Network over the air broadcasting.

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Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I ran across the following on the NYT website, and I find its message perhaps right, but hope fully wrong.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02...s/media/28network.html

I personally would argue it could pave the way for a new rebirth of broadcast television, especially during tough economic times.

Because before the digital television transition, television NETWORKS could offer one and only one piece of programming in a given time slot. And because the advertising driven revenue stream that kept them in business depended on user ratings, it tended
to drive all programming to a lowest lowbrow common denominator. One either had a run away hit, or the network was in second, third, or a lower place that commanded even lower advertising revenues. Occasionally, one might get something, IMHO, descent, a 60 minutes, or a All in the Family, but by in large, one gets mindless drivel,
and fail to cater to the lowbrow tastes of the vast majority of the American people, and that network that dares offer something of quality, and that network is going to be in second, third, or an even lower place in the rating.

But the new joker in the deck is the digital television transition. In my case, I am in a medium sized market, and in analog over the air mode, I could get a fairly clear CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, Fox, and a few other networks in lesser quality. Were I in a major market, I would just have more overlap, and would have the choice of watching the exactly same Network drivel, on two, three, or more given stations.

But now that we soon have a total digital television, every television station can now opt to offer the same network fare in super high definition, plus offer up to five other totally different multicast programs on its sidebands. All of which, can generate additional advertising revenue. And suddenly, over the air programming, which is free, directly competes with satellite, cable, and other forms of paid broadcasting. Of course the downside risk is always 500 channels and nothing on,
but it also offers the networks a chance to cater to all tastes. And Tivo, VCR's, and blueray recording not withstanding, by in large, the TV listener can watch one and only one program at a given time. In my case, thus far, I get a pile of additional religious based programming, quite a few 24/7 weather radars, and news more customized to only local content, but only one extra PBS option. And as time goes on, I expect there will be more informercials aired. Hopefully the FCC will limit to one or two, the number of informercials any one station can offer at a time.

In my case, I used to have the DISH Satellite TV, but dropped it when the price kept going up, and the quality stayed the same or went down. The only thing I miss are CNN, the science channel, and the history channel, and not the other 57 channels of mindless drivel I was forced to buy in a package. And since Dish does not offer any custom choices, I just flat out refuse to pay their prices. And since the internet competes for my free time hours, I am less dependent on television.

IMHO, the quality future of over the air broadcasts can be greatly influenced by an FCC that demands that networks act in the public interests. And start offering those other choices that keep everyone happier. And since even drivel can cost 3 million an hour to produce, surely broadcast television can offer 1-2 million per hour to air something like the science channel, the history channel, and CNN to the masses for free, while they reap that advertising benefits to pay for it. And at the same time, reap the low brow advertising bucks on other sidebands.

With the right FCC and major network decisions, it could be the cable and satellite TV industry that has the unsustainable model.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
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IT is a shame that the digital transition did not plan for mpeg4 compression. There would even more room for subchannels.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Who knows, but i have to say that with HULU offering such good content, if they hook it into the xbox in the same way netflix has, or there becomes another way to watch it on my TV (without dragging my laptop around), I'm going to think long and hard about what I'm actually getting for that $50+/month I pay now. I guess the quality is still lower at least with hulu, but I have not watched an over-air HD signal to know how they are.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Who knows, but i have to say that with HULU offering such good content, if they hook it into the xbox in the same way netflix has, or there becomes another way to watch it on my TV (without dragging my laptop around), I'm going to think long and hard about what I'm actually getting for that $50+/month I pay now. I guess the quality is still lower at least with hulu, but I have not watched an over-air HD signal to know how they are.

OTA HD is supposed to be the best as there is plenty of room for an mpeg2 video. However as more stations start doing subchannels, quality is going to suffer.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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Its all well and fine for Skoorb to mention HULU, the problem in it requires a 2.5 megabit per second or better internet connection. Bandwidth many in the USA do not have and will not have for the foreseeable future.
Me included.

But it does show, that the same HULU business model could be adapted to over the air broadcast TV also.

As for the charrison comment, in theory, I would think inexpensive add in devices could correct the MPeg4 defect. But charrison could also be wrong, the limit may not be compression related, it may be how many discrete sideband channels can one add into a narrow slice of the electromagnetic spectrum? It may be six now, how could extra compression add more?
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Its all well and fine for Skoorb to mention HULU, the problem in it requires a 2.5 megabit per second or better internet connection. Bandwidth many in the USA do not have and will not have for the foreseeable future.
Me included.

Most people have this speed available. It is mostly rural areas that lack this speed.

As for the charrison comment, in theory, I would think inexpensive add in devices could correct the MPeg4 defect. But charrison could also be wrong, the limit may not be compression related, it may be how many discrete sideband channels can one add into a narrow slice of the electromagnetic spectrum? It may be six now, how could extra compression add more?
[/quote]

The problem is that the boxes going our are not even mpeg4 capable( I could be wrong here). So to move mpeg4 it would require another round of replacing every single receiver out there.
mpeg4 can produce the same quality at 1/2 the bitrate of mpeg2. SO if they could 6 subchannels now, they could do 12 with mpeg4.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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With all due respects to the charrison contention of " The problem is that the boxes going our are not even mpeg4 capable( I could be wrong here). So to move mpeg4 it would require another round of replacing every single receiver out there. mpeg4 can produce the same quality at 1/2 the bitrate of mpeg2. SO if they could 6 subchannels now, they could do 12 with mpeg4.", I still respectfully disagree. Mpeg4 will likely still result in the same six sidebands at maybe twice the quality. But when I am listening to a basket ball game, or for that matter Bach on PBS, once a certain quality level is reached, more quality is not better in terms of delivering content. In terms of a basket ball game, lots of snow sucks, but if I can see a fairly clear picture, being better able to resolve player drops of sweat in a better picture adds nothing. In terms of listening to Bach on PBS, the limitation is the tinny speakers on my TV set, the inputs may be perfect, but unless I want to invest a bundle on a super expensive home entertainment center, the output will still suck. And if Bach was what tripped my trigger, I would be better off playing it on my stereo system. So why waste that TV band width?

But these side issue debates also disturb me as thread OP , because it distracts from the larger possible new economic business models for what over the air TV could become?

Of course there is that * asterisk with wise leadership. Which typically seems missing in action.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
With all due respects to the charrison contention of " The problem is that the boxes going our are not even mpeg4 capable( I could be wrong here). So to move mpeg4 it would require another round of replacing every single receiver out there. mpeg4 can produce the same quality at 1/2 the bitrate of mpeg2. SO if they could 6 subchannels now, they could do 12 with mpeg4.", I still respectfully disagree. Mpeg4 will likely still result in the same six sidebands at maybe twice the quality. But when I am listening to a basket ball game, or for that matter Bach on PBS, once a certain quality level is reached, more quality is not better in terms of delivering content. In terms of a basket ball game, lots of snow sucks, but if I can see a fairly clear picture, being better able to resolve player drops of sweat in a better picture adds nothing. In terms of listening to Bach on PBS, the limitation is the tinny speakers on my TV set, the inputs may be perfect, but unless I want to invest a bundle on a super expensive home entertainment center, the output will still suck. And if Bach was what tripped my trigger, I would be better off playing it on my stereo system. So why waste that TV band width?

In the space of single SD analog tv channel, you can fit 2HD or 10SD mpeg 2 channels, without significant quality loss(according to the cable companies). Mpeg4 is twice as bandwidth efficient as mpeg2. ATT is using mpeg4 for its uverse product and a SD stream is about 2meg/sec and HD is about 6meg/sec. Mpeg4 would have allowed for far more subchannels without significant quality loss.

But these side issue debates also disturb me as thread OP , because it distracts from the larger possible new economic business models for what over the air TV could become?

Of course there is that * asterisk with wise leadership. Which typically seems missing in action.


It could become alot of things. There was an attempt a few years back to do cable tv OTA via digital transmission on empty channels. It got deployed in several markets before they declared bankruptcy. Efficient us of the spectrum could allow another opening for cable competition, which is why I am disappointed mpeg4 was not used.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
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I see I am still engaged in a meaningless debate over mpeg4 vs, mpeg2. Face the facts, over the air technologies are not comparable to cable technologies, and for a significant minority of Americans who can't benefit from cable because its uneconomical to deploy in lower populations densities, its a totally irrelevant argument for us.

But for many, who can perhaps only receive 2 over the air networks, going from two choices to 12, is huge. If and only if the other 11 choices do not pander to to the same lowest common denominator consensus choice which has historically been crapola.

Its still boils down to quality of programming, 500 channels and nothing worthwhile is no better than one channel and nothing on that we have now.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
I see I am still engaged in a meaningless debate over mpeg4 vs, mpeg2. Face the facts, over the air technologies are not comparable to cable technologies, and for a significant minority of Americans who can't benefit from cable because its uneconomical to deploy in lower populations densities, its a totally irrelevant argument for us.
Not meaningless. More channels, more choices.

But for many, who can perhaps only receive 2 over the air networks, going from two choices to 12, is huge. If and only if the other 11 choices do not pander to to the same lowest common denominator consensus choice which has historically been crapola.

Its still boils down to quality of programming, 500 channels and nothing worthwhile is no better than one channel and nothing on that we have now.


This is going to be a problem, no matter the number of channels. Maybe you should the FCC produce all the content and that would solve the problem....
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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Charrinton at last hits the nail on the head, you are damn tooting right, the FCC should really dopeslap sanction any over the air broadcast networks that gives only the choice between between NCIS Maimi. NCIS Las Vegas, and Judge Judy in any given time slot. Offering 100% drivel no longer will get it.

A paid media may be FCC immune, but a public airwave is supposed to serve the public interests, having only one choice may serve the argument of common drivel, but with six choices, the total drivel argument vanishes.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Charrinton at last hits the nail on the head, you are damn tooting right, the FCC should really dopeslap sanction any over the air broadcast networks that gives only the choice between between NCIS Maimi. NCIS Las Vegas, and Judge Judy in any given time slot. Offering 100% drivel no longer will get it.

A paid media may be FCC immune, but a public airwave is supposed to serve the public interests, having only one choice may serve the argument of common drivel, but with six choices, the total drivel argument vanishes.

I will pass on having OTA programming completely controlled by the FCC.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Charrinton still ducks the argument by asserting, " I will pass on having OTA programming completely controlled by the FCC."

The point being, that when a major network had one and only one choice to offer in any given timeslot, the rational choice was sadly the great lowbrow mean that could potentially attract the greatest audience slice. But now when the choices greatly expand some six X, only one of those choices may be the great lowbrow mean, and the other five can be used to add some diversity. And if I happen to like some of those other choices, I win even if the FCC mandates it or not. I freely concede that I may not like some of those other choices networks make, but it really beats what we had.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: Lemon law
Charrinton still ducks the argument by asserting, " I will pass on having OTA programming completely controlled by the FCC."

The point being, that when a major network had one and only one choice to offer in any given timeslot, the rational choice was sadly the great lowbrow mean that could potentially attract the greatest audience slice. But now when the choices greatly expand some six X, only one of those choices may be the great lowbrow mean, and the other five can be used to add some diversity. And if I happen to like some of those other choices, I win even if the FCC mandates it or not. I freely concede that I may not like some of those other choices networks make, but it really beats what we had.

The problem is how do you go about defining what is drivel. What I consider drivel may or may not be what you consider drivel. It all boils down to more channels more choices. I will pass on FCC control of content for a variety of reasons.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
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Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Charrinton still ducks the argument by asserting, " I will pass on having OTA programming completely controlled by the FCC."

The point being, that when a major network had one and only one choice to offer in any given timeslot, the rational choice was sadly the great lowbrow mean that could potentially attract the greatest audience slice. But now when the choices greatly expand some six X, only one of those choices may be the great lowbrow mean, and the other five can be used to add some diversity. And if I happen to like some of those other choices, I win even if the FCC mandates it or not. I freely concede that I may not like some of those other choices networks make, but it really beats what we had.

The problem is how do you go about defining what is drivel. What I consider drivel may or may not be what you consider drivel. It all boils down to more channels more choices. I will pass on FCC control of content for a variety of reasons.
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Arrrrgggggggggg, why is this thread degenerating over side issues?

The charrison fear of fcc regulation duly noted, it still does not change what could be a new over the air broadcast economic model.

I could argue that CBS might offer NCIS something as its main flagship in the 8pm time slot, and then also offer a golf program, the Pat Robertson hour, and some Bach contralto, it would not benefit me, but at least some more people would have something they are happier with.

And maybe, on some other network or time slot, I might actually accidentally get something I am happier with.

Regardless if the changes are driven by FCC policies or pure rational free market choices, it changes the network business economic models and will expand my choices.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Charrinton still ducks the argument by asserting, " I will pass on having OTA programming completely controlled by the FCC."

The point being, that when a major network had one and only one choice to offer in any given timeslot, the rational choice was sadly the great lowbrow mean that could potentially attract the greatest audience slice. But now when the choices greatly expand some six X, only one of those choices may be the great lowbrow mean, and the other five can be used to add some diversity. And if I happen to like some of those other choices, I win even if the FCC mandates it or not. I freely concede that I may not like some of those other choices networks make, but it really beats what we had.

The problem is how do you go about defining what is drivel. What I consider drivel may or may not be what you consider drivel. It all boils down to more channels more choices. I will pass on FCC control of content for a variety of reasons.
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Arrrrgggggggggg, why is this thread degenerating over side issues?

The charrison fear of fcc regulation duly noted, it still does not change what could be a new over the air broadcast economic model.

I could argue that CBS might offer NCIS something as its main flagship in the 8pm time slot, and then also offer a golf program, the Pat Robertson hour, and some Bach contralto, it would not benefit me, but at least some more people would have something they are happier with.

And maybe, on some other network or time slot, I might actually accidentally get something I am happier with.

Regardless if the changes are driven by FCC policies or pure rational free market choices, it changes the network business economic models and will expand my choices.

At this point, I dont even know what you are trying to argue. The digital transition is a very good thing as it will offer more choices to people. This is very good for the industry, same for HD radio. My only complaint is the the lack of mpeg4 support, which would offer even more choices to more people.
 
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