network problem with remote building

tomj1

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Jan 18, 2011
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I have a workshop building located 320' ft from my home, home network router located about 460' total from the shop pc. When I ran power to the building I buried two flooded cat5e and 2 coax cables for PC, TV, alarm, telephone and internet. I figured I'd give straight ethernet a shot, even though the distance was too great. Of course it didn't work for ethernet, the tv was fine, and the phone worked for a while...Searching for a better solution, I bought a pair of "ethernet/telephone extender" boxes that have a telephone and ethernet jack on each, and that worked OK for a while, but with very slow connection speed, and sometimes when we had an electrical storm it would kill my ethernet card. I finally resorted to those $5 ebay ethernet to usb adapters and just changed them if they got toasted. About 2 years ago I decided to go wireless, and bought a pair of engenius eoc-2610 units, one configured as an access point, connected to my wndr-3700 router and the other as a client bridge at the remote building. The units are pointed at each other with no obstructions, 320' apart & powered with a power over ethernet injector. Signal strength is about -51dbm, noise -108dbm. I'm still getting 25-50% packet loss when I ping the client bridge from another pc connected to the router, and can barely if ever stream radio on the connection; in fact, the connection recently got so bad that I decided I better try and improve things...
In trying to troubleshoot this setup further, I brought the AP unit inside the house and put a 6' cable from the router to the POE, then another 6' to the AP unit. Even inside the house, I was now able to get perfect pings, even with signal strength in the -71 to -56dbm range, depending on if I had it on a tripod aimed directly or not (still line of sight of the CB, but no, my wife won't let me leave the tripod set up in the living room). Something fishy here, I made up a new cable (about 50') and moved the POE to within a few feet of the AP unit, and put it back up outside. Now I'm STILL losing 25-50% of packets again, WTF.. It almost seems to me that the router is unable to send a strong enough signal down the 50' wire to the AP, or that the AP can't "hear" the signal on that wire very well. Shouldn't the router & AP be able to hear each other over up to the max 328' spec for ethernet ? This equipment should be able to do the job, security is wpa2-psk, transmit power 25dbm (I bumped that up from 20) but it looks to me like the problem is in the wire-what am I doing wrong?
 

kevnich2

Platinum Member
Apr 10, 2004
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Either run a fiber optic cable or use a directional antenna in the shop and aim that towards the AP.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
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You might have luck with a pair of MOCA adapters. However it sounds like the building and lines are not properly grounded and attested which is a building fire waiting to happen. You do have a copper rod buried at the remote building with all the grounds and dataline attesters installed and properly grounded right?
 

tomj1

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Jan 18, 2011
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I don't think the reception is the problem. Fiber would be ideal but I can't dig for another cable run at this point. The building is fed by a 4 wire conductor, single phase power, neutral and ground. Neutral buss bar disconnected from ground buss bar in outbuilding, Neutral in outbuilding wired to house neutral, outbuilding ground buss to house ground, and to grounding rod at outbuilding. I've heard different opinions on if the ground rod should be used on the outbuilding, but its there (the building is all steel, BTW, with a steel frame bolted into the slab and solid metallic conduit for electrical throughout, so I figured that would be pretty similar to the ground rod!) I have heard of earth rise potential but don't know much about it or if it would have any effect on what was happening with the ethernet adapters. In any case the wired ethernet was not sufficient to get the job done; the MOCA sounds promising but a quick look and I didn't see any distance specs. I thought about powerline networking but with 2 breaker panels involved and intermittent welders and motors running I have my doubts that that would work. The wireless AP/CB seems like the ideal solution, it just seems strange that I may get better performance with a short ethernet run to the AP and a longer, more obstructed antenna to antenna distance (ie, AP in the attic, less than 12 feet from my router) than a shorter antenna distance and longer ethernet run (AP 50' from my router, mounted on house exterior)

tom
 

drebo

Diamond Member
Feb 24, 2006
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Definitely sounds like your burried cable isn't burried properly.

I've used these to very good effect to extend ethernet from building to building when I can't rerun cables: http://us.startech.com/product/110VDSLEXT-10-100Mbps-VDSL-Ethernet-LAN-Extender-Kit

I have noticed that "ethernet extenders" come in two kinds: ones that work and ones that don't. The "Enable-IT" brand sold at http://www.ethernetextender.com/ are absolute garbage and break quite often. The Startech ones above are excellent quality, much faster, and I've never had one go bad. You might consider giving them a try.
 

imagoon

Diamond Member
Feb 19, 2003
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I don't think the reception is the problem. Fiber would be ideal but I can't dig for another cable run at this point. The building is fed by a 4 wire conductor, single phase power, neutral and ground. Neutral buss bar disconnected from ground buss bar in outbuilding, Neutral in outbuilding wired to house neutral, outbuilding ground buss to house ground, and to grounding rod at outbuilding. I've heard different opinions on if the ground rod should be used on the outbuilding, but its there (the building is all steel, BTW, with a steel frame bolted into the slab and solid metallic conduit for electrical throughout, so I figured that would be pretty similar to the ground rod!) I have heard of earth rise potential but don't know much about it or if it would have any effect on what was happening with the ethernet adapters. In any case the wired ethernet was not sufficient to get the job done; the MOCA sounds promising but a quick look and I didn't see any distance specs. I thought about powerline networking but with 2 breaker panels involved and intermittent welders and motors running I have my doubts that that would work. The wireless AP/CB seems like the ideal solution, it just seems strange that I may get better performance with a short ethernet run to the AP and a longer, more obstructed antenna to antenna distance (ie, AP in the attic, less than 12 feet from my router) than a shorter antenna distance and longer ethernet run (AP 50' from my router, mounted on house exterior)

tom

With my limited knowledge on this subject: I am pretty sure you need to remote ground at the building. The fact that your frying gear is evidence that it is not wired correctly. I personally would not try and tie the 2 buildings grounds together and leave the ground wire you buried unhooked at the sub panel. You could be inducing current in the ground wire grounding so far away which will make the ground unstable, and if you ground the structure and the main house, you can cause a "ground short" where the ground wire becomes a path for current caused by natural sources and man made electrical.
 
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