked is that they didnt put any reinforcement on the interior walls at all. No wood going horizontal between the studs. I can bang on the studs and they will shake.

I already talked to the super and he was being a real jerk. Not cooperative at all. Hopefully I can get in touch with the main boss man really soon, but he's hardly in his office.

If I can get pictures posted on my website next week, can anyone in the construction biz can tell me how bad it is?

On the good news, So far, the plumbing, electrical, and A/C duct was all done well. However, I wish I could say the same about the carpenting.

Should I bother contacting the bank and tell them what I saw? I have a construction loan and they are proving the builder with the money.
Anyone else I can contact. I know I can hire a private inspector, but I don't know how much that would cost.

What do I do if the President is a jerk even after I show him pictures? Anyone I can contact?

PS: will definitely show off my patch panels and network cabinet once the house is built. It's gonna be sweet

 

[Sepen]

My brother is in business just N of Miami and I know that there are very strict building codes. Why don't you call the Builing Inspector in your area and voice your concerns. Hey, it is your home and you should be satisfied 100%. If they get pissed and what you are doing, then they aren't very good business people. Do it quickly before it is covered up. Oh and yes, take pictures.

 

[XeonTux]

I'm not sure how much a private inspector costs either, but it might not be a bad idea to entertain the thought if you are concerned.

 

[chansen]

Based on this post, start a deficiency list beofre these items are boarded or covered over for good. The builiding inspector should be called by the contractor beofre covering electrical and mechanical work, but carpentry work is often overlooked.



<< A few missing nuts where the plywood is bolted to the concrete wall.

- Cast-in-place anchor bolts with no nuts? Especially if you live in a high wind zone, tell the builder to add nuts.

a few split or cracked wood on the interor walls.

- "Wood is a natural product". Interior studs are often not load-bearing, but if warped, your wall could look like an optical illusion. Post pics and measurements of any warping.

A gap between the walls where the OSB meets the concrete near the master bedroom. It's about 1/2 inch I think. You can literally see outside. Is this normal? I'd imagine they cover it with something.

- I assume they will use an expandable foam product, but the OSB isn't what will keep the rain out. The builder should still use a good building paper (like DuPont Tyvek - remember the 5 1/4" floppy disk sleeves?) under whatever the finished surface is.

Nails sticking out on one of the interor walls. I specially showed this to the super and all he said that it was a dead wall. I don't care if it was a dead wall. I saw 6 nails sticking out.

- Take a hammer. Make six blows. Sometimes it's easier just to do these little things yourself than it is to argue.

I noticed some wood boards on the roof were toed in. (nailed at an angle with the end of the nail sticking through the wood) Is this supposed to be like that? Thing was, it wasn't toed on all the boards.

- They'll toe-in the nails when butting-up against another board, to make sure the joint is tight for spacing. You've stil got asphalt paper and shingles to go on. This will not be an issue as I understand it.

One of the horizontal interor wall pieces is too short and you can see the nail in between.

- Likely a non-issue. How big is the gap?

Master Bedroom Window Sill was compeletely removed and damaged leaving a 2 inch gap in the window. I have no idea why it was removed. It wasn't damaged until they removed it to my knowledge.

- They're going to replace the sill, right?

Nails were offset and missed the stud in the garage. They just went through OSB and didnt hold anything.

- Happens. Again, if you're concerned, drive them back and pull them out of the other side.

They had small pieces of wood nailed to the insulation on the concrete wall to hold the dry wall. Thing was, almost all of these were split from being nailed way too hard.

- With concrete nails? Those things are hard to control, but you can vary the charge to accomodate. How badly split? Can you pull one off withyour bare hands?

What really sucked is that they didnt put any reinforcement on the interior walls at all. No wood going horizontal between the studs. I can bang on the studs and they will shake.

- Blocking is a nice touch for interior walls, but not always necessary. One the drywall is on, you likely won't be ablt to tell the difference. But, if it's in your building code, they should install blocking.

I already talked to the super and he was being a real jerk. Not cooperative at all. Hopefully I can get in touch with the main boss man really soon, but he's hardly in his office.

- Bonne chance (good luck). Those guys are never in their office for a reason.

If I can get pictures posted on my website next week, can anyone in the construction biz can tell me how bad it is?

- I'd be happy to give you advice, but I have no knowledge of the Florida building codes, being from Ontario. Worked in construction and structural design for some time, though, and my dad is a carpenter by trade. If you're really concerned, get a third-party inspector, but do your homework on them too. A lot of them are unqualified.

On the good news, So far, the plumbing, electrical, and A/C duct was all done well. However, I wish I could say the same about the carpenting.

- Housebuilders rarely hire "carpenters". Instead, they hire "framers". Completely different species. I would only trust framers for framing walls - and even then, I'd keep an eye on them. I hate the thought of some of them framing stairs, or worse, roofs. Still, not much fails, so I guess if you stick enough nails in something...

Should I bother contacting the bank and tell them what I saw? I have a construction loan and they are proving the builder with the money.
Anyone else I can contact. I know I can hire a private inspector, but I don't know how much that would cost.

- Neither do I.

What do I do if the President is a jerk even after I show him pictures? Anyone I can contact?

- The building inspector can help, and if the infraction is serious enough, he can issue a "Stop Work Order" (at least they can here). >>



I'll subscribe to this thread, or send a PM anytime.

 

[LostHiWay]

My dad builds houses for a living. Bit of advice...Don't get all anal about the building process. Yes, mistakes will be made, but 99% of the time builders won't let anything go that is serious. If you start bitching they will mess up everything possible without violating a code.

 

[NakaNaka]

Be polite but you should voice your concerns. Lost - if they do this then they are just complete asses.

It's your home, don't feel like you got shortchanged or anything.

 

[bunker]

<< My dad builds houses for a living. Bit of advice...Don't get all anal about the building process. Yes, mistakes will be made, but 99% of the time builders won't let anything go that is serious. If you start bitching they will mess up everything possible without violating a code. >>


Total agreement. I just went through having a house built a year ago. I would come by once a week to check up on it/inspect it. I found a whole bunch of little stuff wrong just like you did.

Do not complain, nothing in your list is serious. My brother is a foreman on a construction crew and he told me unless I saw lumber spilt in half, don't complain. You'll end up with further hassles later on that you didn't see that the builder decided to "add" after you do your complaining.

And don't think, "well, then I'll just go after them as I find these things". Way more hassle than it's worth.

 

[Linflas]

<< My dad builds houses for a living. Bit of advice...Don't get all anal about the building process. Yes, mistakes will be made, but 99% of the time builders won't let anything go that is serious. If you start bitching they will mess up everything possible without violating a code. >>


Sorry it is this attitude that fosters shoddy practices. If I recall one of the things that was found after Hurricane Andrew hit Miami was that houses built by builders that took shortcuts and failed to follow the codes were the ones most likely to have been most heavily damaged. One of the interesting things that came out after that disaster was the several houses that suffered the least amount of damage were ones erected by Habitat for Humanity volunteers due to the fact that they are built strictly to comply with local building codes.

 

[ATLien247]

I had my house built about three years ago. I didn't see quite as many "problems" as you have, but there were a few. I went in with a can of flourescent orange spray paint and marked everything that I wanted fixed. I then told both the foreman and the realtor what I had done, and that I wanted it all fixed. Eventually, it was.

Even if your house passes inspection, and you are still not satisfied with the work, simply don't buy the house.

I was tempted do go to this extreme myself when they "forgot" to put in vaulted ceilings. I told them I would let it slide and that I would still buy the house IF they payed all my closing costs. They agreed. I was happy because I didn't want vaulted ceilings in the first place--my wife did.

 

[LostHiWay]

<<
Sorry it is this attitude that fosters shoddy practices. If I recall one of the things that was found after Hurricane Andrew hit Miami was that houses built by builders that took shortcuts and failed to follow the codes were the ones most likely to have been most heavily damaged. One of the interesting things that came out after that disaster was the several houses that suffered the least amount of damage were ones erected by Habitat for Humanity volunteers due to the fact that they are built strictly to comply with local building codes. >>



I agree about following code, but almost all the problems he listed was within code. If you start making a fuss about small stuff like this your asking for trouble. Mistakes will be made, no house is perfect.

 

[Vicken]

Thanks for the help. I will have pictures up over this weekend. I am also having another problem with the builder. When I first signed the contract I added a window on the front of the side entrance garage costing me $350. I didn't want the garage to have a bare wall. But I wanted the window to look nice as well. The contract says the window is to be a "matching one". Yes, I know the contract is vague. Well, the window is the same style but it doesn't have the arch the other windows have. Its just a plain jane square window. The builder wants $495 to change the window to an arched one. I feel that I shouldn't have to pay $495 because the window doesn't match like in my contract and I already paid $350. Here's a picture of what the front of the house looks like.

Front of the House

The window in question is the far right one. This is where the garage is located.

 

[Red Dawn]

Most of the time they will come through and fix the problems you mention. It's called "Pick Up" Also things like the studs shaking when you hit them is normal. When the drywall is installed it will act like sheer which will reinforce those studs

 

[chansen]

Vicken,

I think you're SOL on the window item. The builder could convincingly argue that the square window "matches" because of the matching trim detail. The $495 would be for the new and mre expensive window, and removal of the old one. Looks like he'll have to sawcut for a window that is slightly larger. I don't think $495 is a gouge.

Edit: I think it looks pretty good. Plus, it's a garage. I'd keep the window and buy a major appliance.

 

[Sluggo]

Compromise is the key word here, the builder doesnt want to rip out the window he put in, so try this. Tell him that an arched window on the garage would lend itself more to the original design of the house. You think that adding another arched window on top (with a space in between) of the new one they put in would complete the look and save them from pulling down the one they put up. Of course the height of the ceiling in the garage may prevent this from being an option.

You really need to hire a qualified home inspector, compared to what you are paying for the house, it is a small price to pay. You have someone on your side, and he can interpret you concerns and explain them to the super in a language he can understand. This is especiallyhelpful on the final walk-through.

Your list might have something like:

1) The ceiling board in the master bedroom is cracked and looks bad.

The home inspectors might word it this way

1) The 3rd ceiling joist from the north in the master bedroom has excessive waning, cracking and splitting to be suitable for this application. The lumber also lacks the proper grade stamp to be deemed suitable.

It helps to have problems explained to the super in a language he is familiar with. It also helps that you arent alone, and that the inspecor should guide you through what are serious issues that need to be addressed, and simple problems that may look bad to you, but pose no serious construction deficiencies.

 

[Vicken]

Will definitely try to sweet talk into giving the arched window for no charge. Thing is, I can't compomise. The builder told me that he can't add another window above the old one, because there's not enough room in the header. Reason, the ceiling in the garage is 8 foot tall where as the majority of the other windows have 10 foot or more. Only way to make it arched is to completely change it. Unfortunately, I didn't know there were going to put in a plain square window like that until I saw it installed, and I remember hearing my sales manager actually SAY that it was going to be a "rounded window". (Too bad I don't have that in writing)

Also, I finally put up pictures of some of the bad work I saw. This is just a sample of what I saw, I didn't have time to go over the entire house and I am sure there's more! Will definitely get a home inspector, but I need one fast. They finished the plumbing and AC as of Friday [and I finished my own house wiring]

Here's the website with pictures! I am referring the site to the builder too. Sorry about the ugly site, it's a quickie job just to get the point across.

http://www.spguild.com/house.html

 

[sitka]

I've done some building, but more to the point and this is just personnal taste. You must change that window.

 

[davesaudio]

...however likely true that the header has to come out and that section of the wall rebuilt

adding an arched unit above sounds like a good compromise

get him to break down the costs into components x hrs to reframe x dollars for additinag glazing unit etc

Dave