Negotiating on a used car

[olds]

All your points are spot-on. I'm also sure salespeople play tons of games to try and whittle out more money for themselves. That's their job.

Perhaps my original point has gotten a little confused. I have had good luck saying "I will buy this car for this amount of money, can you do it?" It might not be the absolute, bottom-line, deal-of-the-century, but I get the car I want at the price I want and I don't have to dick around and waste time haggling.

I didn't intend to imply that handing someone an actual stack of bills is better or worse than a bank check, or even dealer financing.

Another technique (not so applicable with used cars, but it could be adapted) is to get silent bids. Call up a number of dealers, tell them "I am going to buy X car this weekend, I am asking Y dealers for silent bids, give me your best OTD price in writting and I am going to pick the lowest." Of course they reply "well, what if I get beat by $50? I would easily knock another $100 off to get the sale" then you say "then you weren't giving me your best price." I have heard of very good results using this method.

You're right. Know what it's worth and what you want to spend then making an offer is a great way to get a car. As long as your offer is realistic. And you never know if you don't ask/offer.

 

[Fritzo]

You're right. Know what it's worth and what you want to spend then making an offer is a great way to get a car. As long as your offer is realistic. And you never know if you don't ask/offer.

You can also shut out the deal with a ridiculous low ball offer. When buying our van a few years back a salesman kicked someone out for offering $8000 below the asking price and acting firm about it. The exchange was something like

"How about this price?"
"Are you serious? I can't do that."
"Oh come on. You want this sale, right?"
"I think we're done here. Have a good day."

 

[Gillbot]

You can also shut out the deal with a ridiculous low ball offer. When buying our van a few years back a salesman kicked someone out for offering $8000 below the asking price and acting firm about it. The exchange was something like

"How about this price?"
"Are you serious? I can't do that."
"Oh come on. You want this sale, right?"
"I think we're done here. Have a good day."

I've had that happen a few times. Sometimes they just can't take below a certain price for whatever reason.

 

[Tweak155]

You can also shut out the deal with a ridiculous low ball offer. When buying our van a few years back a salesman kicked someone out for offering $8000 below the asking price and acting firm about it. The exchange was something like

"How about this price?"
"Are you serious? I can't do that."
"Oh come on. You want this sale, right?"
"I think we're done here. Have a good day."

I imagine they only mark up that high on some real nice vehicles. For vehicles under $30k, the chances of them having an $8k mark up is low. My guess is its closer to $3-$4k average.

 

[marvdmartian]

Just like today, when I saw a local Ford dealer advertising a 2003 Jeep Wrangler (Sport) on Craigslist. Went to their website, it looks nice, but it has just under 108,000 miles on it, and they're asking $11,260.

I e-mailed them, and told them I'd give them that price if it included TT&L. The internet manager writes me back, and says that price doesn't include TT&L (no sh*t, Sherlock!), and that if I check cars.com and autotrader.com, I'll see that the asking price for that Jeep should be higher than what they're asking.

I wrote back, and told him that while I understood all that, it was my impression that the only time auto dealers quote places like that, or KBB, is when they're SELLING a used car.....but that if I walked in there with a trade, and quoted those sources, I'd be dismissed by them. I told him that I'd made an offer, and this was called "dickering", so he was free to give me a counter-offer.

What he probably hoped, is that I hadn't done my homework. KBB says that that Jeep, with those miles, is worth about $150 more than that, for dealer retail price, if it's in PERFECT condition (and how many 10 year old Jeeps are??). They also point out that the private party price would be $9000 to $9500 (for very good to excellent condition), and the trade-in price is somewhere down around $8000.

TT&L on their asking price would probably come out to about $1000, so I don't feel bad by offering less than their "deal" of an internet price.

 

[kitatech]

What he probably hoped, is that I hadn't done my homework. KBB says that that Jeep, with those miles, is worth about $150 more than that, for dealer retail price, if it's in PERFECT condition (and how many 10 year old Jeeps are??). They also point out that the private party price would be $9000 to $9500 (for very good to excellent condition), and the trade-in price is somewhere down around $8000.

This reminds me....when taking the car for a test drive, engage the salesperson....ask what the dealer did to prep the car for sale...ask to see the work order...

When I got behind the wheel of my Camry it was clear that the clutch was soooo smoooooth and the salesman told me that they had to install a completely new clutch system...plates, bearings, cylinders...at a "cost" of $2,400...

Well, that told me two things...I was getting a new dealer installed clutch, yes, great, yea!....but also this...
The dealer likely reduced the value of the car to the previous owner by most of that $2,400...I can hear it now...."Ma'am, this is a beautiful car, inside and out, but we have to put in a new clutch before we can put in on the lot and that's gonna cost us over $2k....so we have to deduct that from "excellent" trade-in condition value..."

In my mind that told me that the dealer paid a lot less for the car than the car's condition now...and so my offer was $1500 under the lowest advertised price and they countered with a $500 bump to that offer, a bump I jumped at. Trade-in value AND a new clutch....YES!

 

[olds]

This reminds me....when taking the car for a test drive, engage the salesperson....ask what the dealer did to prep the car for sale...ask to see the work order...

When I got behind the wheel of my Camry it was clear that the clutch was soooo smoooooth and the salesman told me that they had to install a completely new clutch system...plates, bearings, cylinders...at a "cost" of $2,400...

Well, that told me two things...I was getting a new dealer installed clutch, yes, great, yea!....but also this...
The dealer likely reduced the value of the car to the previous owner by most of that $2,400...I can hear it now...."Ma'am, this is a beautiful car, inside and out, but we have to put in a new clutch before we can put in on the lot and that's gonna cost us over $2k....so we have to deduct that from "excellent" trade-in condition value..."

In my mind that told me that the dealer paid a lot less for the car than the car's condition now...and so my offer was $1500 under the lowest advertised price and they countered with a $500 bump to that offer, a bump I jumped at. Trade-in value AND a new clutch....YES!

$2400 is probably what they quote for the work. But it probably cost them $1000 or so. So they had $1400 wiggle room.
They made money, you saved money and you got a new clutch. Everybody won.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

Nothing worked for me recently, but it didn't help the model car I was after is out of production for the US officially as of earlier this year (Audi A3 hatch), and becoming more and more difficult to find. But at least the dealers I spoke to were pretty straight up about their prices + CPO cost. I couldn't haggle anything more than $2K of list price for any 2012 models scattered about the country. I did my research, compared prices, and how long they were taking to sell. And based off the research, I knew I didn't have much haggle room. In the grand scheme, I really don't care, especially since I found one exactly how I wanted. The extra 10% (if it were even possible) is nothing compared to what I'll make in my life time. Now I just need to take good care of it.

 

[kitatech]

$2400 is probably what they quote for the work. But it probably cost them $1000 or so. So they had $1400 wiggle room.
They made money, you saved money and you got a new clutch. Everybody won.

ExACTLY what I thought...and why they dropped the price so quickly....that and the fact that they were afraid of being stuck with a Camry stick...I got lucky...maybe they did too...

 

[debian0001]

Just like today, when I saw a local Ford dealer advertising a 2003 Jeep Wrangler (Sport) on Craigslist. Went to their website, it looks nice, but it has just under 108,000 miles on it, and they're asking $11,260.

I e-mailed them, and told them I'd give them that price if it included TT&L. The internet manager writes me back, and says that price doesn't include TT&L (no sh*t, Sherlock!), and that if I check cars.com and autotrader.com, I'll see that the asking price for that Jeep should be higher than what they're asking.

I wrote back, and told him that while I understood all that, it was my impression that the only time auto dealers quote places like that, or KBB, is when they're SELLING a used car.....but that if I walked in there with a trade, and quoted those sources, I'd be dismissed by them. I told him that I'd made an offer, and this was called "dickering", so he was free to give me a counter-offer.

What he probably hoped, is that I hadn't done my homework. KBB says that that Jeep, with those miles, is worth about $150 more than that, for dealer retail price, if it's in PERFECT condition (and how many 10 year old Jeeps are??). They also point out that the private party price would be $9000 to $9500 (for very good to excellent condition), and the trade-in price is somewhere down around $8000.

TT&L on their asking price would probably come out to about $1000, so I don't feel bad by offering less than their "deal" of an internet price.

I think 11,000 for a 10 year old Jeep is way overpriced haha.

 

[marvdmartian]

I think 11,000 for a 10 year old Jeep is way overpriced haha.

Junior Members aren't allowed to think.....check the bylaws.

Just like today, when I saw a local Ford dealer advertising a 2003 Jeep Wrangler (Sport) on Craigslist. Went to their website, it looks nice, but it has just under 108,000 miles on it, and they're asking $11,260.....

Well, talked to my Jeep lovin' buddy, who educated me on "bump steer" (aka "death wobble"), and also clued me in on a few more things to watch for, if I'm looking at buying a used Jeep.

Also did some more research, and looked up/found the vehicle on the Auto Trader website, which offered a free CarFax report. Heck, why not??

Found out that the vehicle was purchased in CA, in 2003 (new), the owner moved to NC, and sold/traded it to the dealer there in 2009.....where it sat, until last year, when it was purchased, and sold/traded again this year, locally.

That rang a HUGE alarm in my head, as WHY would a perfectly good Jeep sit on a dealer lot for THREE YEARS, unsold?? Even if they wanted more than it was worth, dealerships live on car sales, NOT cars sitting on their lots for a long time. Started wondering if someone finally got suckered into buying it, then realized there was something seriously wrong with it, so traded it quick for another vehicle??

The whole thing just felt too hinky to me, so I e-mailed the dealer this morning, and told him thanks, but no thanks. There might not be anything wrong with it, but I'm not knowledgeable enough about Jeeps to take that chance.

Oh, and debian0001, do some research on used Jeep prices, and you'll see that they hold their value really well, for a long time.

 

[Tweak155]

<snip>
Oh, and debian0001, do some research on used Jeep prices, and you'll see that they hold their value really well, for a long time.

True story. I bought a used JGC for $15k and 1.5 years later traded it in for $13.2k and didn't even have to haggle. Unreal.

 

[sgrinavi]

Cash is King. I bought a used car a dealership had listed at $8500 for $6500 by writing them a check. That's about 75% of the listed price. You're percentage is higher than that.

I know $16000 is quite a bit more cash, but if you have it what is there to lose?

Most dealers make money on the financing, so no, cash is not king.

OP - lots of good advice already, I would add to do some research and figure out what the local going price is for the vehicle you want (with adjustments for mileage/condition) and make an offer that's somewhat lower than that. Don't low-ball or they wont take you seriously. Your best weapon is to walk away.

 

[dlock13]

This thread makes me want to try and buy a used car for cheap.

 

[ElFenix]

Most dealers make money on the financing, so no, cash is not king.

financing is risky.

 

[Gillbot]

Most dealers make money on the financing, so no, cash is not king.

Cash is always king, less of a paper trail.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Cash is always king, less of a paper trail.

Funny I was offered the lowest prices from two separate Honda dealerships only if I financed it through Honda. I was even told that they get a kickback if you finance it which enables them to sell it to me for X price. If paid for in cash then the price goes up.

They also prefer financing as they can jack the rate up and they get more back the higher the interest rate you'll accept.

 

[Gillbot]

Funny I was offered the lowest prices from two separate Honda dealerships only if I financed it through Honda. I was even told that they get a kickback if you finance it which enables them to sell it to me for X price. If paid for in cash then the price goes up.

They also prefer financing as they can jack the rate up and they get more back the higher the interest rate you'll accept.

That's why most guides tell you to haggle over the price based on a cash sale, then go for financing after a price has been determined.

In reality, you aren't getting a better price if they are making more in interest over the term of the loan. The only way that doesn't matter is with 0% financing.

 

[sgrinavi]

Cash is always king, less of a paper trail.

You must be shopping at some pretty shady dealerships

Funny I was offered the lowest prices from two separate Honda dealerships only if I financed it through Honda. I was even told that they get a kickback if you finance it which enables them to sell it to me for X price. If paid for in cash then the price goes up.

They also prefer financing as they can jack the rate up and they get more back the higher the interest rate you'll accept.

Exactly

 

[Gillbot]

You must be shopping at some pretty shady dealerships



Exactly

No, they all work the same. They either make their money up front in the sale price or on the back end with interest. That's why you negotiate on the price first, then when they try to pull a fast one on financing, you can tell what they are doing.

 

[sgrinavi]

No, they all work the same. They either make their money up front in the sale price or on the back end with interest. That's why you negotiate on the price first, then when they try to pull a fast one on financing, you can tell what they are doing.

Playing games with the dealer does not make cash "king" as described by Via in his post. Via inferred that he offered cash and the dealer automatically dropped to his knees and gave him a hummer for blessing him with a cash payment.

I can see where your method as described above may have merit, but it has nothing to do with a paper trail as previously mentioned and, again, does not make cash "king".

I don't discuss payment until the deal is done.

 

[Gillbot]

Playing games with the dealer does not make cash "king" as described by Via in his post. Via inferred that he offered cash and the dealer automatically dropped to his knees and gave him a hummer for blessing him with a cash payment.

I can see where your method as described above may have merit, but it has nothing to do with a paper trail as previously mentioned and, again, does not make cash "king".

I don't discuss payment until the deal is done.

I did the same thing as mentioned, offered to pay cash and instantly the price dropped so I see his point.

 

[Via]

Playing games with the dealer does not make cash "king" as described by Via in his post. Via inferred that he offered cash and the dealer automatically dropped to his knees and gave him a hummer for blessing him with a cash payment.

I can see where your method as described above may have merit, but it has nothing to do with a paper trail as previously mentioned and, again, does not make cash "king".

I don't discuss payment until the deal is done.

Why you gotta go twist my post like that? Why be a dick?

And yes - cash IS king in this world. You go ANYWHERE with a large amount of cash and you're going to get seller's attention and make them more pliable. It doesn't matter what it is - a car, a boat, a house etc etc etc

Do you REALLY think someone financing a $7500 car sale (for a car you probably bought for $4800 at auction) is a great risk, a 100% fool-proof bet? Or do you think taking $6500 in cash is safer?

 

[sgrinavi]

Why you gotta go twist my post like that? Why be a dick?

And yes - cash IS king in this world. You go ANYWHERE with a large amount of cash and you're going to get seller's attention and make them more pliable. It doesn't matter what it is - a car, a boat, a house etc etc etc

Do you REALLY think someone financing a $7500 car sale (for a car you probably bought for $4800 at auction) is a great risk, a 100% fool-proof bet? Or do you think taking $6500 in cash is safer?

What are you talking about twisting your post? I paraphrased to make a point. Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

I'm really not sure where you guys are buying cars or if you're just making shit up, but I've probably bought 30 cars at reputable dealerships over the years and not once has a deal been improved because I offered to pay cash.

Risk? Unless you're going to some buy-here-pay-here sham stop the dealer does not finance the car himself and could care less about the risk.

Dealers get paid on the back end by the finance company for sending business along - period. They get more if they can sucker you into a higher interest rate.

 

[Via]

What are you talking about twisting your post? I paraphrased to make a point. Sorry if it hurt your feelings.

I'm really not sure where you guys are buying cars or if you're just making shit up, but I've probably bought 30 cars at reputable dealerships over the years and not once has a deal been improved because I offered to pay cash.

Risk? Unless you're going to some buy-here-pay-here sham stop the dealer does not finance the car himself and could care less about the risk.

Dealers get paid on the back end by the finance company for sending business along - period. They get more if they can sucker you into a higher interest rate.

You've bought 30 cars at dealerships? And to top it off, you've never made any cash deals? I smell some serious bullshit here, but that's not what this subforum is for, and I will respectfully bow out of this thread.

No sense in derailing a thread to argue with an internet wiseguy.