Network Design Questions

[Gillbot]

Ok, here in our local office we currently use a broadband connection with a LAN network routed through a VPN box to our home office's LAN. On our local LAN, we have a server for file storage which can be accessed via our local LAN or via WAN/VPN through the corporate network when we are off site.

We are being migrated to Air Cards which will attach us permanently to the corporate network and our broadband connection + VPN box is being removed. I don't really care about us accessing the server from outside the office as we rarely need to and anything we would need to access we can put out on the corporate network. My concern is a place for us to store our large database files which would allow us to easily access them in the office. (+500MB each)

Keep in mind, I'm semi-tasked with creating a solution for our office users (only ~6 users) to access these database files. My concern is, with many of these users being VERY computer illiterate, I would prefer to eliminate the wired network all together and just use a USB disk with a local machine to back it up onto manually.

My main fear is that the computer would cause more grief trying to access the network via LAN as opposed to the Air Card, once we switch over and the users would not know how to handle this as they are used to "firing up the PC and working". I can still manage this if I configure their machine to ONLY use the air card, but once you toss in the wired connection I fear it will create havok. We already have enough issues with wireless connections in the area and the machines constant battle trying to choose between wireless and wired, I don't want to add the air card to this also.

Thoughts/Suggestions?
Should I keep the LAN setup with our server running locally only?
Go to USB disk and dump the wired LAN altogether?

Either will cause potential issues with backup. As of right now, our server backs itself up via VPN to the corp network but we'll lose this feature as soon as they pull the VPN/Broadband anyway. I believe the server will stay here but either way, I can get a cheap PC to use if need be.

 

[imagoon]

When you say "database files" do you mean MS Access? If so good luck.... VPN + MS ACCESS = disaster in the making. Even point to points can wreck havoc on those if they are designed poorly.

Eliminating the wired network sounds like a step backwards also. Set up a simple batch file that the user can double click when in the office and send the files to a server. 500+MB on an aircard will take forever to push because the upload channel is very small. Walking around with a USB HDD is also a disaster in the making because all it takes is it being dropped once and the drive typically will be toast.

My main fear is that the computer would cause more grief trying to access the network via LAN as opposed to the Air Card, once we switch over and the users would not know how to handle this as they are used to "firing up the PC and working". I can still manage this if I configure their machine to ONLY use the air card, but once you toss in the wired connection I fear it will create havok. We already have enough issues with wireless connections in the area and the machines constant battle trying to choose between wireless and wired, I don't want to add the air card to this also.

Training does wonders for this.

 

[Gillbot]

No, they are not access files, they are for a proprietary program.

We will not try to push the files over the air card, that would be too painful. Our only options are a "homeade" or store bought NAS and the LAN or a USB disk. Personally I'm leaning towards the USB disk because it would be MUCH easier than dealing with multiple 60+ year olds and Lan/Batch files. They can copy and paste the files from a USB disk. I doubt they can handle hooking up to a LAN, browsing to a shared folder, copying the files, disconnecting then reactivating the air card. It would be entirely too complex.

 

[kevnich2]

I would highly recommend AGAINST removing the broadband connectio + VPN. If your in a stationary office, the price for a broadband connection is ~$200month. Aircards are good when they're used appropriately - for workers in the field who are constantly moving. If you have a remote office where several people are at, using aircards for doing some of the items your referring to (Central file server for large database files), is literally a disaster in the making. Not to mention aircards now have cap limits on them which you'll definitely hit if your planning on using it like that. As far as your server and backing up over the VPN, you really don't realize how long it would take to do that over an EVDO connection (the fastest aircard there is under the best conditions). Honestly, whoever had the idea of switching to mobile broadband cards and eliminating the stationary broadband at your office really might need to re-think their job, that's a very bad idea just to save a couple hundred bucks a month.

*Also, you can configure the aircard software to use just the wired LAN when it's available and when it's no longer available, it'll switch back to being available*

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: kevnich2
I would highly recommend AGAINST removing the broadband connectio + VPN.

<snip>

*Also, you can configure the aircard software to use just the wired LAN when it's available and when it's no longer available, it'll switch back to being available*

Not an option, it's 100% GONE. Everyone needs to step back and realize that I am looking for options, not a lecture about what you think should be done with out broadband connection/VPN.

Our air cards will NOT be used to transfer the databases or BACKUP the server. This all needs to be handled locally. I keep stressing this and everyone overlooks that point.

Our air cards are corporate provided and have unlimited access. Everyone in our office is constantly moving so the air cards are a needed, the locan LAN with broadband is not. Corporate will not allow an auto configure of the aircard software.

I have limited avenues hence my need to find a solution that can fit within the limitations posted in the OP.

 

[kevnich2]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: kevnich2
I would highly recommend AGAINST removing the broadband connectio + VPN.

<snip>

*Also, you can configure the aircard software to use just the wired LAN when it's available and when it's no longer available, it'll switch back to being available*

Not an option, it's 100% GONE. Everyone needs to step back and realize that I am looking for options, not a lecture about what you think should be done with out broadband connection/VPN.

Our air cards will NOT be used to transfer the databases or BACKUP the server. This all needs to be handled locally. I keep stressing this and everyone overlooks that point.

Our air cards are corporate provided and have unlimited access. Everyone in our office is constantly moving so the air cards are a needed, the locan LAN with broadband is not. Corporate will not allow an auto configure of the aircard software.

I have limited avenues hence my need to find a solution that can fit within the limitations posted in the OP.

All I will say is that I wish you luck then

 

[rasczak]

could you setup a hardware profile for in office use where the machine is connected to the LAN via your builtin ehternet port, and once removed from the (assumption) docking station, after restart goes to the default hardware profile using the air card?

 

[Gillbot]

Sadly, all our machines (except for the server) are laptops which are corporate configured and this cannot be altered.

I'm really just trying to make the best out of a rather difficult situation and the outlook is not good thus far.

 

[rasczak]

wow, corp is really tearing you a new one on this. sorry to hear. good luck.

 

[mxnerd]

There is absolutely no reason to share a 500MB file through any wireless solution. The file is bound to be corrupted anytime.

maybe you should look at the NIC interface metrics and set the priorities, so that wired LAN > wireless LAN > AIR Card

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/299540

But since you said the laptops are corporate configured, I don't know if you can change that.

 

[kevnich2]

I'd still like to know who came up with this idea? Using a mobile broadband aircard to access 500mb files? Sorry but that's not a proper way to handle any business data. The connection needs to be constant and reliable, which sorry mobile broadband isn't constant and is nowhere near always reliable. Maybe you'll just have to show that this new way isn't going to work and they'll just have to bring back your old broadband because with all that you've said, I don't think there is a real "solution" here that's going to work with the internet solution that you have along with what your business requirements are and not corrupt your data along the process.

 

[skyking]

How about manually configuring the LAN connection on each laptop without a gateway, so the users can "just plug in" and get to work? Will they let you have that much access to the configuration? Mapping the network drive and no gateway should take care of ambiguity about internet connections, etc. Good luck!

 

[mxnerd]

Originally posted by: skyking
How about manually configuring the LAN connection on each laptop without a gateway, so the users can "just plug in" and get to work? Will they let you have that much access to the configuration? Mapping the network drive and no gateway should take care of ambiguity about internet connections, etc. Good luck!

:thumbsup:

 

[kevnich2]

Originally posted by: mxnerd

Originally posted by: skyking
How about manually configuring the LAN connection on each laptop without a gateway, so the users can "just plug in" and get to work? Will they let you have that much access to the configuration? Mapping the network drive and no gateway should take care of ambiguity about internet connections, etc. Good luck!

:thumbsup:

Yeah, that might just work. Network access through that for local things and everything else would go through the aircard.

 

[Crusty]

Originally posted by: kevnich2

Originally posted by: mxnerd

Originally posted by: skyking
How about manually configuring the LAN connection on each laptop without a gateway, so the users can "just plug in" and get to work? Will they let you have that much access to the configuration? Mapping the network drive and no gateway should take care of ambiguity about internet connections, etc. Good luck!

:thumbsup:

Yeah, that might just work. Network access through that for local things and everything else would go through the aircard.

Sounds like that might make the best out of a shitty situation. :thumbsup:

 

[Gillbot]

I'd like to know why everyone keeps harping on the fact that there are 500MB fies. I have already stated REPEATEDLY that we will NOT be using the air cards to move the 500mb databases. I know this is impractical and will NOT be the case.

This leaves me with two options as I see it, unless someone here actually cares to read what i'm trying to do and offers a better solution. We will be using a USB disk for backup of the databases and removing the local LAN, or if I can create a useable solution (meaning easy and hassle PROOF for the n00b user) we will keep the wired lan with a NAS device (or similar) and use the air cards for all other access.

As I stated in the OP:

My main fear is that the computer would cause more grief trying to access the network via LAN as opposed to the Air Card, once we switch over and the users would not know how to handle this as they are used to "firing up the PC and working". I can still manage this if I configure their machine to ONLY use the air card, but once you toss in the wired connection I fear it will create havok. We already have enough issues with wireless connections in the area and the machines constant battle trying to choose between wireless and wired, I don't want to add the air card to this also.

Most of the users in the office are 60+ and are just one step above computer illiterate. I am trying to make the best of a corporate decision so the broadband/VPN is gone and air cards are ordered no matter what we want. I just need a solution to keep access to the databases without causing myself "support" grief using the LAN. This is why I'm leaning towards removing the LAN and using the USB disk. Backing up the USB disk will be a hassle but IMHO, that will be less grief than dealing with all the users trying to access "network shares" via a disconnected local LAN and/or air card.

Originally posted by: skyking
How about manually configuring the LAN connection on each laptop without a gateway, so the users can "just plug in" and get to work? Will they let you have that much access to the configuration? Mapping the network drive and no gateway should take care of ambiguity about internet connections, etc. Good luck!

I may have to try this! My boss already has his air card. Is there a way I can monitor the traffic to ensure his file transfers are remaining local vs. the air card? (I am a shadetree "IT" guy at best)

This will be tough though as the broadband is still active until the rest of our air cards arrive.

 

[mxnerd]

All I can say it's a very bad decision to remove VPN and broadband and use AIR Card for everything except those 500MB files.

And why would it be easier to keep plug in and romve a USB drive than a shortcut on the desktop to a shared folder holding those 500M files? USB drive iteself can be damaged anytime either with static or malfunctioned USB port. I would call it Unreliable Storage at Best.

If you follow skyking's instruction, you don't have to monitor the traffic, the 500MB file will flow on the LAN wire.

 

[skyking]

Gillbot, all you have to do is set up the network adapters on the laptops with the static IP addresses and be sure to specify no gateway, and close. Then map a network drive in my computer to the folder with the database files. DO not select the checkbox, "automatically log in to my network drive at startup"!
The reason you don't want that is those users who are clueless. You want them to go into my computer when they get it plugged in and click that folder. That way they will not get the error message in the systray "could not connect to all network drives" whenever they are out away from the office. That would bug the hell out of them, and they would bug the hell out of you!
You go around and do that on each laptop and make sure that you set up and USE that path before you walk away.
This will be as easy on you and them as you can make it.
I took the time to re-read your post. I have a huge concern about backups.
Corporate will be disconnected from your fileserver, forever. You are on your own, and what have you got in place? With no network connection, all you can do is use a USB drive, DVDs or tapes to perform an offsite backup. I strongly suggest you take the time right now to create a viable backup solution and put in place. Just take a moment and imagine the consequences if you lost those database files Monday morning.

 

[kevnich2]

Originally posted by: skyking
Gillbot, all you have to do is set up the network adapters on the laptops with the static IP addresses and be sure to specify no gateway, and close. Then map a network drive in my computer to the folder with the database files. DO not select the checkbox, "automatically log in to my network drive at startup"!
The reason you don't want that is those users who are clueless. You want them to go into my computer when they get it plugged in and click that folder. That way they will not get the error message in the systray "could not connect to all network drives" whenever they are out away from the office. That would bug the hell out of them, and they would bug the hell out of you!
You go around and do that on each laptop and make sure that you set up and USE that path before you walk away.
This will be as easy on you and them as you can make it.
I took the time to re-read your post. I have a huge concern about backups.
Corporate will be disconnected from your fileserver, forever. You are on your own, and what have you got in place? With no network connection, all you can do is use a USB drive, DVDs or tapes to perform an offsite backup. I strongly suggest you take the time right now to create a viable backup solution and put in place. Just take a moment and imagine the consequences if you lost those database files Monday morning.

Honestly I have the exact same concerns as skyking with regards to the server backups and his recommendation about the network drive would work the best given your situation for your database files. USB transfer for that is a very bad idea and is taking a major step backward in a lot of different ways (time consumed doing the transfers to all the laptops, data corruption, etc, etc) I think as time goes by, your corporate office will realize how bad of a decision it was to disconnect the broadband. The benefits of having it for server backups, faster speed when your at the remote office, etc will vastly outweigh the "savings" your company has by not having it but only time will tell.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: skyking
Gillbot, all you have to do is set up the network adapters on the laptops with the static IP addresses and be sure to specify no gateway, and close. Then map a network drive in my computer to the folder with the database files. DO not select the checkbox, "automatically log in to my network drive at startup"!
The reason you don't want that is those users who are clueless. You want them to go into my computer when they get it plugged in and click that folder. That way they will not get the error message in the systray "could not connect to all network drives" whenever they are out away from the office. That would bug the hell out of them, and they would bug the hell out of you!
You go around and do that on each laptop and make sure that you set up and USE that path before you walk away.
This will be as easy on you and them as you can make it.
I took the time to re-read your post. I have a huge concern about backups.
Corporate will be disconnected from your fileserver, forever. You are on your own, and what have you got in place? With no network connection, all you can do is use a USB drive, DVDs or tapes to perform an offsite backup. I strongly suggest you take the time right now to create a viable backup solution and put in place. Just take a moment and imagine the consequences if you lost those database files Monday morning.

My plan for the USB disk without the LAN is to get another PC (or use our server if IT leaves it here) and have the USB disk back up there every week. The boss will most likely take the USB disk home with him daily so there will be an "offsite" backup along with the 2nd PC or server, whichever we have available.

If we keep the server or use a 2nd machine and keep the local LAN active, I can have a NAS/USB disk on it for backups daily and someone can take it home with them for an offsite solution.

Trust me, i'm trying to get them to keep any broadband solution but it looks as though the decision is being pushed from above without any consideration for our actual needs. I've done all the pleading and explaining I can do and the answer has still been no boradband/VPN and we are getting air cards.

Honestly, I'm less concerned with a backup solution than I am with the hassles of the users and the network. The way corporate has them configured is a giant pain. I'm hoping that corporate will allow me (or let me advise them) so I can either get the configuration changed or at least a "profile" added to ease the confusion and hassles.

 

[kevnich2]

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Originally posted by: skyking
Gillbot, all you have to do is set up the network adapters on the laptops with the static IP addresses and be sure to specify no gateway, and close. Then map a network drive in my computer to the folder with the database files. DO not select the checkbox, "automatically log in to my network drive at startup"!
The reason you don't want that is those users who are clueless. You want them to go into my computer when they get it plugged in and click that folder. That way they will not get the error message in the systray "could not connect to all network drives" whenever they are out away from the office. That would bug the hell out of them, and they would bug the hell out of you!
You go around and do that on each laptop and make sure that you set up and USE that path before you walk away.
This will be as easy on you and them as you can make it.
I took the time to re-read your post. I have a huge concern about backups.
Corporate will be disconnected from your fileserver, forever. You are on your own, and what have you got in place? With no network connection, all you can do is use a USB drive, DVDs or tapes to perform an offsite backup. I strongly suggest you take the time right now to create a viable backup solution and put in place. Just take a moment and imagine the consequences if you lost those database files Monday morning.

My plan for the USB disk without the LAN is to get another PC (or use our server if IT leaves it here) and have the USB disk back up there every week. The boss will most likely take the USB disk home with him daily so there will be an "offsite" backup along with the 2nd PC or server, whichever we have available.

If we keep the server or use a 2nd machine and keep the local LAN active, I can have a NAS/USB disk on it for backups daily and someone can take it home with them for an offsite solution.

Trust me, i'm trying to get them to keep any broadband solution but it looks as though the decision is being pushed from above without any consideration for our actual needs. I've done all the pleading and explaining I can do and the answer has still been no boradband/VPN and we are getting air cards.

Honestly, I'm less concerned with a backup solution than I am with the hassles of the users and the network. The way corporate has them configured is a giant pain. I'm hoping that corporate will allow me (or let me advise them) so I can either get the configuration changed or at least a "profile" added to ease the confusion and hassles.

Just out of curiosity, did corporate happen to explain to you or tell you anything as to their reasoning for doing this? This just seems like a giant step backward as far as trying to streamline things or make things easier and keep the data intact and protected? Just wondering what they're reasoning is? It sounds more like a management type thing making this decision without having any IT in the discussions to let them know just how bad of a situation they're making this for you without really knowing it.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: kevnich2
Just out of curiosity, did corporate happen to explain to you or tell you anything as to their reasoning for doing this? This just seems like a giant step backward as far as trying to streamline things or make things easier and keep the data intact and protected? Just wondering what they're reasoning is? It sounds more like a management type thing making this decision without having any IT in the discussions to let them know just how bad of a situation they're making this for you without really knowing it.

Yes, and I have to agree with their decision based on the info I was given. I really can't say much more without getting myself into trouble BUT I do believe there is a better solution for us. I believe this is the way my manager has decided it has to happen in order for us to facilitate a better option later on.

(Maybe they want the data to get corrupted to reinforce the fact we need this line?)