netowrk related storage backup questions

[OuiKikUrAzz]

i am interning for a company right now and am in need of a solution, hopefully you guys can help me out...right now i am in charge of setting up a new file/dhcp/vpn server (a all-in-1 solution) in any case, windows 2003 will be the software of choice since no one is linux savvy. I'm looking at a backup solution where all the files/dhcp/vpn files and settings are backed up nightly and then here's the kicker, transferred to a remote location, so that can be like 20-30gb if info a night. That is a lot i know but it is a necessity. We are looking for a 2-3 tier backup solution. I am thinking, a RAID 1 array, followed by a nightly backup with Symantec Backup Exec (or something similar) then uploading that backup of Symantec Backup Exec onto a remote location. Right now im looking for a cost effective solution in terms of the Backup Software and some sort of way to upload all that information in a relatively short time. The backup software runs $950+ and i really don't need all the features, a simple full disk backup where if the computer fails that we can restore an image onto ANY new server (remember windows for some reason needs to reconfigure itself when a motherboard is changed cause it has happened before where the computer caught fire and the motherboard was replaced and settings had to be replaced etc etc) Also the necessity of some sort of backup solution where it wont take 24 hours just to upload say 20-30gb of info. OK so any help in any area would be appreciated dearly.

 

[jlazzaro]

while this isnt in anyway helpful to your situation, having an intern design and implement a companies backup solution = very bad. more so when you're dealing with files critical to the operation and success of the business.

ill edit with a more constructive post later...

 

[yinan]

Ok the first thing I would to to allow for easy recovery on ANY hardware platform is to virtual the server. Secondly, I would invest in backup exec with any appropriate agents. For the backup media I would have this server back up to disk.

To send the backups offsite I believe you can tell BackupExec to run other commands once the job is complete. I would have backup exec copy the backup files to a remote network drive once the job is complete.

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

Originally posted by: jlazzaro
while this isnt in anyway helpful to your situation, having an intern design and implement a companies backup solution = very bad. more so when you're dealing with files critical to the operation and success of the business.

ill edit with a more constructive post later...

haha let me rephrase what i posted, i am interning for my UNCLE'S company, which i basically help launch a few years ago, yea my position is intern (as is the pay) but i'm pretty much stuck here (not physically) for my life lol

 

[kevnich2]

When you backup offsite, what type of network connection are you going to have to backup offsite. 20-30gb across a WAN is NOT going to work. If you have another building or something on your network, then you can easily transfer 20-30gb of data across a LAN unless your a data center and have a nice WAN circuit. How many employees and how many computers are on the network? If fewer than 75, I'd look at Windows SBS 2003. This is an all in one server solution for small businesses. Add in Backup Exec to this and you can easily do what you want. As I stated before, if you have another building that is connected to your network, you can use that to backup the data away from the server itself in addition to doing weekly tape backups. A nice backup is a weekly tape backup, a weekly full disk based backup to another hard drive that's offsite (say to a share on a PC in another building) and nightly differential backups. If you want full disaster recovery in case of server crash that includes restoration on different hardware, look into virtualization, it works VERY well and vmware server is free.

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

yes there are two offices in this company, one is in NYC and one is in Maryland, so it is NOT on a LAN, so it would be a WAN setup.

Im kind of new to virtualization so can someone explain more as to how it'd work, a quick wikipedia and browse through vmware's site is not elaborate enough. Like where would the physical server sit etc, are machines running off the virtual server or something? Kind of new to the virtualization thing. What about the DHCP and VPN server config.

 

[spidey07]

Doing it right is going to cost you hundreds of thousands of dollars or more because of your requirement to electronically transfer it so you need to drop that requirement right there.

Just get a backup program, backup to tape and have somebody pick up the tapes.

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

right now my limitations are a WAN connection at the main office (NYC) which is 1.5down/768up so kind blah in terms of upload, i'm waiting for FIOS to be available for a 15down/2up connection which is faster but i don't think it'll be fast enough really but whatever...

so what i'm aiming for is 3 lines of defense backup:

1 -RAID 1
2 - Off site differential backup to another computer (w/Symantec Backup Exec) (daily differential and bi weekly/monthly backup)
3 - Synching the two servers from Maryland and NYC together so both server would be identical and if one goes down the other will be ready to reanimate the other

i read over a dozen sites of virtualization and it doesn't seem like it'll be cost effective for the company today, its still a small company of 10-15 client workstation and 1 server is doing the task of DHCP/VPN/File Storage and hasn't really been pushed to the limits except when the client load is full. It has room to survive...but like i said they have experienced one fire on the server already (the issue was the cooling fan uh caught fire in the rack HAH!) and yea the file backups were saved but all the workstations needed to be reconfigured and the server too because of the settings not porting over to the new motherboard with windows requiring a new install and such. I still don't fully understand virtualization so if it is my solution please could someone explain how that can help me with off-site backups? The company is growing, and will be moving in 6 months to a bigger location (new office) so any solution needs to be easily trasnferred to a new site as well.

 

[spidey07]

So essentially you are not listening and are going to do it the way you want no matter how arse backwards it is?

Tape it with off-site storage or invest in the gear and communications you need to meet your request. I'd be more than happy to sell you a hot-site solution.

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

Originally posted by: spidey07
So essentially you are not listening and are going to do it the way you want no matter how arse backwards it is?

Tape it with off-site storage or invest in the gear and communications you need to meet your request. I'd be more than happy to sell you a hot-site solution.

its not that i am not listening, this company has NO system admin to do a manual tape backup daily/weekly etc. it is way too busy for the owner or senior members that are there till 8pm at night to do the backup either...so i guess i forgot to mention it needs to be a somewhat automated process as well.

 

[kevnich2]

Whether or not the other office has a system admin is irrelevant. As spidey said, it's more of a bandwidth issue. There is NO WAY you can transfer 30gByte nightly on what you have. To transfer 30gB in an 8 hour time frame, your looking at a minimum of 11mbit/sec upload. Your way past your measly 2mb FIOS. As spidey again said, cut that requirement completely because it is IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[spidey07]

It is automated. All they have to do is put the tapes in a box and somebody comes and gets them.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

RAID1 is fault tolerance, not a backup. RAID1 won't help you with "Oh S$@!, I just deleted the Johnson file!" Have at least "this week's data" duped onsite.

- M4H

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

so say i get the symantec backup exec, configure it to backup the whole OS and such...i can get it to automatically dump onto a tape drive? so all it requires everyday is to swap the tape out every morning and somebody will come and pick it up ?

 

[spidey07]

yep. It's how 99% of small business do backups.

Or if you want, backup and swap tapes daily then have somebody pick them up on Monday once a week.

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

also for off-site backups, how would the rotations work, do i get a tape when they pickup a tape for my daily backups, say i use 12 tapes (mon-sat) each day full backup, and they pickup daily can they drop off tape1 when they pickup tape 12 basically for me to reuse?

 

[kevnich2]

My recommendation is to do a weekly full tape backup, a weekly full backup to another PC or server on your network and then differential backups nightly that only will backup data that has been changed since the last full backup. This way you are covered in every aspect.

 

[OuiKikUrAzz]

anyone know or tried the Iomega REV? They seem perfect for what i could implement, someone could bring the disk home every night/week (full backups) and it's faster and cheaper than a tape drive + vaulting the tapes. I just dont trust anyone hauling a new tape home every night. Think small business size (<20 employees) 2 managers

 

[netsysadmin]

I had an Iomega rev drive for my home server setup for a while. Its not a bad unit, though it only works under BackupExec as a backup to disk folder. I wouls suggest getting a true tape backup unit and having the tapes vaulted.

PS...what type of business is this and what type of data is stored on the servers. This will make a big difference on how the data needs to be backed up.

John

 

[kevnich2]

Realistically, how much data are you talking about backing up here? Give us a number and we can tell you the best way to back it up. The size of the company makes no difference on the amount of data. A five person company can easily create a hundred gigs of data and a 200 person company can just as easily only create a few hundred mb's of data.

 

[LOFBenson]

Originally posted by: spidey07
It is automated. All they have to do is put the tapes in a box and somebody comes and gets them.

You need to have someone available and trained in how to restore. You also need to test that your tapes and restore procedure actually work by actually doing it every few months at least.

 

[LOFBenson]

Originally posted by: OuiKikUrAzz
anyone know or tried the Iomega REV? They seem perfect for what i could implement, someone could bring the disk home every night/week (full backups) and it's faster and cheaper than a tape drive + vaulting the tapes. I just dont trust anyone hauling a new tape home every night. Think small business size (<20 employees) 2 managers

I don't understand why the medium the data is on would factor into your trust. Hell, it's actually more expensive for someone to misuse the tapes since they would also have to buy their own tape drive. Renting a convieniently located safe or having an employee secure the tapes may be acceptable compromises instead of vaulting them with one of the data protection companies or shipping them to the other branch. It shouldn't take long to grab some quotes and let the owner decide how much risk is acceptable.

 

[marulee]

Mobo with RAID: run one PC to be a file backup.
Storage device: DNS-323 with ext2 partition since your uncle uses the linux on his network.
Or just stay with tapes, pretty sure your uncle can still buy them cheap from ebay.