Nest outdoor camera

[Fanatical Meat]

All I can say is “and so it begins”
Wife & I were gifted one. I’m not crazy about add yet another useless tech device to spy on us even more. Plus I just learned you have to pay $100 for storage videos are saved for 10 days.
No thanks.....

Wife is stuck on it will help recover a stolen package.
I’m stuck on, we’ve never had a package stolen.
Even if we do have a package stolen and this camera gets an image it will be useless.
Here’s how it will go down. Call the Police, have an awkward discussion about what race the thief appeared to be, end description will be something like a tan guy wearing a green hoodie. Police will say thanks we are on it and we will never hear anything about it again.

Rant over

Any AT guys have one of these things and is it useful for anything other than telling google when we are home?

 

[Red Squirrel]

Wonder if there are ways to hack these to turn them into stand alone cameras. I imagine they must be running some kind of Linux based firmware? Not a fan of this cloud based stuff either. Seems it's being pushed so hard by stores and the industry as a whole though. do a search for security camera and it's pretty much the only stuff that comes up with the oddball proper IP PoE ones that are standalone.

 

[BudAshes]

Just tell her a thief stole it off the front porch.

 

[Kaido]

I'm a huge fan of smarthome gear & really want a doorbell camera, but the current implementation seems far too dystopian to me:

Ring’s Hidden Data Let Us Map Amazon's Sprawling Home Surveillance Network

As reporters raced this summer to bring new details of Ring’s law enforcement contracts to light, the home security company, acquired last year by Amazon for a whopping $1 billion, strove to underscore the privacy it had pledged to provide users.

gizmodo.com

Cops Are Giving Amazon's Ring Your Real-Time 911 Caller Data

Amazon-owned home security company Ring is pursuing contracts with police departments that would grant it direct access to real-time emergency dispatch data, Gizmodo has learned.

gizmodo.com

Amazon Ring doorbells exposed home Wi-Fi passwords to hackers | TechCrunch

Security researchers have discovered a vulnerability in Ring doorbells that exposed the passwords for the Wi-Fi networks to which they were connected.

techcrunch.com

Hackers infiltrate Ring cameras in Florida and Tennessee and harass children

Hackers accessed Ring security cameras in Florida and Tennessee over the last few days and communicated with children, raising questions about the safety

www.geekwire.com

What happens when you share Ring footage with police

Videos captured by Amazon's video doorbell company that are handed over to the police are fair game to be shared with other law enforcement agencies.

www.cnet.com

 

[Kaido]

Wonder if there are ways to hack these to turn them into stand alone cameras. I imagine they must be running some kind of Linux based firmware? Not a fan of this cloud based stuff either. Seems it's being pushed so hard by stores and the industry as a whole though. do a search for security camera and it's pretty much the only stuff that comes up with the oddball proper IP PoE ones that are standalone.

A big part of the draw is the convenience of it:

1. You just buy it & install it & it magically works

2. It's already outdoor weatherproof

3. There's no string of hardware to purchase (SoC boards, cameras, wiring & power & video adapters, networking, etc.)

4. There's no software coding required

5. You don't have to setup VPN to your house to view it

6. You don't have to setup a storage target location to keep footage

7. It already has the proper wide-angle lens, nightvision, microphone & speaker for 2-way communication, etc.

8. They already wrote an app to view it on your iPhone or Android smartphone

That's a LOT of stuff to do on your own. It's totally possible, of course, to DIY through a variety of routes...a Raspberry Pi-based system, a Synology-based system, or even a slightly more private cloud system like Arlo. Out of all of the models currently available on the market, I like the Arlo Doorbell cam the best. You can choose an audio model, which can pair with multiple Arlo cameras:

Video Doorbell | Arlo Home Security | Arlo

Arlo Video Doorbell helps you see more at your front door with HD video, motion detection, two-way audio, night vision, a 180-degree viewing angle, and more.

www.arlo.com

Or a video model: totally not sponsored by the NSA

Arlo Video Doorbells with HD Resolution, Night Vision & More

Arlo doorbells allow you to monitor visitors to your home from wherever you are. Learn more about Arlo home security systems.

www.arlo.com

People will brush off just about anything in the name of convenience...their health, their privacy, etc. Just look at drive-through fast-food restaurants like McDonalds...you know it's bad for you, and yet Taco Bell, Burger King, etc. make billions every year. Yeah, so what if the cops & everyone on the Internet can pinpoint your location & see your neighborhood shared video & see a map of the security in your area? It's easy, convenient, and affordably-priced! It used to be that we would only sell out under duress, but now complacency does the trick. I'm not an over-the-top privacy advocate, but all of the recent news with video doorbells gives me a little bit of the creeps...

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah to me those conveniences arn't worth it at all because of the privacy and lack of control. Privacy is only half the equation, control is the other. What happens in 5-10 years when their servers shut down or they stop updating the app etc. There's also zero reason why they can't provide those conveniences but still make it work 100% local without requiring proprietary software.

 

[jonny13]

We have 2 outdoor Nest cams and 3 indoor (to check on the animals while we are away). The indoor ones only turn on when we out of the house. A few years ago we had a breakin and the cops watched all of the video and sent screenshots of their faces around the metro and got the guy in a couple of weeks. Wasn't able to recover anything that was stolen, but he's serving 4.5 years, so I'm happy. Plus, it's been interesting to see all of the wildlife we have in our neighborhood that we've never seen before (fox, raccoons, possum, coyotes, bobcat, neighbors cats, etc).

 

[Fanatical Meat]

We have 2 outdoor Nest cams and 3 indoor (to check on the animals while we are away). The indoor ones only turn on when we out of the house. A few years ago we had a breakin and the cops watched all of the video and sent screenshots of their faces around the metro and got the guy in a couple of weeks. Wasn't able to recover anything that was stolen, but he's serving 4.5 years, so I'm happy. Plus, it's been interesting to see all of the wildlife we have in our neighborhood that we've never seen before (fox, raccoons, possum, coyotes, bobcat, neighbors cats, etc).

Just had a similar conversation with her. I said if it’s for capturing the deer at nigh I’m fine with a wildlife camera. I’ll even remove the sd card, change the batteries and do the technical support.
Nest outdoor cam, I hate the idea, per my previous work experience the odds of having a thief caught is slim and in the event they are caught all your stolen stuff will already be sold to a pawn shop somewhere. She said there would be satisfaction knowing the thief was caught.
@Kaido from one of your links I used “would you be satisfied if ICE arrests an illegal immigrant from our camera” she appears to be thinking of it right now.

We will resolve this impass somehow. Told her I will not install it but my brother-in-law is welcome over to install it. I won’t pay for the subscription and I won’t support or maintain the camera in any way. Security updates for the camera are a non negotiable and she will need to do them promptly when released.

 

[KeithP]

Plus I just learned you have to pay $100 for storage videos are saved for 10 days.

FWIW, that is changing soon. It is getting cheaper.

-KeithP

 

[Kaido]

Just had a similar conversation with her. I said if it’s for capturing the deer at nigh I’m fine with a wildlife camera. I’ll even remove the sd card, change the batteries and do the technical support.
Nest outdoor cam, I hate the idea, per my previous work experience the odds of having a thief caught is slim and in the event they are caught all your stolen stuff will already be sold to a pawn shop somewhere. She said there would be satisfaction knowing the thief was caught.
@Kaido from one of your links I used “would you be satisfied if ICE arrests an illegal immigrant from our camera” she appears to be thinking of it right now.

We will resolve this impass somehow. Told her I will not install it but my brother-in-law is welcome over to install it. I won’t pay for the subscription and I won’t support or maintain the camera in any way. Security updates for the camera are a non negotiable and she will need to do them promptly when released.

I mean, there are a variety of options here. There are wireless baby cams that are locally-operated. There are standalone cameras like Foscam that you can use edge storage with, or local NAS storage, or put something like Blue Iris on your computer & access remotely, and so on. There are Tivo-style boxes like ZMODO & Swann that you can setup a VPN to access, or password-protected secure ports for outside of your network. Lots of options!

I'd really like to do something like a Ring cam, but I just don't trust their network & privacy policies. Then again, I'm already hosed because I have Alexa in every room at this point, lol.

 

[jonny13]

Security updates for the camera are a non negotiable and she will need to do them promptly when released.

Luckily for her, this part is easy and just requires the cameras to be hooked up to the internet. No manual intervention needed and they are always kept up to date. Never had to touch the cameras since I set them up originally.

 

[Kaido]

Luckily for her, this part is easy and just requires the cameras to be hooked up to the internet. No manual intervention needed and they are always kept up to date. Never had to touch the cameras since I set them up originally.

Yeah, and that convenience is one of the big draws - it's pretty much set & forget!

Maybe I should just let the collective take me. 1984, here we come!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I mean, there are a variety of options here. There are wireless baby cams that are locally-operated. There are standalone cameras like Foscam that you can use edge storage with, or local NAS storage, or put something like Blue Iris on your computer & access remotely, and so on. There are Tivo-style boxes like ZMODO & Swann that you can setup a VPN to access, or password-protected secure ports for outside of your network. Lots of options!

I'd really like to do something like a Ring cam, but I just don't trust their network & privacy policies. Then again, I'm already hosed because I have Alexa in every room at this point, lol.

Then we will be heading into a price range & equipment range she won’t like.
I’m like you. I really like the idea of a ring doorbell or nest camera. I don’t like how you have no idea what’s happening with the data, you are opening security holes in your network, there is some monthly fee attached that isn’t guaranteed to increase and you have crap attached to your house that will become obsolete and no longer supported. What tech company is going to be satisfied selling someone one camera over a 30 year period. None, they want you to upgrade.

Regarding alexa we added one last year with the agreement it will be unplugged when not in use.
It has never been unplugged, now she wants the google speaker thing working too. Relationships can be so difficult.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Luckily for her, this part is easy and just requires the cameras to be hooked up to the internet. No manual intervention needed and they are always kept up to date. Never had to touch the cameras since I set them up originally.

Oh I know....my wife on the other hand.....

 

[zinfamous]

I'm a huge fan of smarthome gear & really want a doorbell camera, but the current implementation seems far too dystopian to me:

Ring’s Hidden Data Let Us Map Amazon's Sprawling Home Surveillance Network

As reporters raced this summer to bring new details of Ring’s law enforcement contracts to light, the home security company, acquired last year by Amazon for a whopping $1 billion, strove to underscore the privacy it had pledged to provide users.

gizmodo.com

Cops Are Giving Amazon's Ring Your Real-Time 911 Caller Data

Amazon-owned home security company Ring is pursuing contracts with police departments that would grant it direct access to real-time emergency dispatch data, Gizmodo has learned.

gizmodo.com

Amazon Ring doorbells exposed home Wi-Fi passwords to hackers | TechCrunch

Security researchers have discovered a vulnerability in Ring doorbells that exposed the passwords for the Wi-Fi networks to which they were connected.

techcrunch.com

Hackers infiltrate Ring cameras in Florida and Tennessee and harass children

Hackers accessed Ring security cameras in Florida and Tennessee over the last few days and communicated with children, raising questions about the safety

www.geekwire.com

What happens when you share Ring footage with police

Videos captured by Amazon's video doorbell company that are handed over to the police are fair game to be shared with other law enforcement agencies.

www.cnet.com

It's only ever going to be dystopian in nature, which is why I can never support any of these anti-solutions coming out of SV.

 

[purbeast0]

Just had a similar conversation with her. I said if it’s for capturing the deer at nigh I’m fine with a wildlife camera. I’ll even remove the sd card, change the batteries and do the technical support.
Nest outdoor cam, I hate the idea, per my previous work experience the odds of having a thief caught is slim and in the event they are caught all your stolen stuff will already be sold to a pawn shop somewhere. She said there would be satisfaction knowing the thief was caught.
@Kaido from one of your links I used “would you be satisfied if ICE arrests an illegal immigrant from our camera” she appears to be thinking of it right now.

We will resolve this impass somehow. Told her I will not install it but my brother-in-law is welcome over to install it. I won’t pay for the subscription and I won’t support or maintain the camera in any way. Security updates for the camera are a non negotiable and she will need to do them promptly when released.

If you make the cameras known and in plain view of people, then maybe that thief who is going to steal stuff gets scared off and doesn't even try to steal stuff.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If you make the cameras known and in plain view of people, then maybe that thief who is going to steal stuff gets scared off and doesn't even try to steal stuff.

I’ll put up a fake camera and achieve the same thing without paying $100 per year plus handing over all sorts of data.

Defiant Home Security Indoor/Outdoor Fake Dome Surveillance Camera THD-ISCD - The Home Depot

By connecting SkyLink Internet Hub to a wireless internet router, the security system coordinates the activities of all receivers and sensors with the help of the iOS smartphone application. With SkyLink

www.homedepot.com

 

[Kaido]

It's only ever going to be dystopian in nature, which is why I can never support any of these anti-solutions coming out of SV.

I mean, marketers can identify most people with only 3 or 4 pieces of information these days, so we're not really all that private, you know? Even with a VPN, your online fingerprint is spread out across multiple tracking databases, so it's kind of difficult to be truly off-the-grid these days:

Websites Can Probably Guess Your Identity With Three Basic Data Points

Websites and internet service providers have found ways to track user activity that aren’t detectable by users, which means there is no transparency. The Technical Architecture Group writes, …

observer.com

Privacy challenges: Just four vague pieces of info can identify you, and your credit card

Just four fairly vague pieces of information -- the dates and locations of four purchases -- are enough to identify 90 percent of the people in a data set recording three months of credit-card transactions by 1.1 million users. If someone had copies of just three of your recent receipts -- or...

www.sciencedaily.com

This TED Talk was released 7 years ago...imagine what the world of online tracking is like today:

You can take a basic privacy test here:

Privacy Test & Analyzer: See what information websites know about you

You might be surprised just what information a website knows about you. This can include your browser, other websites you are logged in to and even your IP address.

privacy.net

Check out just how accurately they can pinpoint your location here: (assuming you don't have a VPN installed)

Identify and Locate my IP address | MaxMind

Use our GeoIP® online IP lookup tool to instantly identify your IP address and access IP geolocation and network data associated with it.

www.maxmind.com

However, it's not just about your lack of privacy, but also who has access to that information. Facebook showing you ads about stuff you've only thought about & never even spoken about or searched for is one thing, but giving police & the general public location data & recorded video feeds of your surrounding area is another. But no one really seems to care because everyone is buying the cameras & I want one to, soooooo...lol

 

[Kaido]

I’ll put up a fake camera and achieve the same thing without paying $100 per year plus handing over all sorts of data.

Defiant Home Security Indoor/Outdoor Fake Dome Surveillance Camera THD-ISCD - The Home Depot

By connecting SkyLink Internet Hub to a wireless internet router, the security system coordinates the activities of all receivers and sensors with the help of the iOS smartphone application. With SkyLink

www.homedepot.com

If you saw the latest Mark Rober glitter-bomb video, the skilled porch pirates are quite adept at hiding their faces, and walk from house to house instead of using their car so that their license plate doesn't get recorded.

I got my brother a Google Home Mini as a present & it got porch-picked after delivery...Amazon sends you photos of the delivery now, so I could see it at his door, but by the time he got home, it was gone! Unfortunately, he doesn't have a camera, but still, super lame!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

If you saw the latest Mark Rober glitter-bomb video, the skilled porch pirates are quite adept at hiding their faces, and walk from house to house instead of using their car so that their license plate doesn't get recorded.

I got my brother a Google Home Mini as a present & it got porch-picked after delivery...Amazon sends you photos of the delivery now, so I could see it at his door, but by the time he got home, it was gone! Unfortunately, he doesn't have a camera, but still, super lame!

Exactly why these cameras are close to useless to prevent boxes from being stolen.

 

[JEDIYoda]

What kind of data are you worried about giving up?
That is really just another excuse...…..
So lets see thiefs can know when your home or gone? Well duh a good thief will be already watching your home and making plans to target it.....
You only give up what data you choose to give up!
The Police need a warrant to compel you to give up all the data on the camera.....
For every abuse of data there is an opposite where data helped catch the thief!
The only real excuse you have is the $100 you have to spend.
Seems to mew you could get a camera that will watch the front porch that feeds the image directly to the computer of your choice for storage as opposed to the cloud or something else.....

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What kind of data are you worried about giving up?
That is really just another excuse...…..
So lets see thiefs can know when your home or gone? Well duh a good thief will be already watching your home and making plans to target it.....
You only give up what data you choose to give up!
The Police need a warrant to compel you to give up all the data on the camera.....
For every abuse of data there is an opposite where data helped catch the thief!
The only real excuse you have is the $100 you have to spend.
Seems to mew you could get a camera that will watch the front porch that feeds the image directly to the computer of your choice for storage as opposed to the cloud or something else.....

And those privacy agreements will never change? You’ve read the current privacy agreement and can say with a certainty how the data will be used?
Yes my main point is the $100 per year to have the damn thing work
And it’s pointless bs thing to attach to the house plus use bandwidth for.
Been nearly 9 years in the house nothing has been stolen. Been 17(?) years in this city and nothing has been stolen. Only exception is at our last rental one night someone stole the change from my change cup in my car. I’d put the value at $3-$6.00

 

[JEDIYoda]

And those privacy agreements will never change? You’ve read the current privacy agreement and can say with a certainty how the data will be used?
Yes my main point is the $100 per year to have the damn thing work
And it’s pointless bs thing to attach to the house plus use bandwidth for.
Been nearly 9 years in the house nothing has been stolen. Been 17(?) years in this city and nothing has been stolen. Only exception is at our last rental one night someone stole the change from my change cup in my car. I’d put the value at $3-$6.00

It’s the user’s fault if a Ring camera violates your privacy, Amazon says

The company’s answers to congressional questioning only earned it more questions…

arstechnica.com

According to this article.....it uses the word REQUEST several times, which means the police doo not have access to youre information without your permission and as such their privacy agreement basically says the same thing. But note -- once you give your permission to give the police a portion of a video RINg is not responsible for what is done with that video or information taken from that video!!

 

[Fanatical Meat]

It’s the user’s fault if a Ring camera violates your privacy, Amazon says

The company’s answers to congressional questioning only earned it more questions…

arstechnica.com

According to this article.....it uses the word REQUEST several times, which means the police doo not have access to youre information without your permission and as such their privacy agreement basically says the same thing. But note -- once you give your permission to give the police a portion of a video RINg is not responsible for what is done with that video or information taken from that video!!

no I totally get that but what about the cloud data google is holding on to. What happens with that, where does it say this agreement is in perpetuity and data will not be shared.

 

[JEDIYoda]

no I totally get that but what about the cloud data google is holding on to. What happens with that, where does it say this agreement is in perpetuity and data will not be shared.

You know I look at data this way -- where does it ever say data will not be shared and if it does say that data will not be shared can you be 100% certain that your data is not being shared in one form or another??
There comes a point when you just have to trust what you are reading and not read anything more or less into what is being said!
With your concern about data I am suprised you are even on the internet! I am not being mean, I am I believe just beuing practical!
Good luck whichever way you mgo!!